US Presidential Election 2024

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024

Postby BenDhyan » Mon Dec 04, 2023 8:36 pm

Matt Gaetz suggests this Wapo item may be a not so subtle call for assassination?

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Let’s stop the wishful thinking and face the stark reality: There is a clear path to dictatorship in the United States, and it is getting shorter every day. In 13 weeks, Donald Trump will have locked up the Republican nomination. In the RealClearPolitics poll average (for the period from Nov. 9 to 20), Trump leads his nearest competitor by 47 points and leads the rest of the field combined by 27 points. The idea that he is unelectable in the general election is nonsense — he is tied or ahead of President Biden in all the latest polls — stripping other Republican challengers of their own stated reasons for existence.

Are we going to do anything about it? To shift metaphors, if we thought there was a 50 percent chance of an asteroid crashing into North America a year from now, would we be content to hope that it wouldn’t? Or would we be taking every conceivable measure to try to stop it, including many things that might not work but that, given the magnitude of the crisis, must be tried anyway?

Will those who balked at resisting Trump when the risk was merely political oblivion suddenly discover their courage when the cost might be the ruin of oneself and one’s family?


https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/11/30/trump-dictator-2024-election-robert-kagan/
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Re: US Presidential Election 2024

Postby stickdog99 » Tue Dec 05, 2023 11:19 pm

It's amazing to me that even after the biosecurity totalitarianism, authoritarian censorship, incessant warmongering, and runaway inflation of the last three years, "BUT TRUMP!!!" is still the only song playing (on infinite repeat) in the professional managerial establishment's jukebox.

Trump is truly the ruling establishment's best friend. Imagine how much anger the ruling establishment's PMC water carriers and handmaidens (not to mention the average debt ridden white collar urbanite) would have toward our current puppet "leaders" without Trump's specter.
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Re: US Presidential Election 2024

Postby Grizzly » Tue Dec 12, 2023 2:02 am

MSNBC used to sympathize with RFK Jr. on vaccines - 2005
https://rumble.com/v2ltszk-msnbc-used-t ... -2005.html
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Re: US Presidential Election 2024

Postby Grizzly » Sat Dec 16, 2023 2:45 pm

I guess you can be completely ignorant...

https://nitter.net/JeffWellsRigInt/status/1735988393090122019#m

Sooo frustrating Because he gets it on so many levels, except Is v Pal, guess he is an op. or at least a visitor of the Epstein's Island.
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Re: US Presidential Election 2024

Postby Grizzly » Fri Dec 29, 2023 7:40 pm

This has been going around with a Telegram link that I can't get to work, but I found it on youtube: CNN Rupars RFK Jr. so well that his own wife falls for it, then doubles down while interviewing him; full speech, in context is at the end.
(if you're unfamiliar, Rupar is a verb named after Vox "journalist" Aaron Rupar; it means "To completely mischaracterize a statement or video by omitting context.")

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024

Postby stickdog99 » Sun Dec 31, 2023 3:54 pm

War and Democide (18 minute video)

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024

Postby Elvis » Mon Jan 01, 2024 2:50 pm

I'd say the US government was stolen in 1963.


Grizzly » Sun Nov 05, 2023 1:28 pm wrote:https://noagendasocial.com/@BigSkyRider/111358867225485378
https://noagendasocial.com/@BigSkyRider ... 7225485378

Speaking of neocon's...

heh... I'm still amused by all of the people sitting around in their 3rd year of a stolen government, telling themselves they're going to get a chance to vote in 2024. Biden isn't going to run in opposition to big mike anyways.


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Re: US Presidential Election 2024

Postby Elvis » Mon Jan 01, 2024 3:12 pm

Haha...Robert Kagan...notorious neocon married to notorious neocon Victoria Nuland.

Kagan's fear is not dictatorship, but that Trump will recklessly derail the neocon project. The Blob can't always contain independent presidential actions.

Other than that, the financial industry runs the show in the US, and as long as Big Finance (including health insurance) isn't threatened, they don't care who's president.

In contrast to the careful planning of the "Trumanite" foreign policy Blob, Trump is improvisational—impulses to use nukes in Afghanistan, invade Venezuela, bomb Mexico, etc.—and I'm thankful the Blob stopped him. Damn them to Hell anyway.

BenDhyan » Mon Dec 04, 2023 5:36 pm wrote:Matt Gaetz suggests this Wapo item may be a not so subtle call for assassination?

