On "Trans Kids" and related topics..

[Belligerent Savant]

.
Moving from another thread to a new one specific to the topic raised:

parents are criminaliized for trans kids

What? "Criminalized"? Really? For what, exactly?

trans kids

What?

^^^^^^^^^^

Indeed. That topic is worthy of its own thread. Hormone-altering drugs (and all manner of psychological priming) pushed on children who haven't even initiated, or completed, puberty. The fucking medical/pharma cartels at work. Yet again. Among other interests.

Of course, there are all types of humans in this world. The feeling of discomfort within one's body/sex is certainly not a new phenomenon. But it's not "organic" that there's been orders of magnitude increases in pre-teens/teens self-identifying as something other than male/female over the last ~5 yrs.

It would be naive to believe this isn't due at least in part to social conditioning/social media mechanisms, among other factors.

And it's absolutely not 'happenstance' that AOC raises this signal in that tweet. It's a topic of interest (i.e., yet another vehicle for altering mindsets/social customs, which ostensibly -- casually -- may be observed by some as another social trend to be accepted, but there's other agendas in play here) - and will continue to be so.

The feeling of discomfort within one's body/sex is certainly not a new phenomenon.

Predators instinctively know how to take down their prey, any emergent movement (read - weaponisable weakness) is almost certainly monitored in real time. It's even easier when every mediated voice belongs to the oligarchs.

But it's not "organic" that there's been orders of magnitude increases in pre-teens/teens self-identifying as something other than male/female.

Don't be too sure, yet. Total information awareness buys a certain amount of insight into what nature does quite naturally and long before anyone else notices. It could easily be that nature is doing something for good reasons, which the predators are seeking to re-direct, control and weaponise.

It would be naive to believe this isn't due at least in part to social conditioning/social media mechanisms, among other factors.

True.

And it's absolutely not 'happenstance' that AOC raises this signal in that tweet.

Absolutely not.

there's other agendas in play here) - and will continue to be so.

Exactly. To blithely assume there isn't is simply unsupported by everything in history.

Thoughtful responses. And this:

But it's not "organic" that there's been orders of magnitude increases in pre-teens/teens self-identifying as something other than male/female.

Don't be too sure, yet. Total information awareness buys a certain amount of insight into what nature does quite naturally and long before anyone else notices. It could easily be that nature is doing something for good reasons, which the predators are seeking to re-direct, control and weaponise.

Astute consideration -- it hadn't occurred to me. Worthy of further reflection as events/trends develop.

There is no such thing as a "trans kid". The whole notion is contemptible bullshit and any politician who even pays lip service to it is a charlatan complicit in child abuse. The mainstreaming of this junk was a significant new stage in the ongoing War on Reality.

There's a photo of me and my brother, taken by my aunt K. in the back court when we were 4 and 3 respectively. We're wearing tea towels for headscarfs and bathtowels for skirts, we're carrying our mother's & aunt's handbags, we're shuffling about in their big high-heeled shoes, and we're grinning our faces off. My aunt's penciled note on the back: "The boys 'being ladies' ".

More often at that age, we "identified as" lions and tigers, clearly an early sign that we were trans-species.

Total information awareness buys a certain amount of insight into what nature does quite naturally and long before anyone else notices. It could easily be that nature is doing something for good reasons, which the predators are seeking to re-direct, control and weaponise.

This...

There is no such thing as a "trans kid". The whole notion is contemptible bullshit and any politician who even pays lip service to it is a charlatan complicit in child abuse. The mainstreaming of this junk was a significant new stage in the ongoing War on Reality.

There's a photo of me and my brother, taken by my aunt K. in the back court when we were 4 and 3 respectively. We're wearing tea towels for headscarfs and bathtowels for skirts, we're carrying our mother's & aunt's handbags, we're shuffling about in their big high-heeled shoes, and we're grinning our faces off. My aunt's penciled note on the back: "The boys 'being ladies' ".

