On "Trans Kids" and related topics..

[stickdog99]

I would really like some sources on your "transgender rights = pedophile rights" claim. It sounds an awful lot like moral panic talking points recycled from the gay rights debates a few decades back.

As for this:

The trans-kids agenda is to normalise childhood sexuality. Because the only way a kid would know they are the wrong gender is if their sexuality informed them of this. And even then they would be gay not trans.

I can't tell you how I know so don't ask, you can chose to believe me or not, but I know for a fact the bolded part is completely wrong. Also, transgender != gay.

To avoid becoming lifelong Big Pharma dependents, maybe they should at least be encouraged to consider that identifying as gay would be far less physically debilitating?

But where's the money in that?

[DrEvil]

^^That's not really helpful. You feel like this, so why don't you just feel like that instead? It's about as useful as telling someone with depression to just cheer up.

[DrEvil]

If it can't be explained, it's probably a matter of faith. Fair enough.

No, it's a matter of knowing something for a fact, but not being able to expand on how I know that for *reasons*. It's one of those things where if I say more I've said too much. Anyone from my town (village, really) who reads my posting history here will know who I am, so I'm being vague on the incredibly slim chance that one of them does. There's no take-backs on the internet.

[DrEvil]

I would really like some sources on your "transgender rights = pedophile rights" claim.

I did not claim that. I claimed that the theory of trans-children is based on the theory that prepubescent children have a fully developed sexuality and thus have sexual needs.

gender identity is about fulfilling sexual needs. both gay and straight people retain their gender identity assigned to them at birth because it is useful to them in attracting members of the biological sex they are attracted to.

As I've already said, I know for a fact this is wrong, but I can't expand on how I know, so you'll just have to take my word for it, or don't.

trans-people on the other hand reject this and it inhibits their ability to fulfill their needs, as only a small proportion of the gay/straight community are interested in relationships with transpeople. this is why transgender people often behave like incels. both suffer from the same inability to fulfill their sexual needs.

the popularisation of transgenderism has allowed some to fulfill these needs in other ways, such as through attention/fame or a "fight for civil rights" or even career progression within woke institutions. but for the most part transpeople are not happy people. they have high rates of suicide and mental illness. gay people never suffered from this affliction which is why my theory is - transpeople are gay people who reject being gay.

Gay, lesbian and bisexual people all have higher suicide rates than straight people, and transgendered women have a pretty equal spread in identifying as either gay, bisexual or straight.

ironically, both religious conservatives and woke progressives now support conversion therapy.

This is DeSantis level nonsense. One tries to get people to deny who they are, the other tries to help people become who they are.

[drstrangelove]

harvey is right. you can't use faith based personal experience to claim factual universals. especially when your retorts consist of asking others for 'sources' when they express an opinion.

while i explain my reasoning, giving you the opportunity to change my view by pointing out where my line of thinking has gone wrong, you withhold yours and state its factual.

This is DeSantis level nonsense. One tries to get people to deny who they are, the other tries to help people become who they are.

since you love sources you'll love this!

Iran is the only Islamic country where the sex reassignment surgery (SRS) is recognized. Many European citizens travel to this Middle East country for gender confirmation and reassignment surgery. The Guardian wrote “Today, the Islamic Republic of Iran occupies the unlikely role of global leader for sex change” (2). Hence, Iran can be called the hell of homosexuals and the paradise of Trans seeking SRS.

Classical Islamic discourse divides gender as one of two categories, male or female, but has accepted the possibility that in the case of hermaphrodites it is difficult and sometimes impossible to determine the body. However, Ayatollah Khomeini, the Supreme Leader of the Iranian Revolution, once in 1964 in his book “Tahrir al-Wasila” and once after the Islamic Revolution in 1982, issued a fatwa on the act of reassignment and confirmation gender only for people whose faces are inconsistent with their gender and considered it legitimate and this issue became one of the emerging issues of Shia Islamic jurisprudence (2). According to the jurists, since it is not possible to change the soul, but at the same time medical advances have made it possible to change the body, the act of gender reassignment is permissible. Furthermore, according to Iranian civil law, each person receives a share of inheritance based on gender. For example, a Trans woman receives as much inheritance as a woman. In article 939 of the civil code of Iran, if in a transgender person sexual signs prevail over other gender signs, the person is subject to the rules of gender in which the symptoms are predominant. According to the Family Protection Law adopted in 2012, a person can refer to the family court to apply for gender matching (2).

