rigorousintuition.ca

In case you have not run across this eye-opening page
https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/





And many many more!

pre-proto-collapse of a postwar imperial industrial order

interesting

"WTF Happened in 1971" is a right-wing website pushing Austrian economics---the laughing stock of the economics field. The site blames the abandonment of the gold standard (another rightwing fetish) for today's economic ills, and promotes bitcoin as the solution.

The charts & graphs are useful & informative, but they do not tell the story of "what happened" as the website imagines.

What really happened was a gradual, systematic takeover of economic thought, funded by Koch network billions. The tale is brilliantly told in this book, "Democracy in Chains" by Nancy MacLean (I've posted about MacLean's work elsewhere on the forum). I can't recommend it enough:

That's not my argument. My contention is that "WTF Happened in 1971" is simply mistaken---for the reasons I cited.

If you want to try to defend Austrian economics and Murray Rothbard (the site's hero), let's go!

Belligerent Savant » Wed Apr 17, 2024 1:02 pm wrote:“That’s a right wing talking point”

I love that graph there SonicG, thx. Say what you will about austrian economics, there is no way fedboy could have borrowed 30+ trillion with gold in the financial system. That's why it had to be abandoned. We had alot of wars to fight and space rockets to launch.

Did not in any way use "that's a right-wing talking point" as his argument.

Rather, he refuted the stupid argument (the misattribution to "gummint spending" of what neoliberal and libertarian economics have wrought upon the people) and in the process also correctly identified said stupid argument as coming, in this case, from a class-war think-tank funded by right-wing money. That would be the real class war, the one on the working class and everyone else outside the 1% and their personal service professionals, which started its ongoing long offensive somewhere right around... oh look at that, 1971!

The reasons for what we’re currently collectively experiencing go far beyond the stupid/largely insipid confines of ‘right wing/‘left wing’ talking points as traditionally socialized— even if the author of the website, in this instance, is indeed ‘right wing’ in intent. The contributing factors go beyond that.

It’s obtuse at this point to continue presenting/limiting responses in such outdated (and wedge-creating) constructs

The reasons for "what we're currently collectively experiencing" are capitalism, the acceptance of warfare as a solution to anything, human stupidity and stubborness, and the degradation of language and its attachment to the real world to the point where most people, especially the educated, can no longer understand left and right and why it mattered and should matter again.

.
Yes/agreed, though I'd qualify 'capitalism' a bit there, as I don't believe incentives that inspire innovation and enterprise, within reason, are 'bad' things. Since the earlier 20th Century we've had a number of socialist programs baked into U.S. forms of Capitalism, which worked pretty well for a period of time. We still have some of these socialist programs (social security, pensions, unions, etc), but they're being increasingly ransacked by the interests/aims of the very few.

Problem with capitalism is when it leads (inevitably) to forms of crony Capitalism ("Crony capitalism, sometimes also called simply cronyism, is a pejorative term used in political discourse to describe a situation in which businesses profit from a close relationship with state power, either through an anti-competitive regulatory environment, direct government largesse, and/or corruption", per Wikipedia. Not a bad description); one can argue our current form is feudalism coupled with totalitarian elements, the modern version of which include 'bread & circuses' distractions found across social media, sports, and entertainment, all implicitly or explicitly promoting & incentivizing participation in affronts to the majority.

'Communism' in its real-world application has never worked either, in part because it also has led to corrupted forms when implemented broad-scale.

Perhaps we should consider a move to an agrarian, relatively spartan lifestyle. I'm leaning in this direction as years progress.

Thank you! Perfectly put.

JackRiddler » Thu Apr 18, 2024 9:27 am wrote:Did not in any way use "that's a right-wing talking point" as his argument.

Rather, he refuted the stupid argument (the misattribution to "gummint spending" of what neoliberal and libertarian economics have wrought upon the people) and in the process also correctly identified said stupid argument as coming, in this case, from a class-war think-tank funded by right-wing money. That would be the real class war, the one on the working class and everyone else outside the 1% and their personal service professionals, which started its ongoing long offensive somewhere right around... oh look at that, 1971!

