20 Years Since 9/11

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Re: 20 Years Since 9/11

Postby Handsome B. Wonderful » Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:35 pm

I don't know if this has been mentioned before but the plans of the Columbine shooters was to, after their shooting spree, hijack a jet airliner and crash it into New York city. I always found that interesting, so the idea of "planes as missiles" was floating around in the ether.
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Re: 20 Years Since 9/11

Postby Marionumber1 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:05 pm

I always found that interesting too. There are actually a surprising number of Colorado connections, including that one, lurking in the background of the 9/11 operation. Sharing some prior RI posts of mine on that subject:

Marionumber1 » Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:14 pm wrote:Someone looking into the JonBenet Ramsey case has discovered a photo of her containing a person who looks an awful lot like Ghislaine Maxwell: https://twitter.com/humanvibration/status/1214426831434108928 This has some very curious implications if it is indeed her. On the Twitter thread, it's also pointed out that Hal Haddon's powerful Denver law firm, which defended the Ramsey family in the aftermath of JonBenet's murder, has in fact been defending Ghislaine in Virginia Giuffre's lawsuit against her as well. I've studied the nexus between the JonBenet murder, Colorado pedophile rings, the 9/11 attacks, and Jeffrey Epstein for a while, and there is a lot of interesting material to unpack.

Yet another one of Haddon's clients was Homaidan al-Turki, the Saudi national living in Denver who was arrested for keeping his maid as a sex slave, and turned out to be in contact with the Hamburg cell (Mohammed Atta, Marwan al-Shehhi, et. al.) that was involved in 9/11. Haddon was helping to negotiate al-Turki's transfer back to Saudi Arabia, which Colorado Department of Corrections chief Tom Clements refused; about a week later he was killed by Evan Ebel, the son of John Hickenlooper's lifelong friend from the oil business and a member of the white supremacist 211 crew. Evidence showed that the Clements was a conspiracy orchestrated at a high level of the 211 crew, and given the fact that other targets on Ebel's hit list had no link to the gang but were involved in al-Turki's case, there has been suspicion that al-Turki or defenders of his put out a hit on Clements through the 211 crew.

The 211 crew also surfaces as connected to a high-level Colorado pedophile ring that Jonathan Elinoff was investigating, overseen by former Arapahoe County Sheriff Pat Sullivan. Elinoff stumbled onto this ring while investigating Delmart Vreeland, the man in a Canadian prison cell who claimed to be an Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI) agent and wrote a note predicting 9/11 before it happened. Vreeland was later arrested in Colorado on child prostitution charges, and before he did, Jeff Wells posted here that Vreeland had alluded to a life history of abuse much like that of the Franklin scandal. According to Elinoff, shortly after he began investigating Vreeland (and had someone slam into his car on the driver's side), Colorado and Nebraska attorney Tom Henry -- who he later found out was Vreeland's attorney -- worked to associate him with white supremacists such as Peter VanVolkinburg and Mark Seibel who were linked to the 211 crew, unstable people who could have put his credibility and life in danger. Elinoff later came to suspect that Henry was framing his own clients like VanVolkinburg, with the help of his paralegal who was the night manager at the Ramada Inn where many illicit sexual encounters by Sullivan took place and many politicians and businessmen frequented.

Ultimately, Elinoff came to conclude that this pedophile ring he had unearthed was a massive human compromise operation used to blackmail high-level government and military officials into compliance with the 9/11 plot. Some of those involved with the human trafficking were, according to him, Russian mobsters working under Viktor Kozeny. Kozeny was an international criminal behind multiple financial frauds in the former Soviet Union. In December 1997 (a year after JonBenet's death), he threw a glitzy party at his home in Aspen CO -- where Fleet White Sr., an oilman and accused pedophile who was the father of John Ramsey's then-best friend Fleet White Jr., lived -- inviting members of Aspen high society such as actress Goldie Hawn (a friend of Fleet White Sr. who appeared in a photo with him and attended several of his New Year's parties in Aspen). At this party he also began to recruit people for a privatization scheme of Azerbaijan's state-owned oil company SOCAR. People who became involved with this scheme included businessman Frederic Bourke (Kozeny's neighbor in Aspen), former military intelligence officer and Senate majority leader George Mitchell, and noted CIA front American International Group (AIG) with Kozeny's contact apparently being Frank Wisner Jr., the son of the famous CIA officer. Perhaps it is just a coincidence that two of the Kozeny associates in this scheme were Epstein associates too -- Bourke appears in Epstein's black book and Mitchell was accused by Virginia Roberts of being a child rapist -- or that Kozeny, like Epstein, enjoyed a meteoric rise in the financial industry from a young age despite having no real qualifications and then ended up connected with intelligence as well as a pedophilic blackmail ring.