On the other hand, in an article the authors did not distinguish between SRS and conversion therapy (1). What is common in Iran is SRS, not conversion therapy or reparative therapies. SRS has a guideline and is designed and approved by the World Professional Association for Transgender People (WPATH). It is a professional organization that has published the health care standards for transsexual, transgender and gender nonconforming people in the latest version (version 7). Psychologically, SRS is in line with the adaptation of physical body to sexual identity and reduces the gap caused by the incompatibility of these two dimensions, allows gender expression and contributes to the mental health of these people (3).

In the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition (DSM-5), distress is caused by gender mismatch, which is an inappropriate and harmful diagnostic method. In the International Classification of Diseases Code (ICD)–11, the Health Organization has suggested that relevant diagnoses be transferred to a new sexual health-related chapter (3).

Although the growth rate of gender reassignment in Iran does not necessarily indicate positive progress towards LGBTQ rights, it seems that SRS, despite aspects of threatening and responding to social demands, has been able to promote transgender health. Becoming a new version of yourself that is loved by the person and is considered a rebirth, liberation from the physical prison that does not belong to him, access to basic rights, the possibility of changing the name, obtaining a birth certificate and a driving license certificate based on the new gender, choosing clothes and finally eliminating the charge of homosexuality and the risk of execution (punishment for sodomy) is only part of the benefits of accompanying religious rule for transgender people. In Iran, the Imam Committee provides interest-free loans to some people eligible for gender reassignment surgery, which is in line with the recommendations of the WHO (2).

In the meantime, we are witnessing discrimination and ridicule from Iranian authorities aware of the act of SRS, conflicts in the minds of Trans people after gender reassignment surgery, and honor violence following gender reassignment surgery.

In Iran, the lack of training programs for health care professionals and mental health professionals in the field of transgender health is strongly felt. The treatment process in Iran does not comply with international medical and psychiatric standards and requires bedrock in the field of medical and psychological education (1). Our suggestion is to change the culture of the society towards Trans genders, to improve the quality of surgeries, to create a culture of dealing with these people, and finally to pass laws that will make life easier for them than before.

-https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9745420/

[DrEvil]

harvey is right. you can't use faith based personal experience to claim factual universals. especially when your retorts consist of asking others for 'sources' when they express an opinion.

while i explain my reasoning, giving you the opportunity to change my view by pointing out where my line of thinking has gone wrong, you withhold yours and state its factual.

I'm sorry, but what part of "it's not faith" is it you don't understand? It's faith the same way I have faith that things fall down if I drop them. I've dropped enough hints that you should be able to come up with some theory or other why I don't want to give more details, but it really doesn't matter, because it boils down to you either believing what I say or not, and what I'm saying is: you're wrong. I get that that's not much to go on, but that's all you're gonna get.

This is DeSantis level nonsense. One tries to get people to deny who they are, the other tries to help people become who they are.

since you love sources you'll love this!

Iran is the only Islamic country where the sex reassignment surgery (SRS) is recognized. Many European citizens travel to this Middle East country for gender confirmation and reassignment surgery. The Guardian wrote “Today, the Islamic Republic of Iran occupies the unlikely role of global leader for sex change” (2). Hence, Iran can be called the hell of homosexuals and the paradise of Trans seeking SRS.

