National Press Club invites Dr. David Griffin to speak

by **Seventhsonjr** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 12:56 am

If the above reports on Griffin are true (and this tie to the CFR is creepy) then this MAY well be another case of Rove-style "Innoculation". The facts may be mostly true. But the reporter=writer may be being used to discredit the true facts by spinning them in a way that most common folks will never believe him. Even if he gets to the 30% or more of Americans who think Bush is a liar on 9-11 and Iraq etc., the 50% or so who will not open their eyes and ears will just dismiss this as utter tinfoil hatisms. That is why I brought up this subject in the Syzygy thread. We need to examine the substance and the prescribers of the innoculations that we are getting to see if they are being spun for some psyops purpose. AND we need to examine if the discreditting of Griffin is the spin. On Edit: after carefully reading the criique linked above (THANKS FOR THAT!) and carefully reading his NPC speech, I have come to the conclusion that he is probably a disinformationist to some degree. The CFR ties are just too creepy for me. And the issues he raises are simply not the most glaring problems with 9-11 BFEE complicity evidence IMHO. They strike me as somewhat of a batch of red herrings. His conclusion that the 9-11 commission report is somehow an indictment of Bush (because it does not respond to his questions put before the commission) also rings hollow to me. Prior to tonight, I had been impressed with what I saw and heard of this guy. But we have to peel the layers away to see the heart of the matter. If CFR types (BFEE-Rockefeller types) WERE behind a 9-11 MIHOP, then this dude could easily be their Jim Hatfield - sent out to distract from the more significant issues and to send us all off on wild goose chases, getting him discreditted by the left for his CFR and religious NWO beliefs, and then by making him the CHIEF SPOKESMAN with national exposure, for more innoculative BFEE lies. As for the creepy ties of the NPC and the Bohemain Grove=style logo, etc., I know too little to comment --- but it is troublesome. In trying to explain s-+ome of this stuff to my son, whose political consciousness is emerging, when he said that "We think Bush is bad, but he thinks WE are bad, so how can we know who's right?" I told him that I believe that the men in secret socieites like the Skull and Bones and Bohemian Club, the men who do bad things and lie to us and make war, do NOT believe in God or heaven or judgment and therefore they believe (and they hold in these secret societies) that they should steal all they can and kill anyone who gets in their way for their own benefit and greed and for their own "blood" (their progeny and kin). I happen to be a person of faith in righteousness and the immortality of the good soul (and the damnation or extermination of the wicked souls, per most prophetic teaching). The men now in power do not have faith. They believe only in the material world (not the spiritual) and they believe that righteousness and truth are foolish and a waste of energy. Their focus is totally on self-gratification and lust for power and wealth (mammon and filthy lucre). THAT is why we can believe that we are good and they are bad. I mention this because it relates both to the RA threads and disinformation (here at RI and abroad) -- to the "Syzygy" thread discussing "innoculation" (which, if I am correct, Griffin may well be doing), and to the "rituals" of Skull and Bones and Bohemian Grove (and why if there is a link that the NPC is suspect and part of this innoculation effort on 9-11 and otherwise, probably unbeknownst to most of its members who are good old boys but not always willing collaborators, really). The men who would do 9-11 and ritually abuse children and lie to everyone to promote war and chaos do so because they have no faith or spirituality. They use God to foul up the minds of men and women, but they have no belief in a Creator or a "Judgment" of their souls. They do not even believe in their own souls. They believe only in the "Ahrimanic": material world: greed: possession: lust: power. They believe that their power is unlimited in life because they can NEVER be held accountable as long as they keep the fascist lies and the manipulation of humanity going on their terms. On Gehinna : it is the valley of death just below the dome of the Rock and the Wailing Wall on the south side of Mount Moriah. It is not far outside the Dung gate (the shit gate in the jewish qurter where the jews were requitrred for many years to enter and exit - now near the Wailing Wall). The dead were often brought to that deep rocky valley there in the ancient days and left for the carrion eaters or burned. Probably some were burned in ritual ways. I have walked in this valley of death. Now it is a residential neighborhood to some degree and some thousands of years ago a waterway was constructed there for the temple mount. The pool of Siloam (sp?) is there where Jesus healed the blind man I believe, and the use of that area was probably no longer used for that purpose. But ritual sacrifice WAS done (just look at Abraham). Moloch was one of the heathen "gods" that got God pissed off at Solomon, I believe, because he probably let his concubines worship there on the Mount of Olives in what is now the Garden of Gethsamane and where Jesus is said to have ascended to heaven, just east of the temple Mount. The rituals pertaining to Moloch I am not familiar with, but this worship is often cited as a sort of abomination. I would not be surprised if there was ritual abuse there too. Bottom line of this late rambling post is that we need to be circumspect in ALL these things: Griffin may be a NWO BFEE liar. He may just be a lucky self promoter. Or he may just be wrong on some things and right on others. Whatever is the truth here, we need to examine people like him closely and urge others to do so also. Innoculation makes us all skeptical --- and that is one reason it is so effective. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p097.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=seventhsonjr>Seventhsonjr</A> at: 8/1/05 12:04 am