Kozeny's other claim to fame was unearthed by Daniel Hopsicker: employing as a personal pilot Wolfgang Bohringer, who was Mohammed Atta's best friend while attending "flight training" in Venice FL. Of course, Atta's real objective in Venice probably wasn't learning how to fly. Hopsicker has documented extensively that the Huffman Aviation flight school run by Rudi Dekkers with the financing of Wally Hilliard was more likely in the business of drug trafficking. Another one of Hilliard's aviation businesses was making weekly heroin flights from Venezuela to Russian mob enclave Brighton Beach NY before they were busted in July 2000 at the Orlando airport. Dekkers later ended up being arrested in 2012 for transporting cocaine and heroin in his plane, and had told an informant that "he was involved in narcotics transportation via private aircraft and that he has flown narcotics and U.S. currency previously without any problems". Hilliard has longtime US intelligence ties dating back to his days as a Wisconsin health insurance executive when his company was bought out by former OSS operative and Henry Kissinger pal Myron DuBain. The real activity of Atta, al-Shehhi, and Ziad Jarrah in Venice was most likely a CIA drug running operation with the Russian Mafia, and Kozeny naturally fits into such a milieu. Also interesting is that Bohringer now operates a yacht business in the Virgin Islands in St. Thomas, where many of Epstein's businesses were incorporated, and has allegedly held diving expeditions off the coast of Little St. James.

Since we were talking about Pat Sullivan, Colorado pedophile rings, and 9/11, I suppose we also can't forget how Sullivan once said "I firmly believe there is no cover-up in the Columbine investigation" after his deputy told conflicting stories about his actions at Columbine High School during the 1999 shooting. There is a good amount of evidence pointing to additional shooters besides Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold -- with numerous corroborating witnesses not just mentioning other perpetrators but all agreeing on their identity -- the boys' involvement in a group with satanic and white supremacist overtones called the Trench Coat Mafia, and some indications that Harris may have been subjected to mind control by his military father Wayne Harris who early news accounts said continued living at Plattsburgh Air Force Base until 1996, even though the base had closed years earlier. These associations make it quite odd that Eric Harris wrote in his diary about plans to hijack a plane and crash it into New York City, over 2 years before the 9/11 attacks. Making things more odd is that his father Wayne worked at "Flight Safety Services Corp., which has contracts with the Defense Department for several programs that include computer-driven electronic flight simulations". FlightSafety Services was purchased by FlightSafety International, which operated another flight school in Vero Beach FL where multiple hijackers trained.

And so we go round and round through the tangled mess of associations between spooks, pedophile rings, organized crime, and terror. I guess that's parapolitics for you.


Marionumber1 » Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:32 am wrote:Thank you, cptmarginal. A lot of these major towns in Texas tend to be spook central. I do have 6 pages from the end of the dossier going into more detail about the White Eagle group that Paul Schultz and his cult was part of:

[IMAGES SNIPPED OUT - GO TO THE LINK OR THE ORIGINAL RI POST]

All of this is circa 1996 and 1997, which especially makes me wonder... The involvement of "high-level rogue intelligence agents" in the US, plus "foreign terrorist operatives, particularly from Germany and Russia", Russian mafia members, and Middle Eastern terrorists? Stockpiles of weapons, including planes, for their terrorist attacks? Planned terror attacks (including bioterrorism) on New York City? Major presence in Douglas County CO (home to Sedalia), where Delmart Vreeland was arrested on child prostitution charges in 2004? A suspected connection to the Oklahoma City bombing?

Is it just me or does this sound a lot like the web of spooks, Islamists, and mobsters documented by investigators like Daniel Hopsicker, Sander Hicks, and Jonathan Elinoff as being behind the 9/11 attacks?
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Re: 20 Years Since 9/11

Postby lucky » Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:17 am

As Hitler said...the bigger the lie the easier it is to fool people. Most folk with half a brain know that the 'official ' version of events is nonsense and that a false flag attack of some description took place. I have given up trying to convince others to this truth and also like most am impotent in bringing the fuckers who set it up to justice.
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Re: 20 Years Since 9/11

Postby 8bitagent » Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:03 am

To toot my own horn, I do feel my thread I made a decade ago on here is one the deepest dive into the 9/11 event online of more obscure elements that has mainstream news articles to back it up even the wildest material.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=35408

Waking up and seeing the mainstream news cover this "Biden authorizes the Justice Department to unseal previously classified documents linking Saudi Arabia to 9/11" is beyond yawn. 1) The Democrat sycophants on MSNBCIA now worship George W Bush and the neocons and even have them as MSNBC hosts and regular guests 2) Noone cares anymore. Joe Bidens last act in Afghanistan was getting 13 marines needlessly killed/over 200 Afghans killed and then drone striking a food aid worker and his 8 kids and claiming he was "ISIS K".

