Cannonfire is leaving

[MASONIC PLOT]

Well I know it was an inside job, dont get me wrong here, but I think the truth movement is focusing on many of the wrong issues and they are doing so for a reason, in my opinion.

Perhaps Mr Cannon is also part of this reason. Who knows. Its easy to level charges of disinfo agent against someone, requires a lot less thought. I dont know what Mr Cannon's agenda is any more than I know what Jeff Wells' agenda is. I know what my agenda is. I want the real perps brought to justice and I work tirelessly to find a way to do that.

[MASONIC PLOT]

Cannon also totally shreds and rips apart Russo's latest film "Freedom to Fascism." After watching the film myself it appears Cannon is right on the money on that one. Its just a typical right wing conspiracy nut film, something only a true disinfo agent holed up in his compound with CIA supplied guns and a following consisting of a bunch of skinhead nazis, could appreciate. This sort of crap really diverts away from the REAL CONSPIRACIES that are taking place. The real crimes that are being committed. Its sad and distasteful that people buy this garbage. Granted there are a FEW good points about the film, it is largely junk and not worth your time. I would not want to be associated with it in any way that is for sure.

[noen]

All I know is one thing - - those of us who dare to disagree are shouted down, ridiculed and verbally abused. Nor is there the slightest possibility of rational discourse from the other side. I've come to the conclusion that the pro-CDers are more like a cult than anything. Their belief system is absolutely ridged and inflexible.

I wish it had been other wise and that a respectful argument could happen. I've been proven wrong on that many times. It's why I hardly ever post here and more, and I suspect it's why a number of people don't either. I think that Jeff had best think long and hard about that.

I had thought that a place like RI was a place for balance. A place where one could explore the edge of what is known without getting utterly lost. Frankly, I don't see that so much any more. What I see instead is RI becoming more like a closed psych ward and that's not a fun place to be.

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

All I know is one thing - - those of us who dare to disagree are shouted down, ridiculed and verbally abused.

Have you considered that the controlled demolition in no longer "a matter of opinion"?

Nor is there the slightest possibility of rational discourse from the other side. I've come to the conclusion that the pro-CDers are more like a cult than anything. Their belief system is absolutely ridged and inflexible.

Rationally proven crimes are not something you quibble about or give ground on.
The laws of physics are THE LAW. Period. You have to accept that. Sorry.

I wish it had been other wise and that a respectful argument could happen. I've been proven wrong on that many times. It's why I hardly ever post here and more, and I suspect it's why a number of people don't either. I think that Jeff had best think long and hard about that.

Jeff himself refuses to acknowledge the laws of physics. Odd, ay?
We're on our own with this topic.

I had thought that a place like RI was a place for balance. A place where one could explore the edge of what is known without getting utterly lost. Frankly, I don't see that so much any more. What I see instead is RI becoming more like a closed psych ward and that's not a fun place to be.

We are in the middle of a lying torturing poisoning stealing war.
THAT'S "not a fun place to be."

Perhaps some RI readers come for the UFOs but don't want to stay for the solved crimes of fascism. So be it.

[NavnDansk]

I have read that a possible reason why the ptbs did not hit the WTC later was that if tens of thousands of Americans had been killed instead of "only" 3000, it would have guaranteed a real investigation instead of the whitewash 911 Commission.

I am interested in finding out more information about the immense amount of gold that was stored in the basement of one of the WTC buildings and what happened to it. A truck with some of the gold bars was found abandoned under a bridge on 911 amounting to several millions but I believe several billions of dollars of gold was stored and reported missing.

I mentioned this on one of Sibyl Edmonds sites and got a reply that the gold had been recovered from a fellow poster, not Ms. Edmunds who stated in one of the interviews reprinted on her first site http://www.JustACitizen.com that one of the main motivations for 911 had to do with the price fixing of gold and she has stated that 911 was about making alot of money for some people in the US government and that these people were going to jail when the truth came out.

She also mentions suitcases of money and Rep. Dennis Hastert. I went to a link which stated that gold had started disappearing from US banks just before 911 and this was a financial, not a conspiracy site, and was dated shortly before 911. Don't remember which site had the link and did not bookmark the financial site.

Would appreciate any information on the above.

Thank you.

[Jeff]

Have you considered that the controlled demolition in no longer "a matter of opinion"?

Hugh, you're being a Demolition Bully. Please don't.

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

Have you considered that the controlled demolition is no longer "a matter of opinion"?