Classical Islamic discourse divides gender as one of two categories, male or female, but has accepted the possibility that in the case of hermaphrodites it is difficult and sometimes impossible to determine the body. However, Ayatollah Khomeini, the Supreme Leader of the Iranian Revolution, once in 1964 in his book “Tahrir al-Wasila” and once after the Islamic Revolution in 1982, issued a fatwa on the act of reassignment and confirmation gender only for people whose faces are inconsistent with their gender and considered it legitimate and this issue became one of the emerging issues of Shia Islamic jurisprudence (2). According to the jurists, since it is not possible to change the soul, but at the same time medical advances have made it possible to change the body, the act of gender reassignment is permissible. Furthermore, according to Iranian civil law, each person receives a share of inheritance based on gender. For example, a Trans woman receives as much inheritance as a woman. In article 939 of the civil code of Iran, if in a transgender person sexual signs prevail over other gender signs, the person is subject to the rules of gender in which the symptoms are predominant. According to the Family Protection Law adopted in 2012, a person can refer to the family court to apply for gender matching (2).

On the other hand, in an article the authors did not distinguish between SRS and conversion therapy (1). What is common in Iran is SRS, not conversion therapy or reparative therapies. SRS has a guideline and is designed and approved by the World Professional Association for Transgender People (WPATH). It is a professional organization that has published the health care standards for transsexual, transgender and gender nonconforming people in the latest version (version 7). Psychologically, SRS is in line with the adaptation of physical body to sexual identity and reduces the gap caused by the incompatibility of these two dimensions, allows gender expression and contributes to the mental health of these people (3).

In the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition (DSM-5), distress is caused by gender mismatch, which is an inappropriate and harmful diagnostic method. In the International Classification of Diseases Code (ICD)–11, the Health Organization has suggested that relevant diagnoses be transferred to a new sexual health-related chapter (3).

Although the growth rate of gender reassignment in Iran does not necessarily indicate positive progress towards LGBTQ rights, it seems that SRS, despite aspects of threatening and responding to social demands, has been able to promote transgender health. Becoming a new version of yourself that is loved by the person and is considered a rebirth, liberation from the physical prison that does not belong to him, access to basic rights, the possibility of changing the name, obtaining a birth certificate and a driving license certificate based on the new gender, choosing clothes and finally eliminating the charge of homosexuality and the risk of execution (punishment for sodomy) is only part of the benefits of accompanying religious rule for transgender people. In Iran, the Imam Committee provides interest-free loans to some people eligible for gender reassignment surgery, which is in line with the recommendations of the WHO (2).

In the meantime, we are witnessing discrimination and ridicule from Iranian authorities aware of the act of SRS, conflicts in the minds of Trans people after gender reassignment surgery, and honor violence following gender reassignment surgery.

In Iran, the lack of training programs for health care professionals and mental health professionals in the field of transgender health is strongly felt. The treatment process in Iran does not comply with international medical and psychiatric standards and requires bedrock in the field of medical and psychological education (1). Our suggestion is to change the culture of the society towards Trans genders, to improve the quality of surgeries, to create a culture of dealing with these people, and finally to pass laws that will make life easier for them than before.

-https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9745420/

Why would I love this?

honor violence following gender reassignment surgery.

HAHA. Let's beat up some trans people! Just the kind of attitude you're promoting with your constant demonization of trans people and dragging in pedophilia at every opportunity. Has it ever occurred to you that you might be the problem? It's attitudes like yours that make trans people feel very much not welcome in our society, which in turn contributes at least in part to the higher suicide rates, because, shockingly, if you're constantly told there's something wrong with you, or how you feel is just part of an agenda to sexualize children, you might not feel too good about yourself.

Almost every time I come here now I have to double-check I didn't accidentally end up on OAN or DeSantis' Twitter feed.

[drstrangelove]

HAHA. Let's beat up some trans people! Just the kind of attitude you're promoting with your constant demonization of trans people and dragging in pedophilia at every opportunity. Has it ever occurred to you that you might be the problem?

^ this is why i think the neo-pride movement is a corpo psyop. the talking points are designed to alienate anyone who attempts to engage with it in good faith.

obviously i wouldn't think i'm possibly the problem since you don't even attempt to change my view from "telling children their bodies are causing them harm is causing them harm" to "telling children their bodies aren't causing them harm is causing them harm."

i do not believe children's bodies cause children harm.