When I started reading Jeff Well's RI blog in 2005, and posting on here in 2007, I didn't realize how far away 20 years after "The Big Wedding" would be. Yet here we are. 20th annv of 9/11, and it just feels like meh. Just look at George W Bush's speech in Shanksville and the fawning reception by the MSNBCNN media to see how far we've come.
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Re: 20 Years Since 9/11

Postby mentalgongfu2 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:20 am

8bitagent » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:03 am wrote:To toot my own horn, I do feel my thread I made a decade ago on here is one the deepest dive into the 9/11 event online of more obscure elements that has mainstream news articles to back it up even the wildest material.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=35408

Waking up and seeing the mainstream news cover this "Biden authorizes the Justice Department to unseal previously classified documents linking Saudi Arabia to 9/11" is beyond yawn. 1) The Democrat sycophants on MSNBCIA now worship George W Bush and the neocons and even have them as MSNBC hosts and regular guests 2) Noone cares anymore. Joe Bidens last act in Afghanistan was getting 13 marines needlessly killed/over 200 Afghans killed and then drone striking a food aid worker and his 8 kids and claiming he was "ISIS K".

When I started reading Jeff Well's RI blog in 2005, and posting on here in 2007, I didn't realize how far away 20 years after "The Big Wedding" would be. Yet here we are. 20th annv of 9/11, and it just feels like meh. Just look at George W Bush's speech in Shanksville and the fawning reception by the MSNBCNN media to see how far we've come.


No argument on the main points, but didn't the Fox News-iverse make this possible by shifting the Overton window wide to the right? I've got no defense for CNN or MSNBC, but where does the other big pro-war Network fit into your cosmology?
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Re: 20 Years Since 9/11

Postby PufPuf93 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:45 pm

mentalgongfu2 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:20 am wrote:
8bitagent » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:03 am wrote:To toot my own horn, I do feel my thread I made a decade ago on here is one the deepest dive into the 9/11 event online of more obscure elements that has mainstream news articles to back it up even the wildest material.
http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board2/ ... =8&t=35408

Waking up and seeing the mainstream news cover this "Biden authorizes the Justice Department to unseal previously classified documents linking Saudi Arabia to 9/11" is beyond yawn. 1) The Democrat sycophants on MSNBCIA now worship George W Bush and the neocons and even have them as MSNBC hosts and regular guests 2) Noone cares anymore. Joe Bidens last act in Afghanistan was getting 13 marines needlessly killed/over 200 Afghans killed and then drone striking a food aid worker and his 8 kids and claiming he was "ISIS K".

When I started reading Jeff Well's RI blog in 2005, and posting on here in 2007, I didn't realize how far away 20 years after "The Big Wedding" would be. Yet here we are. 20th annv of 9/11, and it just feels like meh. Just look at George W Bush's speech in Shanksville and the fawning reception by the MSNBCNN media to see how far we've come.


No argument on the main points, but didn't the Fox News-iverse make this possible by shifting the Overton window wide to the right? I've got no defense for CNN or MSNBC, but where does the other big pro-war Network fit into your cosmology?


IMHO Fox. CNN, and MSNBC are all subsidiaries of the MIC, just different flavors to target different markets. CNN and MSNBC are heavier to facts that Fox but really just define the span of socially acceptable discussion of events and grooming the population for what ever. I have soured on Maddow even. Basically she just tells listeners when it is OK to say your hair is on fire, but nothing ever seems to follow the address what caused the fire and there is new "news" the next day. The shows are more gossip than informative of events though there are kernels of fact. What I am saying is that Fox-CNN-MSNBC are essentially propaganda shows to manipulate us.
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Re: 20 Years Since 9/11

Postby conniption » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:10 am

off-guardian

WATCH: COVID19/11 – Catherine Austin Fitts Episode Seven of Narratives Intertwined

Video on: Odysee
7:54 min.

Sep 14, 2021

COVID19/11: Narratives Intertwined is OffG’s new series of short interviews with prominent voices in the alternate media, vocal Covid sceptics and leading figures in the 9/11 truth movement.
The series is intended to both mark the 20th anniversary of the World Trade Center collapse, and discuss how that event helped shape the modern world and, in turn, set the stage for the Covid “pandemic”.

