On the way: HBO JFK miniseries based on Bugliosi

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On the way: HBO JFK miniseries based on Bugliosi

Postby sunny » Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:01 pm

Because of his decision to executive produce a ten-part HBO miniseries based on Vincent Bugliosi's "Reclaiming History: The Assassination of President John F. Kennedy," Tom Hanks is now officially in league with the Oswald-was-the-lone-gunman gang and standing foursquare against the Kennedy assassination conspiracy theorists, which, in this context, places him in opposition to the beliefs of 75% of the American public.

Besides looking to debunk every last conspiratorial aspect of Oliver Stone's JFK (which you'd have to be a denial practitioner of the first order to discount altogether), Hanks has also come out in support of the magic bullet theory.

I haven't read Bugliosi's book, but I've read Gerald Posner's "Case Closed", and it didn't dislodge my basic feelings and persuasions about the Kennedy assassination. Hanks and producing partners Gary Goetzman and Bill Paxton can attempt to roll back a belief-and-suspicion system that I've held close to my chest all my life, but I will never, ever believe in the magic bullet...never.

They could get in touch with Lee Harvey Oswald's ghost through a seance and digitally record a statement that he wasn't in cahoots with anyone and I still wouldn't buy it. I'm a grassy-knoll crossfire guy all the way. I've stood behind the old wooden fence atop the grass knoll where the second gunman is believed to have fired from. Hanks, Geotzman and Paxton are contending that all those people who ran up the knoll after the shots were fired and reportedly saw or smelled remnants of gunsmoke in the air were...what, on drugs?

People believe in the lone-gunman theory because they want to; same for the conspiracy theorists. You can go with Posner and Bugliosi and line up all your Oswald-did-it-alone arguments, and you'll sound like you know your stuff cold, and you can talk the standard conspiracy line and sound just as sharp and knowledgable and never the twain shall meet.

It does seem that men of an apparently conservative bent ("Enough of this wackjob conspiracy stuff...we're taking over the argument!") are in league with Posner and Bugliosi. And we all know that Hanks is at least a bit of a staunch traditionalist with his misty-eyed involvement in the legends of World War II and space travel and whatnot.

(all emphasis mine)

http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/archives ... oliver.php

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I am just about to watch "JFK"

Postby slow_dazzle » Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:23 pm

(The Director's Cut) uncannily enough sunny.

Even spookier - just spent the evening with friends of the author of a book on the assassination.

The Secret Service agents were ordered to get off the back of the limo as it turned into Dealey Plaza. One of them throws up his hands in total confusion more than once. I have a link to the video clip if you want it.

No protection at the rear of the limo was vital to the LHO story. Who had the power to make sure the agents left the back of the limo? Not the Cubans, not the Mob and not the Soviets. This little event is one of the smoking guns.

1963 was when the takeover began in earnest.
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Re: I am just about to watch "JFK"

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:33 pm

slow_dazzle wrote:The Secret Service agents were ordered to get off the back of the limo as it turned into Dealey Plaza. One of them throws up his hands in total confusion more than once. I have a link to the video clip if you want it.

No protection at the rear of the limo was vital to the LHO story. .


The SS stand down takes place at Love Air Field where JFK landed and got into the limo.
As it leaves Love Field one of the SS agents is kept from taking his usual spot on the back runningboards of the limo and it speeds off without him.

His hand signals are the universal sign for "WTF?"

What follows might be called...'The Nightmare on Elm Street.'
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Vince Palamara on Secret Service - don't know Vince...

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:38 pm

http://spot.acorn.net/jfkplace/03/VP/03-VP.html

Secret Service and Infrastructure - by Vincent Palamara

BREAKDOWN OF SECRET SERVICE HIERARCHY and INFRASTRUCTURE Compiled by Vince Palamara Author of "The Third Alternative -- Survivor's Guilt: The Secret Service and the JFK Murder"
As of June - 2003, write Vince Palamara at vincebethel@yahoo.com


Appendix

Part One: Breakdown of Secret Service Hierarchy - Infrastructure


The Top Treasury Officials:
1) C. DOUGLAS DILLON
Sec of the Treasury:on a Cabinet plane bound for Japan via Hawaii with *
2) ASST. SEC. ROBERT A. WALLACE
with Rowley at a luncheon in D.C.; denied dead agent reports;
3) ACTING SEC. G. d'ANDELOT BELIN
stepped in in Dillon's absence 1963-1964 (related to David?);
4) [UNDERSEC. HENRY "JOE" H. FOWLER
replaced Dillon in Jan. 1965]


The Press Secretaries:
1) *PRESS SECRETARY PIERRE SALINGER
code book missing from plane; only missed "two or three" trips
(almost definitely only one: Texas); extremely knowledgable about
motorcade planning/ security- worked with Secret Service on all
prior advance work... except for the Texas trip.
2) ASST. PRESS SEC. (#2) ANDREW HATCHER
in D.C. inactive.
3) ASST. PRESS SEC. (#3) MALCOLM KILDUFF
first trip on his own: official debut;essentially a non-player out
of the loop.