[stickdog99]

^^That's not really helpful. You feel like this, so why don't you just feel like that instead? It's about as useful as telling someone with depression to just cheer up.

Or telling somebody who has been programmed by neoliberal talking points to wise up.

[Grizzly]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-12262959/CDC-advice-says-trans-women-safely-breastfeed-babies-doesnt-mention-health-risks.html


disgusting, I know, but some families may prefer the term 'bodyfeeding'

[DrEvil]

HAHA. Let's beat up some trans people! Just the kind of attitude you're promoting with your constant demonization of trans people and dragging in pedophilia at every opportunity. Has it ever occurred to you that you might be the problem?

^ this is why i think the neo-pride movement is a corpo psyop. the talking points are designed to alienate anyone who attempts to engage with it in good faith.

obviously i wouldn't think i'm possibly the problem since you don't even attempt to change my view from "telling children their bodies are causing them harm is causing them harm" to "telling children their bodies aren't causing them harm is causing them harm."

i do not believe children's bodies cause children harm.

I just think you're wrong, okay? I've already pointed out a couple of factual errors in your argument. The harm part is when you keep dragging in pedophilia and trying to connect that to the trans rights movement. That's an incredibly stigmatizing thing for someone to have to hear over and over and over again, and it really shouldn't come as a surprise that it may have a negative impact on some vulnerable young people's mental health.

And I'm sorry if I was harsh in my previous reply, but I genuinely think your argument is harmful to children who probably have enough shit to deal with already, and the Iran piece came across as a cheap gotcha - "look at these bad people doing something you agree with! Makes you think, huh?"

In the future, after typing out an argument and before hitting submit, read through it and replace trans with gay and see how it sounds. Does it suddenly sound bad? Maybe it's because it is.

[DrEvil]

^^That's not really helpful. You feel like this, so why don't you just feel like that instead? It's about as useful as telling someone with depression to just cheer up.

Or telling somebody who has been programmed by neoliberal talking points to wise up.

Call me old fashioned, but I prefer the neoliberal talking points over the paleoconservative talking points you all suddenly started spouting at the exact same time the right declared all out culture war on trans people. But sure, go on obsessing over people's genitals while they fuck you over in every conceivable way. At least you have a clearly defined enemy to direct your impotent rage at, which I'm sure is a completely accidental state of affairs.

[stickdog99]

Yeah, I'm a disgustingly evil right winger because I don't want to encourage little kids to become sterile lifelong mark$ for Big Pharma if they can possibly find a way to come to terms with the reproductive systems that they were born with.

And that's all you have to offer to this entire discussion: demonization of anyone who dares to disagree one iota with your new "progressive" quasi-religious talking points. Right?

My Research on Gender Dysphoria Was Censored. But I Won’t Be.

Trans activists forced the retraction of my paper. Their efforts have redoubled my commitment to the truth.

I am a professor of psychology at Northwestern University. I have been a professor for 34 years, and a researcher for 40. Over the decades, I have studied controversial topics—from IQ, to sexual orientation, to transsexualism (what we called transgenderism before 2015), to pedophilia. I have published well over 100 academic articles. I am best known for studying sexual orientation—from genetic influences, to childhood precursors of homosexuality, to laboratory-measured sexual arousal patterns.

My research has been denounced by people of all political stripes because I have never prioritized a favored constituency over the truth.

But I have never had an article retracted. Until now.

On March 29, I published an article in the prestigious academic journal Archives of Sexual Behavior. Less than three months later, on June 14, it was retracted by Springer Nature Group, the giant academic publisher of Archives, for an alleged violation of its editorial policies.

Retraction of scientific articles is associated with well-deserved shame: plagiarism, making up data, or grave concerns about the scientific integrity of a study. But my article was not retracted for any shameful reason. It was retracted because it provided evidence for an idea that activists hate.

...

Our article was published to a fair amount of attention. It was covered positively by the conservative press and also was retweeted widely both by families and others concerned about ROGD. But from the start, it got negative attention from trans activists and their political allies.