*

Episode Seven of Narratives Intertwined features Catherine Austin Fitts, investment banker and former Assistant Secretary of Housing and Urban Development for Housing in the first Bush administration.

Catherine has written extensively on the misappropriation of public funds, and potential massive corruption funnelling taxpayer money into private hands. In 2017 she was a co-author of a report which found that, since the year 2000, the US Department of Defense had over 21 TRILLION dollars in unauthorised spending.

In her interview she discusses witnessing warning signs pre-9/11, how the attacks distracted from – and destroyed evidence of – the Pentagon “losing” almost 4 trillion dollars, and just what the powers that be could do with all that stolen money.
You can read more of Catherine’s work through her publication The Solari Report, and you can read her 2017 report on the missing trillions here

Comments

most voted comment thus far:
Wayne Vanderploeg
Sep 14, 2021 8:12 PM


Lots of people are descending on the U.S. Capitol this weekend (the 18th). The goal is to get the remaining jailed “insurrectionists” out of jail due to the lack of due process. Coincidentally, 15 more Jan 6th “insurrectionists” were just arrested. I don’t think that was a coincidence. Fencing is going up as fast as possible including a tower (or towers) this time. Local police have had their vacations cancelled and, supposedly, the National Guard is organizing. Going to be interesting. Meanwhile, the movement of chanting “Fuck You Biden” at college football games and other events grew in numbers this past weekend. I have never seen anything like it. Except maybe that at the Democratic convention in 1968. That was a wild one. I would guess that some of those protestors who were at that convention may be in Washington D.C. this weekend. Never seen so many people pissed off in my life. I suspect that the vaccine mandates will move to the front and center. Remember Kent State. That’s what the police need to be thinking. These guardsmen and police are the brothers and sisters of the protestors and, most likely, share the same values and beliefs. Most of the Ohio guardsmen laid down their guns and walked away at Kent State. Let’s hope that happens here. We are on the brink of something bad. It is clear they want to scare us into submission. This is what the second amendment is all about. Protecting ourselves from a tyrannical government. And it is most definitely tyranny.
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Re: 20 Years Since 9/11

Postby 8bitagent » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:14 am

mentalgongfu2 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:20 am wrote:
8bitagent » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:03 am wrote:To toot my own horn, I do feel my thread I made a decade ago on here is one the deepest dive into the 9/11 event online of more obscure elements that has mainstream news articles to back it up even the wildest material.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=35408

Waking up and seeing the mainstream news cover this "Biden authorizes the Justice Department to unseal previously classified documents linking Saudi Arabia to 9/11" is beyond yawn. 1) The Democrat sycophants on MSNBCIA now worship George W Bush and the neocons and even have them as MSNBC hosts and regular guests 2) Noone cares anymore. Joe Bidens last act in Afghanistan was getting 13 marines needlessly killed/over 200 Afghans killed and then drone striking a food aid worker and his 8 kids and claiming he was "ISIS K".

When I started reading Jeff Well's RI blog in 2005, and posting on here in 2007, I didn't realize how far away 20 years after "The Big Wedding" would be. Yet here we are. 20th annv of 9/11, and it just feels like meh. Just look at George W Bush's speech in Shanksville and the fawning reception by the MSNBCNN media to see how far we've come.


No argument on the main points, but didn't the Fox News-iverse make this possible by shifting the Overton window wide to the right? I've got no defense for CNN or MSNBC, but where does the other big pro-war Network fit into your cosmology?


In the wake of Biden's catastrophic pull out in Afghanistan, Fox once again put on their forever war hat(even tho yeah, Trump wanted to pull out too) Strangely a lot of the Trump right became anti war, which is why you have Glenn Greenwald always on Fox News instead of MSNBC. I think the genesis of that came from the 2008 Ron Paul era, metastasized into the Tea Party and then MAGA eta while MSNBC openly embraced the neocons/Bush team as a bulwark against Trump. An example of this weird dynamic of course is Tucker Carlson as being vehemently anti war, yet then he dips into stuff that could be considered pretty xenophobic. Meanwhile George W Bush and his cohorts are celebrated on MSNBC. Biden's fuckup in Afghanistan got weeks of unending coverage on Fox News, but it was never couched in a "gee maybe we never should have gone there" and I doubt they're covering the revelation about the drone strike killing 11 innocent people recently. Another narrative I've seen emerge is that "Well what was Afghanistan even about", which we all been saying for 20 years. Ultimately it feels like both sides are sick of the wars. The Republican idiots a decade ago focused on "Benghazi" as the MSNBC Biden-crats obsess over "January 6th", without seeing the bigger picture. I check out clips of MSNBC, Fox News, OAN, Newsmax and CNN here and there but can't stand most of it(Unless they're talking about UFOs or climate change)

Again I can't stand the Fox News/Newsmax/Ben Shapiro/Glen Beck garbage world, I just try and make sense of it. However....ten years ago Fox News produced probably one of the best documentaries Ive seen in the mainstream on the link between Saudi Arabia and 9/11 which I highly recommend
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Re: 20 Years Since 9/11

Postby thrulookingglass » Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:19 am

"Tucker Carlson as being vehemently anti war..."