More often at that age, we "identified as" lions and tigers, clearly an early sign that we were trans-species.

I most strongly disagree with you on this.

I was married for a long time to a trans man - that is, born into a female body but always identified as male. From his childhood pictures you could see already at age 7 that he looked much more like a boy, even thou of course was dressed in girls clothes back then. He told me that he always felt he was a boy, from at least about age 7 or 8. At 12 he started using boyish clothes and cut his hair short.

That never changed, from teen age on he realized he actually was a man, but in the wrong body. Never felt comfortable in it.

When we were living together, he would pass as a man to many people, even though he did not start hormone therapy or have surgery, simply started living life as he wanted. Was able to change his name to a gender-neutral one too, even though the official gender was still female.

Many trans people have known it from very early childhood.

What I do agree on is that one should not go lightly to things like gender surgery or hormone therapy, and I for one am of the opinion that society should accommodate peoples identities as they are, without mandating drastic changes to ones body or hormones. One should be free to do as they choose though, when they are adults and have had time to consider everything.

But society should not push you into anything like that. In some traditional societies people were far more free to live their lives as they identified.

Examples -
https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/conten ... equality/#!
https://www.rewire.org/two-spirited-third-gender/

Gnomad, my objection was specifically to the cant term "trans kids", to the junk "science" behind it, and to the "caring" careerist politicians who mouth that phrase so opportunistically without the slightest care for the damage it has done and is doing to countless children (and adults) worldwide.

(I want to say more about this later, but I have to go out now. Is there already a dedicated RI thread for this topic?)

[Belligerent Savant]

.
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/958742

Perspective > Medscape Diabetes & Endocrinology
COMMENTARY

Time to Hit Pause on 'Pausing' Puberty in Gender-Dysphoric Youth

William Malone, MD

DISCLOSURES September 17, 2021

Teens are identifying as transgender in record numbers. In 2017, 3-4 in 100 teens in the United States reported that they are or may be transgender. A more recent 2021 study suggests that the rate of transgender identification among America's youth may be as high as 9 in 100. All of the major gender centers in the world have reported a several-thousand-percent increase in youth presenting with gender distress.

How do we reconcile these numbers with 2013 data reporting the prevalence of adult gender dysphoria to be a rare 2-14 in 100,000. Reflection is warranted because many US medical societies support providing youth who have transgender identification (over 1 million children and adolescents, using the latest estimates) with access to powerful endocrine interventions...

More at link (requires registration for the full article)

From the comments section:

Dr. Graham Pinn
NOVEMBER 5, 2021
An excellent and long overdue article. How much damage has been done in the pursuit of this untested approach to the transgender epidemic, did we forget the concepts of controlled clinical trials? Psychologists have much to answer for in their desire to invent new conditions; there are numerous other examples of new disorders which have turned poor parenting into psychological conditions. Drug therapy has produced long term consequences, but the role of surgical intervention is even more disturbing. The lawyers picnic has begun.

Dr. Karen Raymer
SEPTEMBER 26, 2021
This is an excellent summary of the evidence that we have to date on this most important topic. Social pressure can arise from the best of intentions, but it must not change the thresholds required for a medical intervention. Children deserve evidence-based medicine for any and all conditions with which they present to a medical practitioner. Period.

Michele Ko
SEPTEMBER 25, 2021
Thank you for speaking up on this topic. It was a very insightful, intelligent, unbiased article. I concur with the comments by our colleagues that children/adolescents (and even young adults) with immature frontal lobes should not be making life-altering, permanent decisions.

Dr. Anthony Ian Wilson
SEPTEMBER 25, 2021
During the last century many psychiatrists advocated physical treatment for psychological problems. The worst was pre frontal leucotomy. ECT - although it still has a very minor place as treatment now, was used for many conditions. Insulin shock therapy. Homosexuals were 'treated' by castration, Women preoccupied with sexual delusions were put into early menopause by irradiation or removal of the ovaries. I think that irreversible physical management for the psychiatric disorder of gender dysphoria will go the same way except for a very small minority who will take the decision for themselves when they are much older - I would say, certainly, when into their twenties.