Hugh, you're being a Demolition Bully. Please don't.

This is an answer? A catch phrase? Aw, c'mon out and play. lol.
You're life must be mighty distracting.
I know kids are a handful but c'mon, Jeff.

Hey, I try to not be a "Demolition Bully." ( catch phrase I predict will have legs)
But why are you a "Demolition Denier?" ( those legs better keep marching )

I'll try not to be a "bully" but I will insist people obey atleast the laws of physics since apparently we've lost all other laws. Even 'Anxious Gravity.'

Why deny the Conservation of Momentum proves the collapse times could only happen with bombs?

This is a False Controversy....like, "is tobacco really harmful?" It will be strung out as long as possible to prevent changes in the status quo because it is the single biggest eye-opener Americans have ever faced besides global warming, another false controversy.

Perhaps you, like many, have been overwhelmed with too much information on the subject? I know I was for a long time. Too much information overloads us. That's why I'm trying to provide some focus with applied knowledge that takes into account our real problems.

Watch the Tempest, not the Teapot.
Teach History, not Mystery.
(....yikes, I'm starting to sound like Jesse Jackson....lol.)

[noen]

We are in the middle of a lying torturing poisoning stealing war.
THAT'S "not a fun place to be."

Perhaps some RI readers come for the UFOs but don't want to stay for the solved crimes of fascism. So be it.

And I am supposedly on your side. Don't you see that? I happen to believe there were very suspicious goings on around 9-11. But that doesn't seem to be enough. So let's bring this back to the subject of Cannonfire's disgust at the inflexible proponents for CD. There are, I believe two things going on. One is that the extremists on the left are every bit as vicious and full of hate as the extremists on the right. Cannonfire has had it, I've had it and many others too. Two, I think that those with such an irrational belief in CD have played right into the hands of the state. The government knows they screwed up and thousands died. Tenant went to Ashcroft and Rice and laid it out for them. They ignored him. So to cover up their gross incompetence they muddy the water. They work behind the scenes to foster such absolute drivel as mini nukes, or no plane at the pentagon and so forth. How does it work again? Infiltrate, Disrupt, Ridicule. That's how it's done and it seems to be working like a charm.

But when it comes to this criminal administration I am there. This is the most corrupt president in a very, very long time. The entire Bush admin is run like a mafia crime family. Complete with the trail of dead bodies of those who dared to oppose them.

So what does it get us? A divided, ineffective community and that's just how they like it.

[Jeff]

Hugh, I'm beginning to think you may have keyword hijacked "truth," because your use of it is giving me the hives I associate these days with "freedom" and "democracy."

CD is still a matter of opinion and interpretation, not of fact, and those who claim otherwise are making religious assumptions.

Hold your position and make your argument, but don't continue imputing bad faith to those with whom you're in disagreement.

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

Hugh, I'm beginning to think you may have keyword hijacked "truth," because your use of it is giving me the hives I associate these days with "freedom" and "democracy."

Yeah, I feel the same way about the word "truth" so I only use it with proven things... like basic laws of physics.

I just heard an (allegedly) freelance ad copy writer on NPR's 'This American Life' talk about being given the assignment by the State Department of selling "freedom and democracy" to people in the middle east. He said the research gave them no clue how to do this and his colleagues fell back on treating it like using "cool and refreshing" to sell soda.

So it is with "truth."

But I also think NPR is a conduit for friendlying-up propaganda to their listeners with benign first-person narratives keeping 'evil' mundane.

CD is still a matter of opinion and interpretation, not of fact, and those who claim otherwise are making religious assumptions.

Is Newtonian physics a religious assumption? No. No, it's not.
This is an area of human knowledge where we CAN use the oft-abused word, "truth."

The victims of war's ballistic technologies know the Truth of physics.
"Reality is that which can kill you even when you don't believe in it."

Some truths:
>The truth of death by explosive overpressure trauma.
>The truth of white phosphorus burns.
>The truth of bleeding to death from the trajectory of shrapnel.
>The truth of decaying flesh.
>The truth of waterboarding.

All resulting from the truth of physics, not belief.

And it is important to know that there are truths we can know. Like PHYSICS.

Hold your position and make your argument, but don't continue imputing bad faith to those with whom you're in disagreement.

Fair enough.
"This is an anti-fascist site."
Please, don't let it be an anti-science site for that would be a contradiction of your own values.

[Jeff]

And it is important to know that there are things we can know. Like PHYSICS.

