Cannonfire is leaving

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Cannonfire is leaving

Postby sunny » Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:20 pm

Except he keeps posting. go on over there. As many of you know, he is a vehement critic of CD theories. (so is Jeff, but Jeff has not made a practice of deleting pro-CD comments, and at least Jeff avers CD may be possible) Starting with a post about an e-mail he received from Hopsicker (which was asinine in the extreme) Joe has been hinting he's giving up his blog. He has been especially insulting to his audience in the comments. A couple of random examples:

(Some readers will no doubt take this post as an invitation to offer a recitation on the familiar theme of "Democrats are just as bad as Republicans." Even if I ask those readers not to do it, they will do it anyways, due to an inflexible response mechanism. When the audience makes you break out in hives, it's time to leave the stage.)


I wrote a simple post about what I consider a self-destructive attitude. Only one or two people attempted to address that topic. The rest veered off into weirdness. A dull and predictable sort of weirdness.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: The CD buffs are religious zealots. They are missionaries who do not leave your doorstep even when you yell "Go away!"

As objective traffic tools will tell anyone, my stats go DOWN when this conspiratorial crap appears. And it's not as though I make any money on this site.

If you people think I'm hungry for a wider audience, think again. For Christmas, I want fewer but better readers.


From the Hopsicker post:
http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/2006/12/ ... ition.html

While I have only skimmed these remarks (while holding my nose), I do want to thank all the above writers. Especially the ones who insisted that I printed the above post to increase stats, even though I had already made clear that this topic drives the audience down. But of course, mere reality does not matter to CD enthusiasts.

Now I know that the audience for this blog consists of pseudoscience buffs who, when one physicist in Utah takes a stance against every other scientist in the world, goes for the one over the many.

Thanks, guys. You've made my decision easier.

Of course, you can simply presume that my eldritch NWO masters made the decision for me. Or just go neener neener neener. I can't care: There's plenty of worse shit to care about.
# posted by Joseph : 5:54 PM


And this comment came after many commenters had offered reasoned arguments, not ad hominem attacks, or wild "pod" theories and such. Go read it. I'll never feel the same about Hopsicker. Apparently, he believes that coke snorting whore hopping drug running (according to his own investigations) Arabs, were, nevertheless, religious zealots who hated us for our freedom, and in fact the official version was correct, except the gov't covered up a huge drug bust and that's what they are hiding.
Choose love
sunny
 
Posts: 5220
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 10:18 pm
Location: Alabama
Blog: View Blog (1)

Postby nomo » Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:40 pm

And you are surprised by this? Just read the endless discussions about the topic on this very board. The three or so admitted skeptics on CD have alternately been called "left gate keepers" or "paid disinfo agents" and when we're not being called ignoramuses, some CD nut will openly advocate the gallows for us.

Seriously, with friends like that, who needs friends?
User avatar
nomo
 
Posts: 3388
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 1:48 pm
Location: New York City
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby rrapt » Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:48 pm

I dumped Xymphora off my list a year ago for the reason that he had a bug up his ass on one issue and refused to face the facts. Makes one wonder who these guys are working for. Reminds me a lot of our own qutb. Where is that familiar voice of reason anyway.

If one doesn't think this is a serious problem I highly recommend GC's post below on MKULTRA, which links to a video of a guy with personal experience as a victim/participant in that field.
rrapt
 
Posts: 253
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 8:27 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby sunny » Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:49 pm

Not really surprised. I see where you are coming from, but there are good reasoned arguments in favor of CD. (go read thread entitled "This is remarkable") Calling proponents of this theory "religious zealots" also does not help the discourse. Deleting ad hominem comments is perfectly reasonable, but he called people names after some of them had posted good arguments. He does not engage the arguments.

My main point is Joe seems to be endorsing Hopsickers theory, which seems to me to be ridiculous.
Choose love
sunny
 
Posts: 5220
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 10:18 pm
Location: Alabama
Blog: View Blog (1)

Postby Rigorous Intuition » Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:03 pm

emailed Joe:

I've avoided the 9/11 morass lately, other than to point readers to Hopsicker, because it's become so damn depressing. It's as if there is nothing - NOTHING! - to hear but demolition. And those of us who don't buy it - well, there MUST be some reason why we don't.