Of all the things unholy. I'll be sure to make him spring for the coffee and doughnuts at the next Code Pink meeting. Hysterically untrue.
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Re: 20 Years Since 9/11

Postby Harvey » Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:07 am

This is still an extremely conservative estimate, for example, the claim by Brown University that the number killed directly by the 9/11 Wars remains under 1 million is probably just fanciful. The Lancet report estimated close to 700,000 in Iraq by 2006 alone. Not estimating enemy casualties from the outset was a master stroke by the aggressors, since every attempt to do so would be de facto Unofficial.


https://bylinetimes.com/2021/09/15/up-to-six-million-people-the-unrecorded-fatalities-of-the-war-on-terror/

Up to Six Million People: The Unrecorded Fatalities of the ‘War on Terror’
Nafeez Ahmed, 15 September 2021

The Costs of War Project

Earlier this month, Brown University’s Costs of War project updated its rolling analysis of the number of people killed in direct violence due to the post-9/11 ‘War on Terror’.

It found that just under a million people – between 897,000 and 929,000 – were killed directly due to violence across five theatres of war involving significant US and Western military involvement: Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Syria and Yemen.

These numbers have been widely reported as proving that around one million people have been killed in post-9/11 wars. Yet, they are extremely conservative figures.

The real death toll is far, far higher – a fact that has not been properly reported in media reports.

“The deaths we tallied are likely a vast under-count of the true toll these wars have taken on human life,” said the co-author of the Costs of War project report Professor Neta Crawford – noting that the tally does not incorporate indirect deaths due to the consequences of war through the destruction of civilian infrastructure.

The new figures therefore do not account for the many indirect deaths the War on Terror has caused by way of disease, displacement and loss of access to food or clean drinking water, she acknowledged.

The Geneva Declaration report concludes that we are safe to assume on average four indirect deaths to every direct death in contemporary conflicts


An Invisible Death Toll

The most accurate way to calculate the scale of total deaths would be through epidemiological surveys to determine ‘excess deaths’ by comparing pre-war and post-war mortality rates, which would encompass both direct and indirect deaths.

However, in many of these countries, the infrastructure to monitor and collect the relevant data does not exist or is very hard to obtain, which is why such surveys are rare.

In the absence of epidemiological analysis, it is still possible to develop a clear sense of the minimum likely scale of indirect deaths.

Last September, when commenting on an earlier version of the project’s findings, Costs of War report co-author Professor Catherine Lutz pointed out that “one has to multiply that direct death number… by an estimated two to four times to get to the total number of people – in the millions – who are dead today who would not have been dead had the wars not been fought”. But even this approach is likely to produce an under-count.

According to a landmark report by the Geneva Declaration on Armed Violence and Development – signed by 113 governments – in “the majority of conflicts since the early 1990s, for which good data is available, the burden of indirect deaths was between three and 15 times the number of direct deaths”.

The report found that, due to the impact of conflicts on public services and infrastructure, vastly greater numbers of people end up dying indirectly from the consequences of violence compared to the number that die directly from conflict.

The range varies based on different factors such as the levels of economic development in a country before a war, the duration of fighting, the intensity of combat, the population’s access to basic care and services, and the success of humanitarian relief efforts.

The more intense the fighting and the more degraded the level of infrastructure, the higher the number of indirect deaths.

The report concluded that “a reasonable average estimate would be a ratio of four indirect deaths to one direct death in contemporary conflicts”.

However, it should be noted that this ratio is a minimum average that is likely to be extremely conservative in relation to the impact of Western-backed military interventions. For instance, six months after the bombing campaign in Afghanistan in 2001, data assessed by the Guardian revealed that, although between 1,300 and 1,800 Afghans were killed directly, as many as 20,000 and possibly as high as 49,600 people had died due to the indirect consequences of the military intervention. In this case, the total number of indirect deaths was at least 15 times higher than direct deaths.