Dr. Christopher Pickin
SEPTEMBER 24, 2021
What has gone so very wrong? Why is society and social media in particular promoting this craze for gender misidentity? Pre sexual teenagers are in a stage of flux and have no means of knowing about gender identity unless the idea is pushed at them by the crusaders at an age where most of us are unsure and a bit scared about sexuality. Younger than that and it is purely play acting and wholly open to extereior persuasion... you do not have the mechanisms for knowing how you will turn out. By definition, you are the gender dictated by your genes.. if you choose to live otherwise, that is fine... but your actual gender was fixed the moment you were conceived and will remain until you die... and into eternity if the archeologists ever get hold of you.

Dr. Judy Marvin
SEPTEMBER 23, 2021
Thank you Dr Malone for your thoughtful comments. I am an OBGYN and have had many conversations over the years with women considering sterilization. The data on sterilization suggests a high rate of regret when it is performed prior to the age of 25. We also discourage women from making a decision that permanently impacts their lives when they are actively suffering from anxiety or depression. That we would think that teenagers are in a good position to make a decision to permanently change the appearance and function of their body while suffering from anxiety, depression or simply the stressors of adolescence astonishes me.

Dr. Robert DILLARD
SEPTEMBER 23, 2021
A voice of reason. I already thought it bizarre that physicians bought into a disturbed teen girl fad and crazy parents actively creating a new style of Munchhausen by proxy abuse.

[Gnomad]

I would wager that one of the elephants in this room is....

All the chemicals we use, and increasingly use. All the plastics that we package our foods and drinks in. That we eat every day with said chemicals.

Many of them have hormonal properties, affecting many major systems in our bodies. Many mimic or disrupt normal hormonal function, and one would expect this to show up especially in kids who have been swimming in the chemical disruptors their whole life.

https://www.niehs.nih.gov/health/topics ... /index.cfm

Endocrine disrupting chemicals cause adverse effects in animals. But limited scientific information exists on potential health problems in humans. Because people are typically exposed to multiple endocrine disruptors at the same time, assessing public health effects is difficult.
What are some common endocrine disruptors?

Bisphenol A (BPA) — used to make polycarbonate plastics and epoxy resins, which are found in many plastic products including food storage containers
Dioxins — produced as a byproduct in herbicide production and paper bleaching, they are also released into the environment during waste burning and wildfires
Perchlorate — a by-product of aerospace, weapon, and pharmaceutical industries found in drinking water and fireworks
Perfluoroalkyl and Polyfluoroalkyl Substances (PFAS) — used widely in industrial applications, such as firefighting foams and non-stick pan, paper, and textile coatings
Phthalates — used to make plastics more flexible, they are also found in some food packaging, cosmetics, children’s toys, and medical devices
Phytoestrogens — naturally occurring substances in plants that have hormone-like activity, such as genistein and daidzein that are in soy products, like tofu or soy milk
Polybrominated diphenyl ethers (PBDE) — used to make flame retardants for household products such as furniture foam and carpets
Polychlorinated biphenyls (PCB) — used to make electrical equipment like transformers, and in hydraulic fluids, heat transfer fluids, lubricants, and plasticizers
Triclosan — may be found in some anti-microbial and personal care products, like liquid body wash

How do people encounter endocrine-disrupting chemicals?

People may be exposed to endocrine disruptors through food and beverages consumed, pesticides applied, and cosmetics used. In essence, your contact with these chemicals may occur through diet, air, skin, and water.

Even low doses of endocrine-disrupting chemicals may be unsafe. The body’s normal endocrine functioning involves very small changes in hormone levels, yet we know even these small changes can cause significant developmental and biological effects. This observation leads scientists to think that endocrine-disrupting chemical exposures, even at low amounts, can alter the body’s sensitive systems and lead to health problems.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 102618.htm

Researchers at the University of Copenhagen have found several hundred different chemical substances in tap water stored in reusable plastic bottles. Several of these substances are potentially harmful to human health. There is a need for better regulation and manufacturing standards for manufacturers, according to the chemists behind the study.