Belligerent Savant wrote:Problem with capitalism is

I'd say the problem with capitalism emerges when citizens are left with no power and are saddled with excessive debts to the financial industry. Pretty much a straight line to neofeudalism.

Regulation fixes that.

.
Yes: Regulation -- in a relatively fair and non-captured system -- would fix that.
However: I believe it's patently clear that our current system is highly captured, corrupt, and compromised. Perhaps irrevocably, at least for the foreseeable future.

The answer is mass-scale non-compliance and non-participation in this broken system. But that also requires large-scale awareness that there will never be any earnest reform or regulation within this system; only continued posturing, theatrics, and cronyism.
(And worse: within the current system we will observe continued larger-scale impoverishment of the middle & lower-classes, increased subjugation and control of populations, and incrementally higher mortality rates, all while the very few accumulate more wealth and longevity)

"That escalated quickly."

Elvis » Thu Apr 18, 2024 2:44 am wrote:The charts & graphs are useful & informative, but they do not tell the story of "what happened" as the website imagines.

I didn't realize that it was a "right-wing" site...I am more interested in the rise of the USD in dominating the world economy and the current move to overcome/overturn that hegemony, create a multipolar world, something that might no necessarily be orthodox left or right.

Speaking of economic orthodoxy:

The last three weeks have been remarkable ... why ... leading economic figures have come out and said the narratives pushed in Econ classes and policies pushed by orthodox economists for the last 40+ years have been wrong ...

This started with Nobel prize winner Angus Deaton observing the Economics profession not only didn't predict the Great Financial Crisis but contributed to its occurring.

It went on with Janet Yellen observing the Economics profession cheered the idea of saying Thank You for cheap goods without understanding the "cost" of these goods was outsourcing your industrial base and making yourself dependent on another country that might not have your best interests at heart.

And then it culminated in Mario Draghi linking both of these together and observing this also undermined society.

In effect, these three individuals have said "Economists you screwed up so badly you need to shut-up for a long period of time while we figure out and implement policies to recover from your policy recommendations"

https://twitter.com/tyillc/status/1780665317854769597

I agree with this approach---which asks a better question, "WTF happened in 1944?" i.e. Bretton Woods. That agreement marked the institutionalization of US dollar dominance, something that made more sense right after WWII when the US was the only great power left standing. However, Keynes' superior idea of the bancor---a supranational currency used only for international exchange---lost out to US demands that the dollar serve that role. The US has of course ever since used its dollar dominance to further its hegemony.

One inconsistency I note among those concerned about both 'loss of reserve currency status' and '"printing" too much money': for the USD to be the world reserve currency, the US must supply the rest of the world with USD.

I like the Richard Field Tweet, of course. I follow him on Twitter! Down with the orthodoxy!

SonicG » Fri Apr 19, 2024 7:02 am wrote:"That escalated quickly."

Elvis » Thu Apr 18, 2024 2:44 am wrote:The charts & graphs are useful & informative, but they do not tell the story of "what happened" as the website imagines.

I didn't realize that it was a "right-wing" site...I am more interested in the rise of the USD in dominating the world economy and the current move to overcome/overturn that hegemony, create a multipolar world, something that might no necessarily be orthodox left or right.

Speaking of economic orthodoxy:

The last three weeks have been remarkable ... why ... leading economic figures have come out and said the narratives pushed in Econ classes and policies pushed by orthodox economists for the last 40+ years have been wrong ...

This started with Nobel prize winner Angus Deaton observing the Economics profession not only didn't predict the Great Financial Crisis but contributed to its occurring.

It went on with Janet Yellen observing the Economics profession cheered the idea of saying Thank You for cheap goods without understanding the "cost" of these goods was outsourcing your industrial base and making yourself dependent on another country that might not have your best interests at heart.

And then it culminated in Mario Draghi linking both of these together and observing this also undermined society.

In effect, these three individuals have said "Economists you screwed up so badly you need to shut-up for a long period of time while we figure out and implement policies to recover from your policy recommendations"

https://twitter.com/tyillc/status/1780665317854769597