Image
Let’s stop the wishful thinking and face the stark reality: There is a clear path to dictatorship in the United States, and it is getting shorter every day. In 13 weeks, Donald Trump will have locked up the Republican nomination. In the RealClearPolitics poll average (for the period from Nov. 9 to 20), Trump leads his nearest competitor by 47 points and leads the rest of the field combined by 27 points. The idea that he is unelectable in the general election is nonsense — he is tied or ahead of President Biden in all the latest polls — stripping other Republican challengers of their own stated reasons for existence.

Are we going to do anything about it? To shift metaphors, if we thought there was a 50 percent chance of an asteroid crashing into North America a year from now, would we be content to hope that it wouldn’t? Or would we be taking every conceivable measure to try to stop it, including many things that might not work but that, given the magnitude of the crisis, must be tried anyway?

Will those who balked at resisting Trump when the risk was merely political oblivion suddenly discover their courage when the cost might be the ruin of oneself and one’s family?


https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/11/30/trump-dictator-2024-election-robert-kagan/
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Re: US Presidential Election 2024

Postby Elvis » Mon Jan 01, 2024 3:15 pm

"Runaway inflation" is a little overwrought. It's not running away, it's falling.


stickdog99 » Tue Dec 05, 2023 8:19 pm wrote:It's amazing to me that even after the biosecurity totalitarianism, authoritarian censorship, incessant warmongering, and runaway inflation of the last three years, "BUT TRUMP!!!" is still the only song playing (on infinite repeat) in the professional managerial establishment's jukebox.

Trump is truly the ruling establishment's best friend. Imagine how much anger the ruling establishment's PMC water carriers and handmaidens (not to mention the average debt ridden white collar urbanite) would have toward our current puppet "leaders" without Trump's specter.
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Re: US Presidential Election 2024

Postby Grizzly » Sat Jan 06, 2024 3:07 pm


The Immortal Impact Of JFK On American Politics | The Kennedy Half-Century | Real History

"Real History" /s

Regardless of your views on RFK jr it would be amazing to see his support reach a critical mass so that the media are forced to allow him to debate Trump and Biden to bring more public awareness to some of his views. That the masses need to know about.

But, there probably wont be a debate. Maybe we're done with that.
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Re: US Presidential Election 2024

Postby Grizzly » Sun Jan 21, 2024 10:19 pm

“The more we do to you, the less you seem to believe we are doing it.”

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024

Postby JackRiddler » Mon Jan 22, 2024 1:21 pm

Elvis » Mon Jan 01, 2024 2:15 pm wrote:"Runaway inflation" is a little overwrought. It's not running away, it's falling.


stickdog99 » Tue Dec 05, 2023 8:19 pm wrote:It's amazing to me that even after the biosecurity totalitarianism, authoritarian censorship, incessant warmongering, and runaway inflation of the last three years, "BUT TRUMP!!!" is still the only song playing (on infinite repeat) in the professional managerial establishment's jukebox.

Trump is truly the ruling establishment's best friend. Imagine how much anger the ruling establishment's PMC water carriers and handmaidens (not to mention the average debt ridden white collar urbanite) would have toward our current puppet "leaders" without Trump's specter.


Furthermore, the inflation since 2020 was not (and probably won't be, if it resumes) caused by fiscal or monetary policy (other than by inaction to stop windfall profit-taking, a measure that Nixon was willing to take).

It was supply shocks from Covidianism (a government policy, yes, internationally, and one initiated under Trump, not that a Democrat would have been different) and then the Ukraine proxy war (ditto).

These in turn served as signals allowing price-setters to collude without having to meet and agree on collusion. More than half of the price increase has been accounted in record corporate profits and it's laughable to think Trump would have differed in doing nothing about it (on that or on imperialism, although surely his favored war is not with Russia but with China and Mexico; both sides of the false binary seem to be agreeing on Iran). Isabella Weber has done great work on this case of "sellers' inflation" and is leading a small revolution among economists, and I challenge anyone not named Elvis to go find her stuff online. (I'm assuming you have, Elvis.)

Also notwithstanding: what the de-dollarization trend, now being organized and driven hard by U.S. sanctions (rather than monetary policy) may wreak.

Among those parts of the leftist community with which I tend most to agree, there is a regrettable and naive see-no-evil tendency regarding Trump, the attempted coup d'etat of January 6th, and the larger rise of nativist old-style fascism in the U.S. that MAGA has captured.

We've gone over this a million times here, pointlessly, and within an exceedingly small circle of posters who mostly repeat themselves (or post repetitive meme and youtuber stuff). But once every hundred pages on this infinite thread I'll bother to mention it.