If that higher, empirically-substantiated ratio was applied to the Costs of War direct death figures in Afghanistan since 9/11 (176,000 people), it would imply 2,640,000 indirect deaths in that country to date, which would suggest that in just one country a total of about 2.8 million Afghans have been killed due to the War on Terror.

This scale of violence has been corroborated by one other assessment of avoidable mortality in Afghanistan by retired La Trobe University biochemist Dr Gideon Polya. His book, Body Count: Global Avoidable Mortality Since 1950, put total excess deaths of Afghans since 2001 at three million.

The very dynamics of mass violence have become globalised and normalised, precisely because our political and cultural institutions are incapable of acknowledging that such state-sanctioned terrorism even exists


While the Geneva Declaration approach cannot be used to produce precise figures, it can provide an accurate insight into the likely order of magnitude of total deaths in a way that simple direct death figures cannot.

Applying its methodology to the Costs of War project figures suggests that the overall number of indirect deaths from 20 years of the War on Terror is between at least 3,588,000 and 3,716,000 people. This indicates that Brown University’s one million figure is extremely conservative and that the total death toll is actually at least between 4,485,000 and 4,645,000 people.

Once again, these cannot be taken as specific figures, but rather as an indication of the real magnitude of deaths – likely to be a minimum of 4.5 million people. Even this estimate is highly likely to be too low, given that the real ratio could be larger than 4:1, and in Afghanistan, for instance, was 15:1 at the height of the 2001 bombing campaign.

Syria and Libya

In 2019, I was commissioned by the Hub Foundation in California to examine the available data on deaths in Muslim-majority regions as a consequence of post-9/11 conflicts. The data from that exercise suggest that some of Brown University’s figures for direct deaths are almost certainly too low.

In particular, the project’s estimate of the Syrian death toll is only 266,000, based on death tallies for after US intervention in 2014. The authors acknowledge that many of these deaths would also have been caused by other parties.

But as I have documented for the International State Crime Initiative at Queen Mary University of London, US and Western intervention in Syria began much earlier – as early as 2011 – and took a range of covert and overt forms which played a crucial role in igniting and prolonging the conflict in various ways.

While this does not lessen the responsibility of Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad and his backers – Russia and Iran – in the violence, it does show that it is arbitrary to begin the death count in 2014 as if that is the pivotal date of US involvement. This means that the actual direct death toll in Syria is far higher – around some 511,000 people (according to groups both opposed to and sympathetic to Assad) – a figure which itself is probably conservative.

In addition to the five theatres of war examined by Brown University, I had also incorporated data from the NATO intervention in Libya, including some 27,361 direct deaths. When the Geneva Declaration 4:1 average ratio is applied to these figures, the numbers are sobering. My original analysis in 2019 had incorporated Brown University’s older data compiled that year, but the new report shows the figures are now higher.

Below, I have incorporated Brown University’s new figures to update my original analysis, along with the more accurate figures for Syria, and taking into account Libya, to develop a range of plausible estimates of indirect deaths that should be recognised as probably conservative.

More than 5.8 million Total Deaths

Rather than applying the Geneva Declaration approach wholesale to the overall direct death figures, I have applied it case-by-case for each theatre of war to produce a likely order of magnitude figure for indirect deaths.

These final figures are then totalled to generate an overall cumulative death toll for each conflict zone, which in turn is used to calculate an overall estimate for the total number of deaths across all these theatres of war. As these are not precise figures, they have been rounded to the nearest thousand.

Image

This analysis shows that the total number of direct deaths during the War on Terror in major war zones with significant involvement of Western governments amounts to around 1.2 million people.

In addition to this figure, applying the Geneva Declaration methodology suggests that between 4.2 and 4.6 million is the range encompassing the minimum number of people who are likely to have died as an indirect consequence of these post-9/11 wars.

When the number of direct and indirect deaths in each major war zone is then totalled, it reveals that at least 5.8 to 6 million people are likely to have died overall due to the War on Terror – a staggering number which is still probably very conservative.

These estimates cannot be assumed to hold with precision, but they demonstrate the real scale of the consequences of the violence inflicted.

While it is obviously not possible to attribute these deaths specifically to a particular party in the way that has been attempted with direct death tallies, these deaths are causally related to the chain of events that began with post-9/11 military policies implemented by the US, UK and other Western states.

Without that chain of events, these wars and their devastating outcomes simply would not have happened.

The Nature of War

To the extent that the Costs of War project’s conservative direct death tallies are widely reported and cited as a reliable indicator of the scale of violence in the War on Terror, there is a risk that the true, far higher but largely invisible, scale of death remains suppressed from public consciousness.