Have you ever experienced the strange taste of water after it has been in a reusable plastic bottle for a while? It appears that there is a solid, yet worrying reason for this.

Two chemists from the University of Copenhagen have studied which chemical substances are released into liquids by popular types of soft plastic reusable bottles. The results were quite a surprise.

"We were taken aback by the large amount of chemical substances we found in water after 24 hours in the bottles. There were hundreds of substances in the water -- including substances never before found in plastic, as well as substances that are potentially harmful to health. After a dishwasher cycle, there were several thousand," says Jan H. Christensen, Professor of Environmental Analytical Chemistry at the University of Copenhagen's Department of Plant and Environmental Sciences.

Endocrine disruptors and insecticide

Professor Christensen and fellow researcher Selina Tisler detected more than 400 different substances from the bottle plastic and over 3,500 substances derived from dishwasher soap. A large portion of these are unknown substances that the researchers have yet to identify. But even of the identified chemicals, the toxicity of at least 70 % remains unknown.

And so on...
All this has to have an increasing effect on development of human children.

As well as this -
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detai ... rich-world

The paranoid commander’s fears about his fertility were easy to mock in 1964, when Kubrick’s film was first released. But the premise may be getting closer to reality with each passing day. In 2017, Shanna Swan of the Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York and Hagai Levine of Hadassah-Hebrew University in Jerusalem, along with six other researchers, estimated the average sperm count for 43,000 men in 55 countries across the world. The data, from 185 previously published studies, suggest that sperm counts fell by about 25% between 1973 and 2011 (see chart). But the academics performed a regression analysis that controlled for variation in the studies' sampling technique, their potential sample bias, the age of men and their level of abstinence before a sample was taken. They found that sperm counts had in fact fallen by about 50% in Western countries over the period. Although the data were less plentiful, similar trends were observed in developing countries, too.

Dr Swan's new book, “Count Down”, released earlier this year, investigates why this decline has occurred. The most likely culprit, she argues, is the proliferation of harmful chemicals such as bisphenol A (BPA)—which is most commonly found in household plastic goods. Humans’ endocrine systems, which produce hormones including testosterone and oestrogen, can be adversely affected by these chemicals. In some cases they reduce fertility among both men and women. One study, conducted in Boston, looked at nearly 500 young men who hoped to donate sperm. It found that the share of applicants who were sufficiently fertile to donate had fallen from 69% to 44% in the ten years to 2013.

Wonder why...

[MacCruiskeen]

Thread:

@MaizyDaizyZzzz
Somebody needs to tell these girls it is OK to be a 'Tomboy'...

@DailyMailUK· 12 hrs ago.

5,500 children are now on NHS waiting list for gender swap treatment after post-lockdown surge in demand
https://trib.al/FHAtiy1

https://twitter.com/MaizyDaizyZzzz/stat ... 2775659522

[...] Just 138 children were referred for treatment in 2010/11. That had grown to 2,383 in 2020/21, a 17-fold increase.

At the start of the 2010s, the majority of children referred for treatment were male-born, but female-born patients now make up most of the caseload.

Reasons for that shift are not known, but some experts say that it is part of a wider mental health crisis among British girls, who are more likely to report anxiety, depression and self-harm than boys. [...]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ailymailUK

The "trans" propaganda drive began at least a decade ago, but these children's lives have been severely disrupted for the last two years. They've been terrorised, immobilised, "distanced", masked, alienated from their peers, abandoned by adults, lied to incessantly by pseudoscientists, taught to fear breathing, and deliberately addicted to screens.

Is it any wonder they don't know who or what they are? Is it surprising that they don't feel comfortable in their own skin? Where will they seek help?

The most powerful environmental toxins are TV and smartphones.