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024

Postby Belligerent Savant » Mon Jan 22, 2024 3:00 pm

.
My brief added comment, at this time, is to simply state that it's (minimally) naive to equate 'fascism' (whatever iteration) to Trump alone (if indeed you are suggesting this -- perhaps I'm misreading). Both establishment parties in the U.S. have demonstrated and carried out clear-cut, brazen acts of fascism (most prominently by the current administration, due in large part -- but not only -- to covid-related policies. As you point out, Trump was/is certainly complicit with his "warp speed"/lockdown implementations back in 2020, etc).

And sorry, but it's increasingly apparent now that Jan 6th was not a "coup d'etat" attempt, regardless of how many times you opt to insert that into your talking points. Trump is, among other things, a limited hangout/controlled opposition. One need only to observe, soberly, the events that transpired since Jan 6th to see that the dominant narratives as presented on that day, and since -- from both 'sides' -- were not the 'reality' of the situation.
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Ooof... plus some BAD HISTORY from Wm. Hogeland

Postby JackRiddler » Mon Jan 22, 2024 4:34 pm

1. Yes, of course it was a coup d'etat attempt, incompetent and hopeless, but as clear cut as these things get. Thousands of followers assembled in a square in response to the earlier public call of their leader, the sitting president, to meet there. The leader's speech called on them to go overthrow the procedural government and give him an extended term as president. They went out and attempted to do so. But they weren't that many and they sucked at it, and most of them were not even remotely shock-troop nazi types, like the Proud Boys pretend to be, but typical American fatties doing weekend sports and hoping for a quick movie-style denouement. Meanwhile some final lackeys the leader had appointed to various security positions at Defense and DHS in the last weeks of his administration crapped out, and rather than helping in a way that would expose them, made themselves scarce. So it failed, and the leader called on his followers to back down -- following which he's spent years praising them for their beautiful performance and promising that next time he'll do much better at being an efficient dictator or Caesar. All that is open and shut, merely the description of a public performance. (And to preclude what often gets said at this point, none of this obvious, obvious shit need be taken to imply support for the Democrats or the current "incumbent." It's not my fallacy that seeing and saying the obvious about these gangster dealings means I must therefore have to defend the misdeeds and atrocities of the Democrats, or of the empire, or of the system as a whole, etc. etc.)

2. Regarding fascism, I wrote what I wrote. It's a whole sentence. You can read it again if it confuses you.

* * * * * * * *

Meanwhile, here's my man William Hogeland - a historian of the Early American period we all benefit from reading.

His new release is called The Hamilton Scheme: An Epic Tale of Money and Power in the American Founding and can be pre-ordered from the publisher.

Find Hogeland on Twitter. (While you're at it, give me some love too.)


William Hogeland in the BAD HISTORY blog wrote:I'm violently misquoted by "The Atlantic"
. . . which only exposes the more important problem.


William Hogeland

Jan 22 (link)


I wouldn’t necessarily have noticed a thoroughly garbled dispute between Ross Douthat of The New York Times and Adam Serwer of The Atlantic, regarding the meaning of the word “insurrection”—with reference, of course, to Trump, January 6, and Section Three of Fourteenth Amendment—had Serwer not flagrantly misquoted my book The Whiskey Rebellion to make an erroneous point that the book in fact contradicts. I don’t like seeing my work frogmarched against its nature into misinformed argumentation, but beyond Serwer’s citation error—a hard one to make by accident, though who knows—the main issue for BAD HISTORY is how utterly out-of-it these supposedly brainy writers, working for the few remaining supposedly quality periodicals, can get when they’re trying to lever the American past into their middlebrow news-hook clickbait arguments regarding current politics.

Serwer and Douthat were arguing about that most boring of all current topics: whether the attack on the Capitol by Trump supporters on January 6, 2021, counts as an insurrection for the purposes of applying Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment to keep Trump off electoral ballots for 2024. You may not be surprised to know that I can’t imagine how the attack on the Capitol doesn’t count as an insurrection, but who cares what I or anyone else calls it? No president before Trump, and no presidents’ supporters before his, have used violence to try to stop the constitutional process of electoral certification in order to reverse an election result and thereby keep a defeated incumbent illegally and, for all we know, perpetually in office. Call it what you want.

But because insurrection is a crime, and definitional arguments would be bound to be part and parcel of any defense against such a charge, prosecutors of Trump have wisely avoided charging him with it. The definition matters now, to the professionally furrowed-browed, because law professors have ginned up a notion that under Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment, Trump can be kept off the ballot for insurrection —and hey, maybe he can! The section makes little practical sense. It has a bad history all its own. But so do hallowed constitutional provisions like the Second Amendment. If the Supreme Court somehow rules the law profs’ way on Section 3—a big “if”—the ploy might actually work.

