by Starman » Wed Aug 17, 2005 5:25 pm
Well, Sheee-it -- I'm doggone impressed how far-afield you can spin your thoughts and let them fly when there's no limit placed on tying them to anything actually said.<br><br>"in my opinion, displaying a sense of magnaminity and generosity is rarely a bad idea. Among other things, you'd be helping to neutralize the arguments that the protestors are acting self-indulgently and nconsiderately...considering that that's the only argument that Bush supporters can deliver to those presently wavering on the issue, I think that offering a measure of compensation for the inconvenience would leave them basically disarmed."<br><br>Ahm-hu -- I can and do reasonably agree, magnaminity and generosity are rarely bad ideas -- I just happen to disagree that it would actually accomplish anything.<br><br>Re: Offering a measure of compensation: That assumes the offer is even publicized and given a coupla column-inches or a 15-second newscam blurb. Even worse, it assumes that hard-core Bush/War supporters would interpret such a gesture as redeeming who, to a LOT of them, are nothing but dirt-sucking anti-American traitors -- Have you seen THIS?<br>Photo of Counter-demonstrator protesting Camp Casey<br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://tinypic.com/afbk8p.jpg">tinypic.com/afbk8p.jpg</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>I doubt the pro-war, pro-Bush counter-demostrator bunch would be moved in the least, but likely spin an offer of compensation as, 'Oh look those Liberal Yankee scum thought they could 'buy' some good publicity by giving Larry a coupla thousand bucks -- Imagine that, as if they could make themselves decent and God-fearing, and everything all-RIGHT so easily by just spreading some of their commie-and-dope-tainted Cambridge dirty-money around!!' <br><br>IMAGINE the 2nd-cutting hay Rush or Hannity or O'Reilly could make with this new ammo: "Sheehan Anti-Bush Group tries to Bribe Texan property-owner Larry Mattladge for causing him stress, mental anguish and damages", "Sheehan Gang offers cash-settlement for damages and threats!" -- but NATURALLY Larry wouldn't touch it. C'mon, you KNOW the rabid, diehard Daddy WarBush/War is GREEEAT! cheerleading crew will spin WHATEVER happens at Camp Casey as damaging to American Values and another sign of Liberal Leftist propaganda. So your first reason why they oughtta pay-off Larry, so they can count a valuable PR coup, is pretty flawed. The fence-sitters and undecideds aren't IMO gonna be persuaded by such an incidental trifle -- they're gonna have to connect with the issues on a deeper level (methinks) -- and at that intensely personal level, is ONLY where they'll be more true to themselves and consistent and perhaps deeply committed to the cause for world peace and alternative solutions to war-mongering and violence and injustices. It's the larger issue that has to resonate -- trying to placate everyone with the most trivial gripes is hardly a viable strategy.<br><br>Now I don't have any personal information that an offer has or hasn't been made -- I was commenting on my impression of inappropriateness, in that Larry used his 15-minutes of fame to disparage the folks at Camp Casey-- even tho from the reports I've read of participants and newspeople and the on-site sherrifs, the folks at Camp Casey have always acted on their best behavior, with the highest regard for all and making every effort to minimize problems and to comply with the regs. and guidelines established by the local Law and various health and safety folks. I can readily imagine that the news-people have created the biggest nuisance and disturbance of everybody, from reports that during the march they walked on the road while Sheehan and her supporters were required to walk in the steeply-banked ditch, and that at the camp they had to be repeatedly told not to park with their wheels on any portion of the roadway or on private property -- they either didn't 'get' what the basic rules and regs were, or thought they were exempt. Eventually, at least NBC made a deal with Larry for parking, so it isn't like he hasn't been compensated at all. And after all, the news-crews are the only ones at the site making money from what's going on -- the sheriffs are on salary.<br><br>Larry was the one who copped a hostile and intolerant attitude, when (as I posted) after he shot-off his shotgun, he refused to speak with Cindy Sheehan. Whatever respect I might have had for him pretty much evaporated at that show of contempt -- Pretty hard to offer recompense when a person doesn't even have the basic courtesy to speak to you.<br><br>Obviously, I'm not on-site nor am I in-charge of finances, or even in a position to make recommendations. I have high confidence, again from what I've read, that the folks there have an excellant grasp of the situation, and know what's appropriate and doable or desireable. My comment was purely abstract -- I was struck by how preposterous it was to 'solve' the problem of Larry's aggrieved discomfiture by the issue of a cash payment, as if in atonement -- when there's simply no comparison of his annoyance to the incredible, scarcely imagineable suffering and pain and grief and loss of the goddamn stupid, unconscionable war that the Camp Casey folks are protesting. And its scarcely the fault of Cindy or her supporters that they were prohibitted from advancing any further along the road, or that Bush refused to meet with her.<br><br>I was just struck by the incongruity of it, that an offer of generosity to Larry would or could be appropriate considering the larger perspective of the war and what the protest was about, and Larry's part in stressing his OWN inconvenience and annoyance as something more important than what was going on -- how could a cash gift possibly ameliorate what is an incredibly self-absorbed, self-righteous insularity? And what the heck would he be compensated for, ie, actual damages -- broken fences, busted mailbox, tire-tracks, litter, etc.? Oh, he's been 'annoyed'? Shucks, how do you put a price on that?