On 9/11, nearly 3,000 innocent Americans were killed on US soil. In the ensuing 20 years, just over one million people were directly killed in the series of wars that followed as a result. But that is only a part of the story because the one million figure is a vast under-count of the true total death toll.

In reality, it is likely that at least six million people have been killed in the course of the War on Terror, and that the vast majority of those killed are of Muslim origin.

Yet, it is in the very nature of how these wars have been conducted that we can never be truly certain of the full scale of the deaths they have caused both directly and indirectly.
‘War on Terror’Turning a Blind Eyeto 20 Years of Brutality
Dr Maria Norris

The true scale of the destruction caused by the War on Terror remains largely taboo, unreported and unexplored by most media commentators and academic experts, let alone policy-makers.

To even contemplate that such a huge number of people might have been killed as a result of decisions by US, British and European leaders – in the name of fighting terrorism – strays too far outside the framework of what is culturally acceptable and intellectually palatable. Such a scale of death is not what ‘we’ do. We are not ‘terrorists’.

However if the true consequences of these wars are examined, we might begin to recognise how the nature of conflict and violence has transformed through the 20th and 21st Centuries. It has become imperceptible, embedded in far-flung institutions of power, upheld through short-sighted military operations with structures and ethics designed in such a way that they systematically maximise the deaths of invisible ‘others’ in the name of protecting ‘our’ more important bodies and interests.

The very dynamics of mass violence have become globalised and normalised, precisely because our political and cultural institutions are incapable of acknowledging that such state-sanctioned terrorism even exists.

Twenty years after 9/11, the shocking fact is that, due to our lack of interest as a civilisation, no one really knows for sure how many people have died as a result of the War on Terror. Now the Taliban’s return to power in Afghanistan has added insult to injury, providing proof that the projection of extreme force only ever empowers more extremists.

As the Taliban stocks up its new Government with designated terrorists and as al-Qaeda accelerates its capacity to regroup, there is no longer any excuse. We need to fundamentally rethink our entire approach to what we call ‘security’ and re-evaluate how we have allowed ourselves to reach this point of devastation and delusion. If we don’t, the return of the Taliban is merely the beginning of an untimely end.
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Re: 20 Years Since 9/11

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:47 am

mentalgongfu2 » 14 Sep 2021 20:20 wrote:
8bitagent » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:03 am wrote:To toot my own horn, I do feel my thread I made a decade ago on here is one the deepest dive into the 9/11 event online of more obscure elements that has mainstream news articles to back it up even the wildest material.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=35408

Waking up and seeing the mainstream news cover this "Biden authorizes the Justice Department to unseal previously classified documents linking Saudi Arabia to 9/11" is beyond yawn. 1) The Democrat sycophants on MSNBCIA now worship George W Bush and the neocons and even have them as MSNBC hosts and regular guests 2) Noone cares anymore. Joe Bidens last act in Afghanistan was getting 13 marines needlessly killed/over 200 Afghans killed and then drone striking a food aid worker and his 8 kids and claiming he was "ISIS K".

When I started reading Jeff Well's RI blog in 2005, and posting on here in 2007, I didn't realize how far away 20 years after "The Big Wedding" would be. Yet here we are. 20th annv of 9/11, and it just feels like meh. Just look at George W Bush's speech in Shanksville and the fawning reception by the MSNBCNN media to see how far we've come.


No argument on the main points, but didn't the Fox News-iverse make this possible by shifting the Overton window wide to the right? I've got no defense for CNN or MSNBC, but where does the other big pro-war Network fit into your cosmology?


Maybe he didn't expect any better from Fox or the people that watch it?
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Re: 20 Years Since 9/11

Postby conniption » Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:34 pm

off-guardian


The Myth of the “Infallible Elite”

Catte Black
Sep 17, 2021


A commenter BTL called Petra made this claim recently in regard to the conspirators behind 9/11 etc.

All glaring anomalies are deliberate examples of “revelation of the method” / “hidden in plain sight”…


She was referring to the fact Building 7 was so very obviously ‘pulled’. Her thesis being the elites are basically infallible, literally incapable of human error and when they appear to goof or slip up and reveal their lies or fakery, this is all part of their plan.

They are gods essentially, not mortals, and whatever they reveal unto us will be what they choose us to know of their infinite power.

OK.

So, here’s my reply to her.


I recall a true-crime show once where a total psychopath planned his wife’s murder in meticulous detail. Gave her antifreeze by injecting it into an unopened coke bottle or something. Planned an alibi for when she died, covered his tracks.

But then he didn’t empty the trash and the antifreeze container was found there, plus a receipt in his car for the purchase.