It sickens me. The bad guys won again. 9/11 Truthers think they have them cornered over here, while actually they're dancing the hokey-pokey over there.

chin up,

Jeff
Rigorous Intuition
 
Posts: 1744
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 3:36 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Oh brother.

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:45 pm

Rigorous Intuition wrote:emailed Joe:

I've avoided the 9/11 morass lately, other than to point readers to Hopsicker, because it's become so damn depressing. It's as if there is nothing - NOTHING! - to hear but demolition.


Only because it is the BIGGEST hoax being used as an excuse to eliminate the Constitution with fascism. Good enough reason for ya, Jeff?

And those of us who don't buy it - well, there MUST be some reason why we don't.


You "don't buy" Sir Isaac Newton's laws of physics like Conservation of Momentum which proves controlled demolition because the towers can't fall that fast without being blown up??!!

Well, there must be some reason. Care to spell it out?

It sickens me. The bad guys won again. 9/11 Truthers think they have them cornered over here, while actually they're dancing the hokey-pokey over there.


Both dances of deceit and destruction are being done, the one over here enabling the one over there.

You're awfully clever on other topics, Jeff.
What's blocking your respect for the laws of physics? Too obvious for parapolitics, perhaps?

Squinting through a microscope can make it hard to focus on the elephant in the room.
CIA runs mainstream media since WWII:
news rooms, movies/TV, publishing
...
Disney is CIA for kidz!
User avatar
Hugh Manatee Wins
 
Posts: 9869
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:51 pm
Location: in context
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Seamus OBlimey » Tue Dec 19, 2006 3:04 pm

Well I was just gonna post...

I think we'll be seeing a lot more blog fatigue soon. Jeff's just anounced he's taking a well-earned rest and we should respect that. I know most posters on the forum don't cause him much concern but with time on hand, a drink in one, mouse in other and a keyboard within reach a lot of damage can be done. Let's not! (This is as much note-to-self as anticipation of anyone else's behaviour.)

That's not to poo on the Party Season, the Festive Vibe or however you see it. I know Jeff doesn't mind a bit of frivolity now and then, 'cos he's tolerated me long enough, but if things get out out of hand he'll have to step in....


.. in response to Sunny's original post. Sounds so off topic now so I won't bother finishing it.

Anyway,

Happy Whatever!
User avatar
Seamus OBlimey
 
Posts: 3154
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:14 pm
Location: Gods own country
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby nomo » Tue Dec 19, 2006 3:08 pm

Newton's law of physics suggests that all the accumulating mass in those towers should have slowed down?? :shock:

And steel beams don't melt, yet there were pools of molten metal in the debris?? :shock: :shock:

Squinting through a microscope can make it hard to focus on the elephant in the room.


Indeed. Is that the infamous pink elephant?

But your innuendo is duly noted, once again, Mr Manatee.
User avatar
nomo
 
Posts: 3388
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 1:48 pm
Location: New York City
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby sunny » Tue Dec 19, 2006 3:25 pm

I understand blog fatigue, and do not fault Joe or Jeff for taking time off, or quitting altogether. Many commenters, for whatever reason, feel they have a right to spout whatever crap that comes into their heads, regardless of the blog-owners wishes.
Joe has every right to make his site anti-CD. My point is, he has become extremely angry that a lot of people do not agree with him. As for Hopsicker, his rant totally discredited him in my eyes: (emphasis mine)


I recently got to witness first-hand why one researcher suggested the 9/11 [b]"Truth Movement" might more accurately be called the 9/11 UFO Cult,[/b] due to the presence of an absurdly-large contingent of people with truly bizarre belief systems. (sunny: so according to Hoppy's logic, everything else Jeff writes is suspect, because he also writes about UFO's)

One such individual, in an email bristling with hostility, recently demanded I admit that explosives had been placed in the World Trade Center before the attack. Otherwise, I must perforce immediately explain to him how terrorists could possibly have made WTC Building 7 fall.