<br><br>"If, on the other hand, you're uninterested in defusing polarization, and in fact relish the opportunity to discomfort the nearby rank and file of the opposition, I suppose it's a lousy idea. Don't get the idea that by doing so, you're discomforting George W. Bush, though. '<br><br>The above is what really got me, prompting me to respond so specifically -- that you'd even suggest I "relish" the opportunity to discomfort the rank-and-file. Oh yeah, that's IT alright -- I stay up late at night and scribble notes on how to better discomfort them. Sure. (eye-roll, etc.) Or that by anything I said had ANYTHING to do with discomforting the Prez. Where in heck did THAT come from? That's too far into the ozone for me to have a clue what you are referring to. I simply don't think that a cash-gratuity is going to defuse polarization. Perhaps that's the core of our disagreement.<br><br>"Bear in mind a couple of things:<br><br>1) the people of Crawford, Texas were there before you came, and they'll be there after you leave. It behooves you to be on your best behavior, even to the point of appearing overly conciliatory, rather than baiting them and escalating hostility.<br><br>2) As a tactic, encampments such as the Crawford camp walk the line of being an "eminent domain intrusion" all their own. I'm simply talking about practical impact on humans in the vicinity, not your rights under the First Amendment.<br><br>Under the circumstances, having the attitude toward the neighboring residents that "if they don't like it, fuck'em" isn't what I'd call a commendable stance. Stand your ground, by all means. The neighbor's offer of accomodations seems to be very fortunate. But don't let your sense of ordinary decency and consideration fail you.<br><br>If you think that such consideration and generosity would be a sign of "weakness" and "spinelessness"- even "hypocrisy"- keep in mind who you sound like. Not to mention who's hands you're playing into."<br>***<br>I don't follow your conclusions at all, esp. that the Camp Casey group AREN'T being on their best behavior -- From indications I've seen and read, they HAVE been. The 'If they don't like it, fuck 'em' attitude is not ANYTHING that I've seen or aware of, and not what my comments were about at all. Also unacknowledged is that the service, hotel/motel and restauranteur businesses are doing a booming trade, with rooms booked into the next town -- an influx of thousands of visitors and news-people is having a big, positive economic impact to the folks in Crawford and surrounding environs -- so its not like there isn't plenty of largesse and generosity already circulating through the community. The picture you've painted of the protesters as self-interested, inconsiderate, or of being indecent -- isn't borne out by ANYTHING I've read -- I simply have a whole 'nother conception of what's going on there. We must have completely different information sources.<br><br>And there's not a single notion that would connect my comments to accomodation and generosity as being 'weak' or spineless. The generosity I was thinking of is of personally connecting and caring, putting oneself on the line as it were for someone else's benefit -- which is the absolute vital ESSENCE of what Sheehan and the Camp Casey group are doing. The whole issue of cash as a substitute for personal caring is another manifestation of vulgar materialism intruding on questions of life and death and decency -- it's a whole 'nother value-system, hardly even relevant to the critical issues surrounding the meaning of Camp Casey and what it hopes to do. And I think, Larry set the tone and drew the line inna sand when he shot-off his gun, knowing it would freak some folks out, and then refused to talk to Cindy. Just said, heck with it, I don't wanna -- so THERE. <br><br>If I were to strip the basis of my position down to the core, it would have to be tied to Larry shooting-off his gun, knowing it would have an effect, and then his refusing to meet with and talk to Cindy. So the crux is -- HOW can you offer a settlement to someone who won't even talk with you? (Send an emmisary? Sorry, in this situation which is really petty, which Larry has manipulated to be all about HIM, I think he's squandered the opportunity of his being owed the benefit-of-doubt and a goodwill gesture. That's simply my own take, and of course not binding on anybody.)<br><br>I think Larry was putting on, for all essential purposes, a grandstand show according to what he thought any self-respecting, law-abiding, gun-toting Texan with a ranching heritage, good-ol'-boy would do in a similiar fix -- he'd by-gosh spout-off about personal rights and guests who outstayed their welcome and the damn-fool idiocy of trying to out-crapper the Commander, and how sometimes ya just gotta jack-one-in-the-chamber and pull the trigger, let the chips fall where they will. <br><br>Well, if you don't see what I was motivated by then you'll probably NEVER understand my point, and there's probably nothing I could say to help you see that. We have different worldviews, I guess. It's like, I see something very sick and twisted and perverse, in the posturing and calculations of Larry, who would seem to be saying something like, "I don't want to talk to these people, I don't care to know what they're about. I'm just tired of them and wish they'd just friggin leave. They should be able to figger out what my getting ready for dove-hunting by shooting my gun is about. I wish my hunting-buddies and other texans would show up on my property so we could all fire-in our guns together. That'd show 'em. Cuz after all, I'm not political. I just want some peace and quiet. I don't care about that war -- I'm not involved in that thing. And I SURE don't wanna talk to that lady who started this whole fool show. But yeah, heck, I think I deserve a bonus for the mental anguish I've suffered from this ordeal of traffic and pedestrians and nosy news people and parking along my fence and noise and aggravation and all."<br><br>Wiser, smarter heads than I are in a position to make these calls there at Camp Casey. Perhaps it would be appropriate for the folks there to set-up a collection pail and take donations so they could kick-it to Larry as a Peace Offering. So alright -- If this is such a good idea, why don't you ACT on it -- go ahead, e-mail the suggestion and phone it in, starting the Larry Mattladge fund with your own donation. I'll pledge a buck. Maybe start a PayPal account in Larry's name, eh?<br>Starman<br> <p></p><i></i>