The Chief's Office:
1) CHIEF JAMES J. ROWLEY
with Wallace^
2) DEPUTY CHIEF PAUL J. PATERNI
member of OSS during WWII- worked with James Angleton and
Ray Rocca (liaison to WC); involved in limousine inspection with
Boring, beating Rowley and Kellerman---and the FBI--- to the
punch (skull particles, bullet fragments, vehicle damage/ wind-
shield); involved in LHO income tax check investigation right after
assassination; checked on CIA connections of suspects Mosley and
Homer Echevarria for the Chicago field office- matter was sum-
marily dropped by a call from headquarters telling the field office
agents who spoke to Paterni to send all memos, files, and notebooks
to D.C. and not to discuss the case with anyone!; Thomas Kelley-
liaison to WC: assigned by Paterni to go to Dallas and speak to LHO
[5H67; 7H354,403;13H65]
3) DEPUTY CHIEF EDWARD WILDY
totally out of the loop.


The Top Three Agents of the White House Detail (The SAIC's Office):
1) SAIC GERALD A. BEHN
in D.C. inactive: first full vacation in three years under JFK.
2) ASAIC (#2) FLOYD M. BORING
in D.C. at home but IN CHARGE OF PLANNING THE TEXAS TRIP
[Bishop, 1988 edition, p. 558; Truman Library Oral History,
p.63- on all the advance work...assigned to all the advance work;
interviews with Sam Kinney and Floyd Boring 1993-1994];
involved in limo inspection with Paterni, Trade Mart decision,
PRS checks, giving Lawson the Dallas assignment, etc..
3) ASAIC (#3) ROY H. KELLERMAN
First major trip on his own in a supervisory capacity without
either Behn OR Boring.


The WHD Advance Agents:
1) WINSTON G. LAWSON (LEAD CAR)
WHD advance agent (and former CIC agent---still with the Former
Intelligence Officers Association!): only did advance work for a
short time before Dallas.
2) DAVID B. GRANT (TRADE MART)
Lawson's oft-forgotten partner from 11/13-11/22/63; physically
joined Lawson in Dallas 11/18/63 from Florida trip (manned by ASAIC
Boring in place of Behn); Boring's right hand man for Chicago,
Florida, and Texas advances.

The Democratic National Committee Advance Men:
1) JERRY BRUNO- CHIEF DNC ADVANCE MAN:
early organizer but not in Dallas---adamnatly against Trade Mart/
choice of route (out of the loop).
2) MARTY UNDERWOOD- DNC ADVANCE MAN:
for Houston and Austin---adamantly against choice of route. Heard
rumors of impending assassination---received confirmation of plot
from CIA Officer Win Scott shortly after assassination (out of the
loop)!
3) JACK PUTERBAUGH- DNC ADVANCE MAN for Dallas:
IN PILOT CAR WITH LT. COL GEORGE WHITMEYER- taught Army Intel-
ligence, not originally scheduled to be in motorcade.As for Puterbaugh
himself, he denied any involvemen tin the Tade mart decision he was
subsequently "blamed" for. He is often blamed for the motorcade route
change, as well...


The Shift Leaders of the WHD (SAIC Assistants):
1) ATSAIC EMORY P. ROBERTS in command of FOLLOW-UP CAR in Dallas:
order[..] agent Henry J. Rybka back from rear of limo at Love
Field,
orders agents not to move after first shot on Elm Street,
recalls agent John Ready during/ shortly after one of the head
shots. Usurps Kellerman's authority at Parkland Hospital [dies
of unknown causes in the late '60's].
2) ATSAIC STEWART G. STOUT, JR.- stationed at the Trade Mart
(out of the loop).
3) ATSAIC ARTHUR L. GODFREY- stationed in Austin
(also out of the loop).

The V.P./ LBJ Detail:
1) SAIC OF LBJ DETAIL H. STUART KNIGHT- in D.C. inactive:
transfer to become effective 11/25/63 (out of the loop).
2) ASAIC (#2) RUFUS W. YOUNGBLOOD- LBJ's car:
listens to walkie-talkie with LBJ.