Oh, and he had googled ‘how to kill your wife and get away with it’ and hadn’t deleted the search.

Do we think this was intentional “revelation of the method”? Or just an idiot getting caught out?

Do we assume the guy’s intention all along was to get found out and put on death row – because that is where he ended up? Or do we figure he wanted to get away with it, thought he’d been brilliantly deceptive but was defeated by his own limitations?

And, by the way, he was not an isolated example. True crime is littered with people such as this. Often highly educated, intelligent, privileged people who hatch plans to remove a spouse, rival, business partner etc that combine superficial cunning with breathtaking omissions of basic common sense.

You or I could do much better, except we wouldn’t. The fact seems to be that being psychopathic enough to want to do these things renders you, by and large, incapable of doing them successfully or plausibly.

Their lack of empathy makes them ruthless but also incapable of reasoning to the extent of creating an interlocking, three-dimensional narrative of innocence.

The point here being that the minds behind the mass-murdering psyops are of exactly the same kind as those killing spouses, and the motives are just as base – greed, gain, power and other pointless things.

The ‘conspirators’ crank it up a few notches but, just like the guy with the antifreeze, their shenanigans are a dizzying mishmash of ruthless cunning and utter simpleminded incompetence.

They do the equivalent of carefully injecting poison into the coke and then leaving the evidence in the trash – because the idea someone might disbelieve their initial story enough to do even a bit of investigating never crosses their minds.

And of course they’re in no danger of ending up on death row because, unlike hapless antifreeze guy, they own the judiciary, legal system and entire political class so the incentive to try hard isn’t even there.

While we’re on the subject this is a good time to remember these psyops/false flags are never smooth well oiled machines. Their very nature tends to preclude that. They’re not clever heist movies. They are a bedlam of isolated groups working often competing interests. The required level of secrecy and compartmentalizations means control is diffuse and therefore often less than total and easily lost.

The greed and impairment of the driving forces affects every level. There are petty rivalries, one-upmanships. They lie to each other as much as to us. They sell each other out and stitch each other up. Different pockets may be working competing or conflicting narratives. The unexpected inevitably happens. Plans need to be changed or adapted on the fly and not everyone gets to know soon enough.

The middlemen and spokespeople may still be working an old script and, for example, announce the collapse of a building that is still standing.

When this happens fresh panic ensues, emergency narrative improvisations happen and then may be subsequently cancelled due to major plausibility issues.

And so we get smiling Silversteins, smugly thinking they can improvise a backup story of ‘pulling’ building 7, only to be told later that won’t fly, because you can’t rig a building for ‘pulling’ in a matter of hours.

Cue sudden change of direction and WTC7 being airbrushed from the narrative.

The supervillain version of ‘them’ touted by some forgets all this messy human reality and replaces it with unreal and quasi hero-worshipping assumptions of godlike power. And THAT is exactly how these greedy little narcissists want to be seen. It’s their favorite autoerotic workout routine. “That’s right, I’m all powerful, that’s right I play with your mind. Oh yeah baby, I’M A GOD.”

Someone tell Petra and her ilk they are simply asking us to ignore the silly little clown behind the curtain and tremble at the awesome power of Oz.

The PTB love people who do that.
_______
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https://off-guardian.org/2021/09/17/the ... ble-elite/
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Re: 20 Years Since 9/11

Postby RocketMan » Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:35 am

Make CONTROLLED DEMOLITION trend again.

It was initially one of my only bones of contention with RI (15 fucking years ago, what is this even), the stubborn fight against the relevance, nay, even mentioning of the possiblity of the demolition of the buildings.

I say WTC 1,2 & 7 were demolished. Come at me.
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Re: 20 Years Since 9/11

Postby thrulookingglass » Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:51 am

Controlled demolition is a slam dunk. There should be little questioning of that especially given the extremely rare footage of building 7 falling with visible explosive charges going off. The Fairbanks Alaska study confirms it. The death of that Netherlands fellow should be extremely suspect (he's in the A&E 9/11 documentary). The man who worked in the sub-basement that experienced explosions BEFORE the plane impact should not be ignored either. The fact that the "fires" burned at temperatures above 2700F for FOUR MONTHS due to the presence of military grade nanothermate in the rubble pile as it would take an exothermic reaction to cause this (there is no great oxygen supply beneath the piled up ruins and concrete reduced to pumice) is as good as CE399.

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Re: 20 Years Since 9/11

Postby Harvey » Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:14 pm

Rocket and Thru, I agree completely.
And while we spoke of many things, fools and kings
This he said to me
"The greatest thing
You'll ever learn
Is just to love
And be loved
In return"


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