I'm sure you've met the same fate. And I'm afraid I was rather, um, intemperate in the use of capital letters in my response:
I UNCOVER MORE FACTS -- NOT OPINIONS OR SPECULATION -- ABOUT 9/11 EVERY MONTH THAN THE ENTIRE 9/11 TRUTH MOVEMENT HAS DURING THE ENTIRE COURSE OF ITS KHASHOGGI-FUNDED HISTORY.

You say they knew the attack was coming and they didn't do a thing to stop it. If you believe that, FIND THE FUCKING EVIDENCE AND I'LL BE THE FIRST TO CONGRATULATE YOU. It's NOT altogether inconceivable that you're right, and that they let it happen.

But the MOST that can be said about that bit of speculation is that it remains to be seen. And that is a far cry from you 9/11 truth goons, who uniformly find it difficult to conceive of 19 Arab men hating us enough to blow themselves up. If there weren't hundreds, no THOUSANDS of Arab suicide bombers, there might be a rationale for questioning the motives of the 19 hijackers. But there isn't.

The reason the govt is covering up, based on evidence I uncovered, and not on bullshit speculation, is that during the SAME month that Atta arrived to attend his flight school, the OWNER of the flight school had his Lear jet confiscated by DEA agents with submachine guns, who found 43 pounds of heroin on board. That's not speculation. That's fact. And it is to OBSCURE that fact that Adnan Khashoggi's minions started spreading money around to scumbags and refugees from Benny Hinn revivals, who pretend to be looking for the truth.

I have laid out the evidence in black and white about the flight school owner's heroin bust. Yet who among you sorry-ass creeps has publicized it or attempted to learn more by actually investigating? Don't waste your time looking. The answer is NO-ONE.
Not realizing he had been beaten by the superior force of my, um, rapier wit, my interrogator next tried the snide approach:
"Is this really Daniel Hopsicker, about whom I read with interest in the book "Fleshing Out Skull and Bones" by Kris Millegan, or some snot-nosed 9 year old who has hijacked his computer? It looks like you didn't get invited back to the Conspiracy Con in 2006. I wonder why?"
Snot-nosed? Now I was steamed.

So before replying a second time, I did a quick search and discovered that my interrogator is clearly outside what the mainstream might call "ordinary consensual reality."

For example, according to his website, the most important threat facing the world today is that of "alien locusts" infesting our planet. As if this frightening news weren't enough, he wants also to alert us to this piece of breaking news:

"PASTOR JOHN STOCKER OF FORT COLLINS, COLORADO ENDORSES EARTHQUAKE RESURRECTION."

Earthquake resurrection is a new one on me, and I thought I had heard it all. So I wrote him back, alluding heavily, as you might expect, to his research into alien locusts. In his response he delivered the funniest line I've read in recent memory:
"I agree that 'alien locust attack' may sound funny to someone who hasn't researched the UFO and alien abduction phenomena with a biblical worldview as a foundation."
When I stopped laughing, I realized that he was right. In my cursory ruminations about alien abduction, I have never once taken the biblical worldview. So I might have mentioned this in my final retort:
"Dude, I knew I was gonna lose the alien locust community when I told you what an idiot you are. If you thought you were emailing someone who suffers fools gladly, think again. I'm a serious writer and researcher. You're a millennialist clown."

"You really should join the Shriners; at least then you'd be able to ride around in those little cars and wear a fez. Get psychiatric help. Try to resist the idea that you're needed on the front lines of the fight against the alien locusts. Say a prayer. Smell some flowers. And please, remember to take your meds."
Two days later, someone called "citizen spook" decided I was the CIA's answer to everything ailing our great Republic, which is no doubt just a coincidence.

Here's the seriously scary part: People opposing the Bush Administration's official story about 9/11 usually have anything but a "biblical foundation as a worldview." Right? In fact, that's what most of us find so creepy about Bush. But the 9/11 Truth Movement is stocked with true believers in everything from Jesus to Urantia.

Even the leading light of the movement, David Griffin, is a divinity professor, of all things, whose books have been touted endlessly in email from well-organized 9/11 truth spammers.