[drstrangelove]

My issue has to do with attention seeking behavior in children. Nurture not nature. The glamor and pageantry of trans culture, the controversy surrounding it, are things that can entice a child to identify as the center of attention. When that wears off, and they are just another kid of the opposite gender again, well, hopefully they haven't been given hormone blockers.

Not sure whether I'd trust the child psychologists who are meant to screen for this.

Ultimately it lies with the parents. There can be no protecting children from bad parents with good intentions. It's just one of those things. So if parents want to sign off on giving their kids hormone blockers, well, either the kid really is trans, or just a victim of bad parenting. What parents do to their children through diet is no worse in my opinion. But none of my business.

Absolutely against allowing the celebration of this type of stuff in schools. If there is a class on tolerance or something, sure include transkids with every other type of kid but in proportion. Showering certain types of behavior, when it comes to children, with an inordinate amount of praise or support, even if it is seemingly 'good', is the self-fulfilling prophesy of those with an agenda. Because there is an agenda at play here.

The atomists want to dominate with their science, yet another aspect under the governance of nature. Also convincing men they are women helps with population control, and I assume hormone blockers sterilize boys. I googled it and it says "there is no evidence to suggest" which means it probably does.

[Belligerent Savant]

^^^^^^^^

Along similar themes:

Brent A. Williams, MD
@BrentAWilliams2

1. Confuse children about gender
2. Create conditions for childhood anxiety
3. Broadly expand the definition of "gender dysphoria"
4. Identify and isolate the children that now have "gender dysphoria"
5. Insist that institutions "affirm" their dysphoria
6. Medicalize them

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/97 ... o_Mar#vp_2

News > Medscape Medical News

Doctors Have Failed Them, Say Those With Transgender Regret

Alicia Ault

March 14, 2022

Hopperreborn
@Hopper783
·
Replying to @BrentAWilliams2

7. Encourage them to make life altering choices before they even reach puberty.
8. Tell them that permanently mangling their genitals will bring them the happiness they seek.

https://twitter.com/BrentAWilliams2/sta ... R7t1pluRxQ

[MacCruiskeen]

@JeffWellsRigInt

Gender identity strategy of tension has been a transhumanist pilot project.

7:54 pm. · 1 Apr. 2022

https://twitter.com/JeffWellsRigInt/sta ... 5561754632

[DrEvil]

Women's rights strategy of tension has been a transhumanist pilot project.
Gay rights strategy of tension has been a transhumanist pilot project.

How is this any different? It's just another marginalized group of people going against the established "natural" order and breaking long-standing taboos in an effort to lead lives that makes sense to them. I realize it makes many people feel uncomfortable and weird, but that's just a sign you're getting old. You'll get used to it.

Transgendered people exist, and just like a kid can know they're gay, a kid can know they're trans.

[Belligerent Savant]

.

A kid knowing they're trans is not a point of concern raised here.

Perhaps re-read the thread and see if you catch the key points after a 2nd reading.

I'd like to believe you're not actually as obtuse as you're coming off here.

[drstrangelove]

Women's rights strategy of tension has been a transhumanist pilot project.
Gay rights strategy of tension has been a transhumanist pilot project.

How is this any different? It's just another marginalized group of people going against the established "natural" order and breaking long-standing taboos in an effort to lead lives that makes sense to them. I realize it makes many people feel uncomfortable and weird, but that's just a sign you're getting old. You'll get used to it.

Transgendered people exist, and just like a kid can know they're gay, a kid can know they're trans.

Can a kid know they are an adult? Age is more arbitrary than biological sex, which is what we are discussing, not transvestism. If a ten year old boy can know they are a girl and take puberty blockers, then it follows that a ten year old boy can also know they are a fully grown man, and consent to sex with other fully grown men. Do you support age-fluidity? Or does it make you feel uncomfortable and weird?