Miscellaneous:
1) PRS AGENT GLENN A. BENNETT- temporarily assigned to WHD:
why did he ride in the follow-up car (he was an administrator)?
2) WILLIAM R. GREER- LIMO:
slows limo, looks back at JFK twice, disobeys Kellerman, etc.
3) JOHN D. READY- neutralized by Roberts.
4) CLINTON J. HILL (ASSIGNED TO JACKIE)-
disobeys Boring and Roberts by riding on rear of limo four times
before Elm St. AND by lunging for rear of limo ON Elm Street.


Part Two: Foreign and Domestic Trips Involving Motorcades 1961 - 1963:
Normal Security in Comparison to Dallas

1) agents on or near limo in Dealey Plaza and near Elm Street before
or during shooting (up to/ inc. 11/18/63; Boring tells agents not
to mount rear of limo between 11/19 and 11/21, according to Clint
Hill)- blamed on JFK!
2) motorcycles- from 18 flanking units down to a measely 4 non-flanking
units (11/18-11/22 Fort Worth; according to DPD, this occure at the
last minute: morning of 11/22+ meeting of 11/21 via SS/ Grant)-
blamed on JFK!
3) The Secret Service was knowledgable about prior or existing threats of 1
1/2 [Chicago], 11/9 [Milteer/ Miami], and 11/18 [Tampa/ Miami]:
Boring, Grant, Bolden, Martineau, Kinney, etc. Remember PRS
agent Bennett's mysterious placement in follow-up car on 11/22/63;
4) Protective Research Section (PRS): ZERO threats found for Dallas trip,
despite three known checks, Stevenson incident, Wanted for Treason
photos, and warnings to JFK: Senator William Fulbright, DNC advanceman
Marty Underwood, San Antonio Congressman Henry Gonzalez, etc.
5) Deleted squad car (meeting of 11/21 between DPD and Secret Service/ Grant)
6) Motorcade route: two dangerous turns (90 and 120 degrees) involving slow
speeds in a warehouse district (TSBD)- changed between 11/18 and
11/19 in spite of at least two better/ alternate routes; driver- no
independent knowledge: had to follow the lead car.
7) Publication of route- by (and denied by) the Secret Service---accomplished
with the help of Betty Forsling Harris, Bill Moyers, and "the agent in
charge of the Dallas trip"!
8) Vehicles were out of original, numerical order- changed 11/22 at Love Field.
9) Media (press busses), photographers (always in front- cancelled at the last
minute at Love Field), Cecil Stoughton ( rode near rear of limo/ in
follow-up car July to November 21, 1963), Godfrey McHugh, and
Ted Clifton- moved away from JFK/ limousine, against prior protocol
for motorcades. DMN photographer Tom Dillard. While confirming this
last minute cancellation, said this brought the press/ photographers
"totally out of the picture"!
10) Omissions: Behn, Salinger (Hatcher), Knight, Bruno [Rowley, Dillon]
11) Trade Mart (VS. WOMEN'S BUILDING)- determined speed of cars, motorcade
route choices, and security of building---Secret Service had a hand
in this whole affair.
12) Sheriff Bill Decker (lead car)- order 11/22 not to participate...via a call
from D.C.?
13) Overpass was crowded with people 11/22 in Dealey Plaza, against protocol.
14) Windows not watched 11/22, despite Lawson's "usual instructions" to do so;
15) ATSAIC Roberts: recall of SA Rybka at Love Field; recall of SA Ready in the
Plaza (SA Hill delay); order not to move; usurps Kellerman power at
Parkland/ switch of allegiance.
16) Ambulances on standby- gone including "epileptic seizure" incident 12:25
---five minutes before murder of JFK. Rike said his ambulance was
called to the Dealey Plaza area on several false alarms several
days and weeks before 11/22/63!
17) No bubbletop-a protective device (shield JFK via sun glare,possible de-
flection, psychological deterrent)---often on car in partial form, as
well (just the rear piece, for example). Strange, multiple responsibility [Harris,
Lawson, Kellerman, Sorrels, O'Donnell, etc.]; ultimately, blamed on JFK
(although it was Kinney's sole/ regretted decision)!
18) JFK and LBJ: in same city in slow, open vehicles in close proximity to each
other --- unique and quite a "no-no";
19) Umbrella man- presence/ actions not noted about, written or oral (cause for
delay, confusion? Signal?). SS manual states that this is one of many
things to watch for!
20) Special ordinance of 11/18 with DPD: permitted action against unruly per-
sons becoming involved with peaceful picketing---was this a loophole
designed to give plotters/ SS/ DPD some flexiblity to do certain things,
and not to do other things, regarding security?
21) Greer: slows limo, 2 looks back, disobeys Kellerman; leads race to Parkland
(despite contradictory radio transmissions of SS).
22) Marina in captivity of SS.
23) Autopsy related: body, x-rays, photos, skull fragments, bullet fragments
---SS firmly in control of these crucial items of evidence.
24) CE399: bullet in SS possession.
25) Limo: in SS possession---soon after was rebuilt, destroying and moving
crime scene and evidence.
26) "dead" agent---many media outlets reported this as fact, at different times
and in different ways (inc. location).
27) "SS" agents---phoney or REAL agents in the plaza.
28) drinking incident 11/21-11/22: inc. four agents who rode in the follow-up
car: Hill, Ready, Bennett, and Landis!