And yet they apparently hate Bush so much they think he's responsible for the attack.

Something here does not, um, parse…

Dr. Griffin, we have learned, recently gave an address entitled "9/11 and Demonic Consciousness."
"My thesis is that the attacks of 9/11 were products of demonic consciousness, with 'the demonic' understood as an emergent reality that is diametrically opposed to the creative power of the universe and strong enough to threaten its purposes."
People spouting off about "demonic consciousness" usually get sent to the nearest emergency room.

And then there's Brigham Young University physicist Steven Jones, prominent in Scholars for 9/11 Truth. He believes an incendiary substance, Thermite, was bolstered by sulfur to generate the exceptionally hot fires at the World Trade Center, causing the structural steel to fail and the buildings to collapse.

Sulfur has traditionally been associated with the demonic. To his credit, Prof. Jones refrains from reminding us of this fact.

Jones is, however, a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and has published a scientific paper called "Behold My Hands: Evidence for Christ's Visit in Ancient America." This paper details the archeological clues he has found supporting the belief that Jesus Christ visited Latin America after his resurrection, as chronicled in the Book of Mormon.

Anyone who can find Jesus in South America 2000 years ago is capable, clearly, of finding pretty much anything he wants to, anytime at all.

The bottom line is that this debate would be pretty funny if there weren't 3000 people dead.

Instead, the situation is Orwellian. Disinfo writ large. And it didn't happen by accident.

The Army's got a 1200-man psyops unit. I'll bet they aren't all tasked overseas.

-- Daniel Hopsicker


So everybody who disagrees with him is either a religious nut, or UFO nut, or funded by Khashoggi. Again, he is saying "that coke snorting whore hopping drug running (according to his own investigations) Arabs, were, nevertheless, religious zealots who hated us for our freedom, and in fact the official version was correct, except the gov't covered up a huge drug bust and that's what they are hiding." Do you see what I mean?
Choose love
sunny
 
Posts: 5220
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 10:18 pm
Location: Alabama
Blog: View Blog (1)

Innuendo and out the other.

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Tue Dec 19, 2006 3:42 pm

nomo wrote:Newton's law of physics suggests that all the accumulating mass in those towers should have slowed down?? :shock:


Newton's laws of physics prove that the roofs of the Twin Towers can't fall as fast through the buildings below as they would through thin air. Yet they did fall damn near as fast as through thin air. Hence the powerfully over-designed building structures below must've been blown away. And all the physical evidence points to this very thing. Steel beams hurled horizontally hundreds of feet and all the contents of the buildings damn near atomized.

And steel beams don't melt, yet there were pools of molten metal in the debris?? :shock: :shock:


The ingredients of thermate were found in both the dust and the molten slag by not only Dr. Steven Jones but the EPA's dust analysis around NYCity which Jones cited in his own metallurgical analysis. Thermate cuts through steel like a hot knife through butter AND contains the oxygen it needs for the process so the molten pools under WTC 1, 2, and 7 which should've been oxygen-starved could instead burn for weeks. And they did.

But your innuendo is duly noted, once again, Mr Manatee.


I only just realized myself how important the Conservation of Momentum and the building's fall times are. I knew so much about so many facets of 9/11 that I missed this simple obvious tallest-standing tree in the forest of evidence.

I'm sure many others are blinded the same way and that's why I point at that tree as often as possible to let people know this truth is IRREFUTABLE, SIMPLE, and even intuitive so they should focus on it more.
CIA runs mainstream media since WWII:
news rooms, movies/TV, publishing
...
Disney is CIA for kidz!
User avatar
Hugh Manatee Wins
 
Posts: 9869
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:51 pm
Location: in context
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby nomo » Tue Dec 19, 2006 3:42 pm

So everybody who disagrees with him is either a religious nut, or UFO nut, or funded by Khashoggi. ~snip~ Do you see what I mean?


Oh PLEASE!

YOU people are calling us all kinds of names and worse, and when someone like Hopsicker responds in kind, and hilariously funny at that, you get your knickers all in a twist?

