Uvalde (& Mass shooting events - root causes, etc.)

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Re: Uvalde (& Mass shooting events - root causes, etc.)

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Fri Jun 03, 2022 3:26 am

Wombaticus Rex » 01 Jun 2022 23:54 wrote:This has been little discussed in massive Uvalde discourse:

Via Kens5

The boy and four others hid under a table that had a tablecloth over it, which may have shielded them from the shooter's view and saved their lives. The boy shared heartbreaking details about what happened in that room.

“When the cops came, the cop said: 'Yell if you need help!' And one of the persons in my class said 'help.' The guy overheard and he came in and shot her," the boy said. "The cop barged into that classroom. The guy shot at the cop. And the cops started shooting.”




JHFC


My kids' school had a lockdown drill the other day. Cause of this shit.

My kids are basically at Bluey's school. (I used to think the school in that show was based on their school. But its not.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluey_(2018_TV_series)
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Re: Uvalde (& Mass shooting events - root causes, etc.)

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Fri Jun 03, 2022 3:35 am

Looking from the outside US culture sees guns as a legitimate way to solve a multitude of problems.

In the old days when this site used to bang on about trauma based mind control it seemed pretty evident that a society where ongoing massacres were part of the spectacle was the long term aim in the US. Here we are.

But this song also kind of nails it.

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Re: Uvalde (& Mass shooting events - root causes, etc.)

Postby Belligerent Savant » Fri Jun 03, 2022 9:29 am

Joe Hillshoist » Fri Jun 03, 2022 2:07 am wrote:
Belligerent Savant » 29 May 2022 09:42 wrote:.
Current info available Re: details leading up to and timeframe during the shooting are perplexing and inexplicable.

Any info on how he entered the school? Schools in my area are locked at all times; every visitor has to press a button and announce themselves via intercom before they're buzzed in. Wouldn't this school be similar, or is TX/this district less secure? Will need to look into that.

In any event, if there was shooting outside the school minutes before entry, why wouldn't the doors have been locked at that point, if not already? Who would let anyone in if they heard shooting/commotion outside? Did the shooter break the door open somehow?


Schools in your area are like detention centres or prisons?

Wow.

(BTW I'm reading this thread at once so apologies if i'm all over the joint.)


Once classes are in session (after students are in their classrooms, etc), entry doors are locked by default. So a person can't simply walk into a school building. One must ring a bell to enter, as it is in most residential dwellings. No bars or barricades, though.

So no, not like a prison. That said, generally speaking, public schools in the U.S. share more traits with detention centers than with 'homes'. And it'll likely get worse in the months/years ahead.
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Re: Uvalde (& Mass shooting events - root causes, etc.)

Postby DrEvil » Fri Jun 03, 2022 2:37 pm

Joe Hillshoist » Fri Jun 03, 2022 9:18 am wrote:
DrEvil » 01 Jun 2022 05:15 wrote:
Justin Trudeau introduces strict gun control on handguns in Canada
"Other than using firearms for sport shooting and hunting, there is no reason anyone in Canada should need guns in their everyday lives."


I despise the man, but on this he's not wrong. There is absolutely no reason for anyone to have anything else than a hunting rifle and/or a shotgun in their house, and possibly a handgun that's locked in a safe at the gun range where you do sport shooting every weekend (no certified gun club membership, no handgun), plus some exceptions for collectors with strict oversight.

Also no guns to people guilty of violent crime, especially domestic violence, and a licensing process to prove you're fit to own a gun (background check, mental health, proficiency test), same way you have to prove you're fit and able to drive a car before you get a license to actually drive one.

And no public carry, whatsoever. The only valid reason to have a gun with you should be that you're on the way to a hunting trip or the range, and it should be unloaded and in a case/bag in the trunk of your car.


Do they have wild pigs in canada? Or other large dangerous animals? Packs of wild dogs etc etc.

Its not really hunting, more vermin control. If you have land with bush on it in Australia at some point you need to deal with those things. I'd rather shoot wild dogs than leave out 10-80.


Yeah, this is the kind of legitimate gun ownership I'm thinking about. I'm not opposed to all guns, there are perfectly good reasons to own one, and that's what I think should be the line: you need a good reason before you get one. "I want one" shouldn't be a good reason.