Part Three: Evidence of Conspiracy--
Who In the Agency Knows of the Plot
And Who Was Involved in It


MAURICE G. MARTINEAU
ABRAHAM W. BOLDEN, SR.
SAMUEL A. KINNEY
ROY H. KELLERMAN
WILLIAM R. GREER
JOHN NORRIS
FORREST V. SORRELS---shot or shots came from front)
PAUL E. LANDIS---shot or shots came from front)
CLINTON J. HILL---right rear of JFK's skull missing, lying in rear of limo)
THOMAS "LEM" JOHNS---shot or shots came from grassy knoll)
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I might have got my location wrong Hugh

Postby slow_dazzle » Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:44 pm

it's been a while since I viewed the clip although I'm fairly sure the agents left the back of the limo just before Kennedy was shot. That's not to say they weren't ordered off before that too.

Thanks for posting the additional information which I shall read through.
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Re: On the way: HBO JFK miniseries based on Bugliosi

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:56 pm

sunny wrote:]Tom Hanks is now officially in league with the Oswald-was-the-lone-gunman gang


Tom Hanks is 100% without a doubt a Hollywood spook tool and thus closely resembles Mr. Hanky. The disinfo in all Hanks' movies for some years has stunk mightily.
Image

Tom Hanks has long been in league with the CIA and Pentagon.
Last year he was inducted into the Army Ranger Hall of Fame.

Speilberg and Lucas are also doing CIA-State Department movies.

I wondered about Emilio Estevez when he made the movie 'Bobby' about RFK.
But then I saw in the last two minutes of the film just a three second-long shot of The Polka Dot Dress go by behind Anthony Hopkins and I knew that Estevez was winking at us to say he knew the real story.
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DA Jim Garrison, meet Ms. Garrison.

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:10 pm

Ech. So sorry I brought back that image from South Park's site.

But I found that there's a negative character named Ms. Garrison on the show, y'know, like DA Jim Garrison who got beat up by the Operation Mockingbird press when he prosecuted one of the perps, Clay Shaw, from 1967-1969.

NBC put an action adventure show on from 1967-1969 called, 'Garrison's Gorillas.'

It might just be coincidence that South Park has a lesbian bad teacher named 'Garrison.'
But SP has been very news topical and I once put up a thread showing that the two creators were in league with the Cato Institute and Big Tobacco at a European conference on terrorism. Look at their smear of anti-war celebrities in 'Team America.'

http://www.southparkstudios.com/show/display_episode.php?season=11&id1=1106&id2=163

Image
"Ms. Garrison gets dumped again and she takes it out on the fourth grade class."

episodes for download-

Garrison Working Out (Press Image)

The Stand Off
This... is... LESBOS!
Angry Persians
Battle Cry
Fight!
Girl Bar
Day Laborers
Job Offer
Mexican Persian
I hate men
Holding off the Persians
Kicked Persian
Pissed Morning
Garrisons girly laugh
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Postby sunny » Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:35 am

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Postby judasdisney » Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:42 am

I think everyone here knows it was/is a conspiracy and cover-up (on-going). None of us need any convincing.

It's sad that HBO -- often the most progressive network around -- has gone for this.

What's really needed is a psychoanalysis of the stonewallers. I won't even call them "debunkers." They're stonewallers. And Bugliosi is no Right-Winger. It's a syndrome that transcends ideology, and some of the worst stonewallers are on the Left (HBO, Hanks are evidence of this).

Not all of the stonewallers are part of a psyop, either. Each of us probably knows a stonewaller in our family or personal life. It's a syndrome which exists in addition to the black ops/psyops.

There is a single-minded obsessive energy to the crusades of these anti-9/11 truth, anti-conspiracy, pro-coincidence stonewallers which belies a deeper psychological issue. They're aided and abetted by a more perfidious media. But the amateur/unaffiliated stonewallers have an agenda which suggests a sociopathology, a private way of relating to the world at large that is essentially fundamentalist.