You don't believe you can be a cokehead and a religious fanatic? What about GW Bush? You don't believe thousands of Arabs hate us for a myriad of reasons? You don't believe the government would rather not look into those flight schools for fear we discover it has been importing dope by the planeload?

ALL that stuff seems remarkably common in the real world, and yet you think some Jesus freak from Utah is the ONLY scientist standing up against THEM, and the rest of us are on the CIA payroll.

What. Ever. Man. Hopsicker said it all.
User avatar
nomo
 
Posts: 3388
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 1:48 pm
Location: New York City
Blog: View Blog (0)

Not either/or, BOTH.

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Tue Dec 19, 2006 3:48 pm

nomo wrote:You don't believe you can be a cokehead and a religious fanatic? What about GW Bush? You don't believe thousands of Arabs hate us for a myriad of reasons? You don't believe the government would rather not look into those flight schools for fear we discover it has been importing dope by the planeload?


Run with that, nomo.
You don't believe the government can be running dope AND doing false-flag terrorism to kick-start a New American Century of oil wars? Of course they can. They've been doing it for decades.


ALL that stuff seems remarkably common in the real world, and yet you think some Jesus freak from Utah is the ONLY scientist standing up against THEM, and the rest of us are on the CIA payroll.


Many scientists and engineering types have reached the same conclusion as Dr. Steven Jones. And many are Christians.
Ya gonna call them all kooks?

What. Ever. Man. Hopsicker said it all.


Hospsicker says alot, not "all."
CIA runs mainstream media since WWII:
news rooms, movies/TV, publishing
...
Disney is CIA for kidz!
User avatar
Hugh Manatee Wins
 
Posts: 9869
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:51 pm
Location: in context
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Innuendo and out the other.

Postby nomo » Tue Dec 19, 2006 3:48 pm

I only just realized myself how important the Conservation of Momentum and the building's fall times are.


Or did you just realize how important YOU think you are? Do you hope that by repeating the same old nonsense people might eventually fall for it?

Conservation of Momentum allows for the accumulation of energy from all those floors combined -- NOT the other way around. Molten pools of metal suggest that maybe there were really hot fires in those towers. But in your topsy turvy world, all those things mean exactly what you have already determined they should mean. So when I see a nice piece of toast, you see an apparition of the Virgin Mary. Now excuse me while I go hijack me some keywords.
:roll:
User avatar
nomo
 
Posts: 3388
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 1:48 pm
Location: New York City
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby sunny » Tue Dec 19, 2006 3:50 pm

nomo wrote:
So everybody who disagrees with him is either a religious nut, or UFO nut, or funded by Khashoggi. ~snip~ Do you see what I mean?


Oh PLEASE!

YOU people are calling us all kinds of names and worse, and when someone like Hopsicker responds in kind, and hilariously funny at that, you get your knickers all in a twist?

You don't believe you can be a cokehead and a religious fanatic? What about GW Bush? You don't believe thousands of Arabs hate us for a myriad of reasons? You don't believe the government would rather not look into those flight schools for fear we discover it has been importing dope by the planeload?

ALL that stuff seems remarkably common in the real world, and yet you think some Jesus freak from Utah is the ONLY scientist standing up against THEM, and the rest of us are on the CIA payroll.

What. Ever. Man. Hopsicker said it all.


I haven't called anybody names, which means you have painted with the same broad brush as Hopsicker. Funny it may have been, but his intent was serious- to utterly discredit and dehumanize people who disagreed with him.
Choose love
sunny
 
Posts: 5220
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 10:18 pm
Location: Alabama
Blog: View Blog (1)

Re: Not either/or, BOTH.

Postby nomo » Tue Dec 19, 2006 3:50 pm

Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:Many scientists and engineering types have reached the same conclusion as Dr. Steven Jones. And many are Christians.
Ya gonna call them all kooks?


You betcha. Science and Christianity (or any other old religion) don't mix. They just don't.

And a serious look at Griffin's and Jones's previous publications should make that abundantly clear to you.
User avatar
nomo
 
Posts: 3388
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 1:48 pm
Location: New York City
Blog: View Blog (0)

Next

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 162 guests