Then why isn't something so evidently self-evident, evident to more physicists than one who also claims evidence for Jesus' visit to ancient America?

And why, if physics is all that, do you seem so reluctant to follow it into the 20th century, let alone the 21st, and acknowledge the weirdness, the ambiguity and the implications of quantum physics?

Your absolutism is wearying, divisive and unprofitable.

[Forgetting2]

These discussions sometimes remind me of arguments as to how many angels might fit on the head of a pin. From where I sit I might end up with a sharp poke and no more wisdom than a one eyed peasant.

Yet I would like to see the NIST models, which reportedly failed to produce total collapse. That, or a model which succeeded in replicating the results, with or without explosives. Unfortunately, with only High School physics to guide me, I’d need to check these results out with the patient tutoring of someone schooled in useful, non elysiun, fields.

I think the towers might have had some help falling in the way they did beyond that of jet fuel, some shorn support and gravity because, well, there MUST be some reason. Well, there are a LOT of reasons…except that they MAY have other explanations. OK, they DO have other explainations. It's just that they don't all NECESSARILY make sense. And with so much obvious obfuscation and muck in the official stories there is little to hang ones hat on.

Would it take a larger number of conspiracists to muddy up an FAA report then would be needed to muddy up a NIST report? Would they fit on the head of the same pin?

In any case, I just watched 9/11: Press for Truth again and was reminded of Randy Glass’s assertion that R.G. Abbas indicated prior knowledge of a total collapse of both of the main towers. “Those towers are coming down.” It would be interesting to see if there is anyone who could verify that Glass had made this statement before the actual attack. Don’t suppose Bob Graham would testify to it.

I’m not aware of any other claims of prior knowledge of total collapse. Neither "The Coup" nor "The Lone Gunman" had that much foresight.

Of course this line of inquiry might only leave me with a fewer number of useable angels.

As for Cannonfire, it would be unfortunate to lose his insights and, although I think I can understand his frustration, the whole “Goodbye Cruel World” thing is unnecessarily vindictive and boring, in my opinion. An angry and manipulative suicide note.

My next low hanging yet fruitless inquiry will be into how many quantum Jesus’ can fit onto the surface of a snow globe.

(If you'll forgive me, I'm just a bit frustrated by all this.)

[darkbeforedawn]

Jeff-
Why aren't
more physicists defending CD?
Well, I can't speak for all of them, but I do personally know of ONE high level physicists with whom I discussed this issue.
What it comes down to is:he is afraid for his job and afraid for his family.
Why did so many German intellectuals sit passively while Hitler rose to power?
I know that this one person was confronted in a super market by a mutual friend. At which point this one proffessional physicist (ho both teaches and does research)told that friend he just didn't know what good it would do anyone to "come out" even though he did in fact, agree with me.
Basicly they are protecting their standing in their communities and their jobs. Not too hard to understand, is it?
The human animal desperately needs to feel like they belong and that they too, are members of a protecting "other".
I think this need has led to the hell on earth we see before us.

[Wombaticus Rex]

Then why isn't something so evidently self-evident, evident to more physicists than one who also claims evidence for Jesus' visit to ancient America?

And why, if physics is all that, do you seem so reluctant to follow it into the 20th century, let alone the 21st, and acknowledge the weirdness, the ambiguity and the implications of quantum physics?

Your absolutism is wearying, divisive and unprofitable.

Jeff, with all due respect -- and it's a lot, at least coming from me -- it's pretty obvious that the Earth was not created 6000 years ago, but a hell of a lot of people would disagree with me.

[demolished]

To Hugh and the CD proponents,

One thing to consider:
In pointing out that the WTC towers actually came down through "controlled demolition" during 911 to the people who believe the official story of "passenger planes and Arab hijackers", you are doing no less than attempting an uncontrolled demolition job of their psychological world where the good guys wear white hats, etc ...
Such a world view used to be mine as well, but it came crashing down with 911 as I watched the WTC towers free fall , one after the other ... ( I was unfortunate enough to hold two degrees in physics, and needed not wait for any official PhD experts to explain how jet fuel could melt steel, pulverise concrete ... I knew what most likely happened)

My life has been unhinged ever since.

Just think : people would perhaps be more willing to have their illusion shattered, if you can also offer some suggestion to them as to what to do with all the broken pieces afterwards ? How did you yourself manage to carry on with your "normal" life, knowing that 911 was an "inside job", and that you are and have been governed by crooks ?


demolished... but not quite finished !