I would suggest that if you/we want to maintain a defense garrison (pun contemplated) against these stonewallers (who are more than defensive themselves -- they're obsessed to the degree of attacking, using projection and ready to diagnose psychosis or worse to those of us who don't adhere to Coincidence Theory) -- then we need to look into their social psychology:

What are the stonewallers afraid of?
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Postby judasdisney » Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:06 am

Richard Belzer responds to Bugliosi:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-b ... 60188.html
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Postby 8bitagent » Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:08 am

This is where JFK was killed
Image

E Howard Hunt confessed

The house select committee in the mid 70's ruled it was a conspiracy

Like Princess Di(who also died in front of an occult symbol), an alternate route was insisted for JFK

Oswald had CIA spook written all over him

People close to LBJ have come forward

Standdown of the secret service

Intentional obfuscation and corruption of the crime scene evidence

I mean it goes on and on and on and on

EVEN MOST "debunkers" and Bushbots will admit it was most likely a conspiracy.

This HBO miniseries can only appeal to that tiny minority that think it was merely Oswald. Shoot, the amount of people who think Oswald acted alone is comparible to the amount of people who think fake planes hit the towers or that Iraq has WMD's.

I thought Tom Hanks was cool.

Then again, I thought Oliver Stone was cool, until he came out bashing 9/11 "conspiracy theorists".

Ultimately, it's one of those things where you have to stretch cognitive dissonance to believe the official story.

Also, what the hell was Bush Sr doing there at Dealy Plaza on 11/22?
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Postby zuestorz » Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:23 am

Oh brother :roll: I can't wait for this show :lol:

BTW a nod in the direction of Mr Manatee Wins for his citation of the excellent research of Vince Palamara.

In regard to Bugliosi, I can't work out whether he is to be pitied for his evident senility or denounced for his sheer stupidity. To try and con people with the absurd idea that Jack Ruby was not connected to organized crime and was nothing more than a 'police buff', is, I'm afraid, beneathe contempt. :roll:

Does he believe that people live in a vacuum, and are incapable of doing the most basic research before drawing reasonable conclusions? Conclusions that are far more reasonable in the matter of Ruby than his own half-baked trash?
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Postby sunny » Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:42 am

zuestorz, I used to think he was pretty cool. After the 2000 election theft, he wrote a very fine book The Betrayal of America: How the Supreme Court Undermined the Constitution which was a blistering legal analysis explaining essentially why the Supremes should all be charged with Treason! The book was based on the following article:

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20010205/bugliosi

Here is Lisa Peases' take on his JFK book:

http://realhistoryarchives.blogspot.com ... liosi.html
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Postby zuestorz » Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:32 am

sunny wrote:. . . the Supremes should all be charged with Treason! . . .


:shock: What! Stop. In the name of love before I break my heart, think it over. . .

Sunny, thanks for the links - I haven't read that one but I want to get a hold of it now.

Ah, the wonderous Lisa. How I want her to marry me and have my children. :oops: sigh.

I read her great blog piece on reclaiming history from Bugliosi's moribund death grip and partly (only partly) agree with what she says therein viz. responsibility for Dallas. But that's just my view. :)
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Postby sunny » Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:48 am

zuestorz wrote:
I read her great blog piece on reclaiming history from Bugliosi's moribund death grip and partly (only partly) agree with what she says therein viz. responsibility for Dallas. But that's just my view. :)



I have to say, I only partly agree with her as well. I have not read every word of her theories, but she seems only to blame the CIA. While I think they were the operational tools of the murder as well as having their own reasons for killing him, I don't think they were the masterminds of the hit.

BTW, starting this thread, I did a little refreshing of my memory in order to provide links in the HE comments section. I inevitably came across autopsy photos and what struck me with fresh horror was the certainty (a la Lifton) that Kennedy's body had been tampered with. There is one particular photo which illustrates this clearly:

http://www.jfklancer.com/pub/md/jfk03clr.JPG

Look at that photo and tell me you don't see a very precise, V-shaped cut to his forehead, right where several people, including the press spokesman, claimed there was an entry wound. If you look very closely you will discern a bullet entry hole just inside the cut. Although the V-shaped cut was seemingly made in order to simulate an exit hole,(and probably to remove the bullet as well) the skull within is intact.

This leads inevitably to the conclusion that evil forces deliberately and with malice butchered the dead presidents body, not only in a desperate attempt to frame Oswald, but out of a
malicious glee that they had defeated and defiled their hated enemy.

And these are the same people running the country today.
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