[DrEvil]

My reply was mostly aimed at Mac's assertion that trans kids don't exist (which I should have said explicitly):

There is no such thing as a "trans kid". The whole notion is contemptible bullshit and any politician who even pays lip service to it is a charlatan complicit in child abuse.

.. which I know for a fact is wrong (before you ask - don't. It's none of your business). Other than that - so what if there's more trans kids than there used to be. Maybe it's to do with it now being more accepted and kids finally having the opportunity and vocabulary to describe how they feel and do something about it, despite your best efforts.

[Belligerent Savant]

.

Minor addendum to qualify my last post above: part of the discussion here does involve what it means for a kid/child to "know" they are trans (the extent which more recent conditioning/framing/priming/social media cues influence such sentiment, particularly during pre-teen/teen years).

This is not to say 'trans' didn't exist before the 21st century, of course. But to what extent is the recent and considerable uptick in this sentiment (and this classification of humans) a function of manipulation, and if there is indeed manipulation (it's my position that there is), to what ends?

Also echo Drstrangelove's rhetorical questions in his last post.

[Harvey]

If a ten year old boy can know they are a girl and take puberty blockers, then it follows that a ten year old boy can also know they are a fully grown man, and consent to sex with other fully grown men. Do you support age-fluidity? Or does it make you feel uncomfortable and weird?

Incisive, straight to the heart of the matter.

I think you've anticipated the next move. Weaponise sexual identity, check. Weaponise gender, check. What next? Perhaps weaponise the age of consent? (Go back a couple of decades to PIE and argue this is not plausible...)

Perhaps in just a few more years the Liberal/Left will be on the barricades, calling for the imprisonment or dis-employment of anyone who dare oppose mandatory sex with infants, for public health reasons. Hyperbole? Well, we'll see.

(before you ask - don't. It's none of your business)

Fair enough. But do you really expect to make trust the basis of your entire argument and also win the argument? Didn't Anthony Fauci try that very recently?

[MacCruiskeen]

My reply was mostly aimed at Mac's assertion that trans kids don't exist (which I should have said explicitly):

There is no such thing as a "trans kid". The whole notion is contemptible bullshit and any politician who even pays lip service to it is a charlatan complicit in child abuse.

.. which I know for a fact is wrong (before you ask - don't. It's none of your business).

I know for a fact that they don't. (Before you ask - don't. It's none of your business.)

You see, any number of people can play that game, but it's a childish game, the kind of thing most children grow out of eventually. Adults who claim to know something (especially something so prima facie implausible) are usually expected to say how they know what they claim to know. Especially when it affects the lives of an enormous number of children.

Other than that - so what if there's more trans kids than there used to be.

"So what." Yeah, let's chill. So what if adults encourage children to inhabit a delusion? So what if confused and unhappy ten-year-olds get talked into having their puberty blocked by powerful pharmaceutical drugs? So what if that means a lifetime of drug-dependency? So what if they get persuaded to have their breasts or genitals surgically removed or altered? So what if many of them regret it all bitterly once they're adults? So what if it ruins their lives? No big deal.

Maybe it's to do with it now being more accepted and kids finally having the opportunity and vocabulary to describe how they feel and do something about it, despite your best efforts.

And maybe it's not. Maybe, for example, it's the result of a pitiless propaganda drive by powerful unscrupulous pseudoscientists supported by careerist politicians and gullible useful idiots. What then?

[MacCruiskeen]

Salute a pioneer:

Elliot Page describes his [sic] joy at being able to attend the Oscars in a suit for the first time - after detailing 'pain' he felt at having to wear dresses on red carpet before coming out as transgender

https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1509683488785670144/iI-jCV5Q?format=jpg&name=small
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/a ... enups.html

Yes, Hollywood always forbade women to wear suits. No woman in the film industry had ever dared wear a suit before, otherwise she would in fact have been a man, obviously. Ask Barry Streisand, Charles Rampling or Marlon Dietrich.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FPWe37HX0AM ... name=small

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FPU7tAwWQAM ... name=small

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FPU2evCXwAo ... name=small