Almost immediately these activists began to lobby both the publisher of Archives of Sexual Behavior (Springer Nature Group) and the organization affiliated with the journal (International Academy of Sex Research, or IASR) to retract the article and to punish the editor of Archives, psychologist Kenneth Zucker, because he had published our work.

On May 5, a group of 100 academic activists and gender clinicians published an online Open Letter expressing “ethical” and “editorial concerns” about the journal and “serious concerns over research ethics and intellectual integrity” of our article. This was a pretext for their real complaint: dislike of certain ideas and the people responsible for them. That is clear from the open letter, which focuses less on our article and more on Ken Zucker.

Zucker is a giant figure in academic sex research, and especially the science of gender dysphoria. He helped found the Family Gender Identity Clinic in Toronto, one of the first international centers for the study and treatment of childhood and adolescent gender dysphoria. He was chosen by the American Psychiatric Association to chair the working group on Sexual and Gender Identity Disorders for the 2012 revision of its diagnostic manual, known as the DSM. Since 2002, he has edited Archives of Sexual Behavior, the most important academic journal covering research on sexuality, sex differences, and gender dysphoria.

But Zucker has also become a target of activist ire. That’s because he believes that gender dysphoria is a problem that should be treated, if possible, with psychotherapy to prevent transition rather than drugs and surgery to facilitate transition. Zucker’s most zealous critics accuse him of promoting “conversion therapy,” but this is incorrect. Conversion therapy is a religiously motivated attempt to change sexual orientation; it doesn’t work. Gender dysphoria, unlike sexual orientation, can change.

Zucker—like many others—wants to help youth avoid the psychosocial upheaval associated with gender transition and a lifetime of potentially unnecessary medical treatment. His position was almost universal until the past few years. The fact that it has become verboten is the result of a powerful activist movement that has been astonishing both in its effectiveness and its lack of scientific evidence.

Debate is essential to good science, but that is not what these activists want. They seek surrender. And that is what they got.

...


******

Just more despicable right wingers, like me, who need to be demonized and censored rather than engaged and debated. Right?

[Pele'sDaughter]

I'm with you, Stick. A trans woman will never be female no matter how hard they wish to be and cannot function properly as a woman in two of the primary capabilities of the female human: pregnancy and breast feeding. It's just not going to happen without a lot of dodgy "medical" procedures that have a high percentage of bad outcomes and cannot be reversed successfully. No wonder there's a high suicide rate among this group. Furthermore, there are attention seeking parents who influence their children to believe they're trans. No, I don't think catering to delusional people is the right "solution" to this dilemma.

[DrEvil]

Stickdog wrote:

Yeah, I'm a disgustingly evil right winger because I don't want to encourage little kids to become sterile lifelong mark$ for Big Pharma if they can possibly find a way to come to terms with the reproductive systems that they were born with.

Pretty sure I already commented on this, something along the lines of "give them the best care and counseling possible to ensure they're absolutely sure, or as close to as possible, that this is what they really want". And of course put an age limit on their ability to do anything irreversible (16 sounds reasonable to me). No one should have any kind of surgery until they're old enough to make an informed decision, and (ideally), by that time they've had enough time and support to be sure about it. Is it going to be perfect? Hell no. It's people, and people are stupid, easily influenced and change their minds, but that applies to everything. I simply don't care - it's their decision to make, and it has fuck-all to do with me, so live and let live. Some of them are going to end up regretting it. Shit happens.

And that's all you have to offer to this entire discussion: demonization of anyone who dares to disagree one iota with your new "progressive" quasi-religious talking points. Right?

Demonization, as opposed to neoliberal programming? It was a bullshit reply to your bullshit reply.

This is not a new belief for me, not even remotely, it's only recently it's become such a big issue that I felt the need to comment on it.

[Grizzly]

FBI surveillance at school board meetings - fact check.
hXXps://twitter.com/FBI/status/1679203593424093184
Change xx to tt...