One place the issue won’t be settled is in the opinion pages. That won’t stop opinion writers from striving to settle it there—great rafts of words have to be posted every day, without fail—and that’s how we have Douthat and Serwer bringing their intellects to bear on the question of what “insurrection” means in Section 3 and resorting, for proof, as opinion writers seemingly must do, to American history, which plainly shows, according to Douthat, that January 6 was not an insurrection, a term that he thinks can refer only to “the kind of broad political-military rebellion that occasioned [the section’s] original passage [the Confederacy’s secession] . . . the hypothetical raising of a Trumpist Army of Northern Virginia, say, or the seizure of the U.S. Capitol by a Confederate States of Trumpist America.”

Because writers like Serwer and law profs like Ilya Somin have brought up the Whiskey Rebellion as an example of an event much smaller than the Confederacy’s secession yet clearly also an insurrection, Douthat goes to some lengths to show—correctly enough—that while that rebellion was indeed comparatively small, it was nevertheless an organized, ongoing, armed effort at secession, not a one-off attack like January 6, which somehow, to him, remains thereby ruled out of the definition.

Douthat is right about the nature of the Whiskey Rebellion. His argument is also fatally garbled. To prove that Section 3 can apply only to the situations he wants it to apply to, he has to shove relevant historical examples into boxes where they won’t fit. For one thing: Who says January 6 doesn’t, like the Whiskey Rebellion, represent “an incipient political formation,” as Douthat implies without arguing the point? Bringing in a whole new standard like that, sold only via emphasis, and not mentioned in Section 3, can only lead to further back-and-forth definitions of terms, and round and round we go. Which is evidently what the audience for this kind of display wants to see in its periodical literature.

Here’s how embarrassingly lame the whole thing can get. Serwer, I guess to show that while the Whiskey Rebellion was an insurrection, which of course it was, as Douthat naturally agrees, and yet to deny that it had the “incipient political formation” for secession that Douthat claims it had, which it did, and that it therefore resembles the January 6 attack, which—if only the bright-boys could get beyond their proliferating, self-created category errors—it does, takes issue with Douthat’s assertion that the whiskey rebels flew a six-striped flag representing five Pennsylvania counties and one county in western Virginia. To Douthat that flag reflects incipient political formation.

The rebels did fly it. To Serwer, though, it becomes important that they didn’t. Because Douthat says they did.

Evidently Serwer decided to consult my book The Whiskey Rebellion. On page 182, as anyone can plainly see, I say that the rebels flew the six-striped flag that Douthat’s referring to. I’m not the only one who says so: I based my description on eyewitness accounts in the primary record. Key secondary sources also note the flying of the flag (Douthat cites an important scholar of the rebellion, Wythe Holt). On later pages, I mention the flag again. And again.

While Serwer got no help from my text in his quest to prove Douthat wrong about the flag’s existence, for no reason necessary to the argument, he did find an endnote where—along with plainly citing my sources for the manifest existence of the actual flag—I cite a vexillologist in noting that a certain flag displayed as a Whiskey Rebellion flag in a hotel in western Pennsylvania isn’t actually an example of one. The note reads:

“The flag is described by Brackenridge in Incidents, by Gallatin in his statement to U.S. Rawle, and in the federal commissioners’ letter to [U.S. Secretary of State] Randolph of 8/17/1794.” [ . . . ] the flag now displayed at the Century Inn in Scenery Hill, Pennsylvania, is unlikely to have been a flag of the rebellion—and might have been a regimental flag of the suppressing federal army.


Here’s how Serwer used that note, in erroneous contradiction of Douthat’s garbled argument regarding the flying of a six-striped flag:

. . . as the historian William Hogeland notes in The Whiskey Rebellion, the six-striped flag “is unlikely to have been a flag of the rebellion—and might have been a regimental flag of the suppressing federal army."


Obviously, the last thing I was saying is that the six-striped flag that Douthat referred to wasn’t a rebel flag—I asserted that it was, cited the sources that prove it, and suggested that a flag on display as an example isn’t a real example. When I said above that this was a hard error for Serwer to make, you can see what I mean. The text to which the note refers say that the rebels flew the six-striped flag; the note from which Serwer clipped his misleading version, cites the sources. It’s all glaringly clear.

So I don’t know what could have happened there. At best: sheer blind haste in making a totally unimportant point, contra Douthat? Underpaid, overworked assistant search-and-grab? Maybe. Utter absence of serious fact-checking, for sure.