Alternately the US could follow the 2nd amendment to the letter and require every gun owner to be a member of a well regulated militia, and allow them the weapons and equipment specified in the second militia act of 1792:

Militia members were required to equip themselves with a musket, bayonet and belt, two spare flints, a box able to contain not less than 24 suitable cartridges, and a knapsack. Alternatively, everyone enrolled was to provide himself with a rifle, a powder horn, ¼ pound of gunpowder, 20 rifle balls, a shot-pouch, and a knapsack.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_A ... ct_of_1792
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Re: Uvalde (& Mass shooting events - root causes, etc.)

Postby Belligerent Savant » Fri Jun 03, 2022 2:42 pm

@arduatendit
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...
I wrote this up at work today. It's long but this invlolves many moving parts. It's inevitably missing information, but wanted to get something out as a spring board at least to spawn other questions/conversations. Again, this is just my opinion!

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https://twitter.com/arduatendit/status/ ... 1NaJptUd4w

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Re: Uvalde (& Mass shooting events - root causes, etc.)

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Fri Jun 03, 2022 9:01 pm

Belligerent Savant » 03 Jun 2022 23:29 wrote:
Joe Hillshoist » Fri Jun 03, 2022 2:07 am wrote:
Belligerent Savant » 29 May 2022 09:42 wrote:.
Current info available Re: details leading up to and timeframe during the shooting are perplexing and inexplicable.

Any info on how he entered the school? Schools in my area are locked at all times; every visitor has to press a button and announce themselves via intercom before they're buzzed in. Wouldn't this school be similar, or is TX/this district less secure? Will need to look into that.

In any event, if there was shooting outside the school minutes before entry, why wouldn't the doors have been locked at that point, if not already? Who would let anyone in if they heard shooting/commotion outside? Did the shooter break the door open somehow?


Schools in your area are like detention centres or prisons?

Wow.

(BTW I'm reading this thread at once so apologies if i'm all over the joint.)


Once classes are in session (after students are in their classrooms, etc), entry doors are locked by default. So a person can't simply walk into a school building. One must ring a bell to enter, as it is in most residential dwellings. No bars or barricades, though.

So no, not like a prison. That said, generally speaking, public schools in the U.S. share more traits with detention centers than with 'homes'. And it'll likely get worse in the months/years ahead.


I've never come across that at a school in Australia. Not when I was a kid and not now. If someone is walking around on a school who shouldn't be it will be dealt with by teachers or they'll call the cops but I've never heard of a school being locked to anyone once classes start.

Certainly if you visit you have to sign in and let the staff know you are there but that's about it.

When did this start?
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Re: Uvalde (& Mass shooting events - root causes, etc.)

Postby Belligerent Savant » Fri Jun 03, 2022 9:33 pm

.

You mean when did schools stop using barn doors for entrance? Haven't looked into it. But I recall, when I attended grade/elementary school in the 80s, the doors were typically kept closed (unable to be opened from the outside) while classes were in session. I'd expect that'd be the bare minimum security measure.
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Re: Uvalde (& Mass shooting events - root causes, etc.)

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Sun Jun 05, 2022 8:38 am

Fark...

Most schools in Australia are surrounded by fences that often don't have gates. No doors are locked. Except at elementary schools, they are kid locked... so a child can't open the gate to leave the premises because the gate opens with an upward latch about five feet above the ground. Its to stop kids running onto roads and getting cleaned up by cars as much as anything.
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Re: Uvalde (& Mass shooting events - root causes, etc.)

Postby MacCruiskeen » Sun Jun 12, 2022 9:07 pm

Please watch this two-minute set of film clips, which was posted to OffGuardian today. The interviews are from CNN and NBC:

https://www.brighteon.com/ec770476-8e6d ... fffc23e13c

Two separate "fathers" -- two clearly different men -- are interviewed about the same deceased "daughter" : once by Ander*s*n Coop*r for CNN, once by some other sanctimonious vulture for NBC. The child is named by her full name (Amerie Jo Garza), her age is stated (ten), and her face is shown (the same face in both cases).

One of the "fathers" -- big, bearded, older, on NBC -- speaks over a film of a fishing trip he says he took with Amerie:
the other "father" -- smaller, younger, wearing shades, on CNN -- is actually clutching a framed photo of the same girl while he's interviewed by Cooper.

If anyone can come up with an innocent explanation for this, please do so.
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Re: Uvalde (& Mass shooting events - root causes, etc.)