What’s revealed, whatever the motives and process: This is the flagrant bullshit that all too often passes for intelligent discussion about the nation’s history among sophisticated liberaloid readers, writers, and editors trying to win silly arguments. And all too often among lawyers and judges. Make it stop.

_________

Punchline! I just checked and found a correction made (I’d been hocking The Atlantic on Twitter). All reference to my book is now cut, with this note at the bottom:

This article previously stated that it was not clear if one of the flags flown by the Whiskey Rebels was their flag, but it was in fact theirs.


. . .

Wha . . . ?

Color me incredulous.

HOGELAND'S BAD HISTORY is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

© 2024 William Hogeland
548 Market Street PMB 72296, San Francisco, CA 94104



To this he could have added:

1) I don't know if XIV Art. 3 was ever invoked after a brief period in 1868-72 but if so, then very rarely. (Wait, of course it was - in 1919 against a Socialist member of Congress who had been convicted under the "Espionage" Act, see CRS report, here p. 2: the Socialist was allowed to be seated after his Espionage conviction was voided.)

2) It served its function mainly as a threat, briefly, and then became irrelevant, because...

3) After Appomattox and Lincoln's assassination, Andrew Johnson got most of a year to pursue "Presidential Reconstruction" without Congress in session and spent much of it pardoning and reenfranchising Confederate officers and officials (at least 700 of them) in exchange for some perfunctory loyalty oath. The Republican Congress reconvened in December to quash that for a few years, but the horse was out of the barn, as they used to say. The Radical Republicans stormed in, made a number of Southern Senators and Representatives who had showed up to play Congress as if nothing had happened go home, and enacted a Congressional Reconstruction with some muscle to it in various ways, including passage of the XIVth amendment. Art. 3 was in part an effort to reverse Johnson's indiscriminate pardoning. Most everyone it might have affected was already either pardoned or never going to run for office again, or busy being the KKK for a few years, but a number of cases were brought and office-holders challenged, until the federal Amnesty Act of 1872. It was never definitively established whether invocation of Art. 3 required a prior conviction. I expect courts today will rule invocation does require conviction in a prior criminal case for insurrection (or the like), as they did in 1919. Even at the height of Reconstruction, precious few such criminal cases were endeavored against Confederate officers & officials.

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024

Postby Belligerent Savant » Tue Jan 23, 2024 12:44 pm

.
"MAGA" is absolutely not the sole 'owner'/''purveyor' of fascism trends in America. Clearly/demonstrably, and as a number of us have been articulating here over the last few years across threads, not to mention many others elsewhere -- Fascist ideology/policy implementation has been brazen and overt from the Biden administration from the start, and ALSO from a subset of those that self-identify as "left"/"progressive" in their compliance with (and at times, ardent/zealous support of) blatantly fascist policies and actions since 2020 (though of course the trends were developing for years prior). This includes recent military action and other restrictive/repressive measures being either implemented or threatened to be implemented ostensibly to 'mitigate' a number of 'crises' (health, climate, domestic terrorists, racism, etc). This is not to say there aren't issues within each of these topics that require a form of action, but restrictive/repressive govt actions/policies that increase centralized power, diminish citizen agency as recognized historically, & suppress thought/expression are never justifiable.

Your reading of the Jan 6th event is purely based on front-facing reporting. You're either forcefully closing your eyes (willful blindness) to the many dubious aspects of the front-facing narratives or simply refusing to dig deeper. I've no interest in re-hashing these old arguments at this point as there are too many other power-grab/horror show events that have transpired since then, but let's agree to disagree on this.

I will, however, share a clip of Glen Greenwald (who I don't fully endorse by any means, but appreciate some of his takes) going into detail on the topic of a claimed "coup" -- on a venue that I certainly don't promote and wasn't even aware existed until coming across this clip (with some 'panelists' that are, at best, gatekeepers and/or limited hangouts on their own). Interpret/digest as you deem fit. There is some insipid/obnoxious editing of content in the video clip (mind-numbingly stupid sound effects, etc), but Glen raises a number of valid points, without needing to delve into some of the debatable/disputable/'conspiratorial' aspects of the events on that day:

https://x.com/KanekoaTheGreat/status/17 ... 14043?s=20

KanekoaTheGreat
@KanekoaTheGreat
·
Glenn Greenwald calmly explains to Destiny and the Krassensteins that January 6th wasn't an insurrection, and Donald Trump did not attempt a coup.

[Video at link]
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