Postby Iamwhomiam » Sun Jun 12, 2022 9:51 pm

one click search to her obit explains one is her biological father and one is her stepfather.

https://www.hillcrestmemorialfuneralhome.com/obituaries/Amerie-Garza/#!/Obituary

You have no idea how cruel this type of dumbfuckery specious speculation is, do you?
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Re: Uvalde (& Mass shooting events - root causes, etc.)

Postby MacCruiskeen » Sun Jun 12, 2022 10:10 pm

There was nothing specious about my question and it was no speculation. Both CNN and NBC demonstrably said "father", not "stepfather".

You have no idea what competent and honest reporting looks like, nor do you care.

I am glad to hear that CNN and NBC did not actually stoop to inventing a bereavement (or at least not in this case), even though one of them did misrepresent a stepfather as a father. That is why I requested input from RI members. and, if possible, clarification:

MacCruiskeen » Sun Jun 12, 2022 8:07 pm wrote:[...]
If anyone can come up with an innocent explanation for this, please do so.


It's no surprise to see that you're incapable of providing such an explanation without accusing me, absurdly, gratuitously and with zero justification, of actual cruelty for even asking.
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Re: Uvalde (& Mass shooting events - root causes, etc.)

Postby Iamwhomiam » Sun Jun 12, 2022 10:58 pm

You're welcome for providing you with exactly what you asked for Mac, an innocent and factual explanation to end your confusion.

You have no idea what competent and honest reporting looks like, nor do you care.


If I didn't care about competent and honest reporting or know what it looks like, I would have left you in the confused state I found you in. The specious speculation was owned by the offG, but hey, if you want to wear their hat, go ahead.

If you care to listen carefully to Mrs. Vanderbuilt's son, Anderson Cooper, you will hear him only say "your daughter" and never refers to him as "Father." In fact, there is no mention of either the word "father" at all. While addressing each man, both reporters factual and accurately referred to the victim as "your daughter." The mistake is yours alone, mislead by the leading specious speculation of OffG and your own inherent conjecture.

How easy it would be for you to admit your error! I usually thank someone who corrects any misunderstanding I might have had. You heard things that weren't there to be heard and trusted a dubious source. You stand corrected.
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Re: Uvalde (& Mass shooting events - root causes, etc.)

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Mon Jun 13, 2022 2:47 am

Good to see you round Iam... hope you're still kicking goals.

Mac never admits it when he's wrong. He's just one of those people...

Someone showed me this Bill Maher thing the other day. I recognised his name from this site but didin't really know who he was. I've seen his vids before but never bothered remembering his name.



Its an interesting title.
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Re: Uvalde (& Mass shooting events - root causes, etc.)

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Mon Jun 13, 2022 2:50 am

I blame 9/11 myself...
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Re: Uvalde (& Mass shooting events - root causes, etc.)

Postby Belligerent Savant » Mon Jun 13, 2022 10:27 am

Joe Hillshoist » Mon Jun 13, 2022 1:47 am wrote:Good to see you round Iam... hope you're still kicking goals.

Mac never admits it when he's wrong. He's just one of those people...

Someone showed me this Bill Maher thing the other day. I recognised his name from this site but didin't really know who he was. I've seen his vids before but never bothered remembering his name.



Its an interesting title.


Maher's primary role increasingly seems to be to present reality in easy-to-digest nuggets/portions to a largely liberal audience. Practically the equivalent of tailoring 'adult' messages for children.

He touches on some important points that should be self-evident, but of course leaves out the more sinister -- yet all too real and recurring -- intel/cointelpro-esque angles to these shootings that are increasingly prominent (perhaps always so). Not every shooting involves intel ops, to be clear.

But my current take is this one did. And likely prior recent ones as well.

Case in point, shared earlier in this thread:

Wombaticus Rex » Fri May 27, 2022 9:41 am wrote:I don't think this is cross-posting because it may turn out to be directly relevant:

Via Buffalo News

Law enforcement officers are investigating whether a retired federal agent had about 30 minutes advance notice of a white supremacist's plans to murder Black people at a Buffalo supermarket, two law enforcement officials told The Buffalo News.
...
...


A breadcrumb, of course -- there won't be any metaphorical smoking guns on this sub-topic of federale/ops involvement.
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