by **seemslikeadream** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 2:29 am

Well this is all very interesting. foodforlife, who said of Griffin "He's the number one spokesperson for the 9/11 truth movement right now" I hadn't heard that. Could we debate some of the facts? <a href="http://www.flcv.com/offco175.html">www.flcv.com/offco175.html</a> <a href="http://www.flcv.com/offcom11.html">www.flcv.com/offcom11.html</a> <a href="http://www.flcv.com/offcom93.html">www.flcv.com/offcom93.html</a> <a href="http://www.flcv.com/offcom77.html">www.flcv.com/offcom77.html</a> Heaven forbid someone gets to talk about alternative theories about 9/11 on CSPAN or National Press Club. My God the sky is falling! Would you prefer that there be no mention of 9/11 at all then on CSPAN? Edited by: <A HREF=http://p097.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=seemslikeadream@rigorousintuition>seemslikeadream</A> at: 8/1/05 12:52 am

by **Starman** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 3:06 am

Hmmmmm... I've seen Griffin's C-Span presentation, read articles about him and excerpts/articles by him, read his Hustler interview (recently posted here), and read what other people in the 911 Truth Movement have to say about him (specif. to debate an online newsgroup critic who's main issue broke-down to Griffin not saying the EXACT same things as Mike Ruppert -- as Ruppert's main premise is that 911 was deliberately created to legitimize and empower the US's political intimidation of developing nations and military domination of the world's key oil resources, primarily the Middle East, Caucasia/Black Sea and the Balkans, while Griffin (AFAIK) doesn't speculate so much on the National Security State motives as he focuses on the established facts of cover-up, witness/evidence/testimony inconsistencies esp. re: the 911 Kean Commission, and revealing the lies, fabricated evidence, revisions, conflicts of interest and other aspects of the 'official' story that just doesn't fit the facts. I found him to be very credible and genuine. I don't know how accurate it is to assert that Griffin is a 'spokesperson' for or a representative of the polyglot incidental association of 911 Truth Movement -- It's not like this is some kind of democratic or parliamentary 'group' with absolute or concensus views --there's a lot of variety and different beliefs held by folks within the overall context of skepticism about the official explanation of 911. But Griffin has written and researched and interviewed and compiled information and discussed the issues related to 911 and so has a very well-developed grasp of the facts and issues. I find it gratifying that someone of Griffin's critical grasp and academic standing has managed to cross the enormous obstacle of mass media resistance to a fair hearing on alternatives to the officially-sanctioned version of conspiracy. Likely his reputation as an author and university-credentialed professor/theologian has been of benefit to increasing public media attention on the near-certainty of key government and military officials being involved in perpetrating this tremendous crime. Thus, your question re: whether Griffin is putting-out the 'most effective evidence' just doesn't have any traction IMO -- there's no way to evaluate this and no way to address this even if it could be established in any kind of meaningful sense. I found the angieon911 article suggested to be rather disingenuous and specious, with several gross distortions of fact that made me suspect the author's credibility and motives. Intead of a qualified criticism of Griffin's ultimate agenda and insinuation that Griffin may be colluding in a decietful limited-hangout psyops (by targetting the Bush Administration and associated individuals for the crime of 911 instead of the global elites who stage-managed the event behind-the-scenes), I was left with the impression of someone given to making oversimplistic presumptions and unqualified judgments, whose perceptions are filtered by their interest in proving their premises, who makes public slurs and accusations based on little more than deductive inference -- in short, I ended up with more questions about the author than with Griffin. This is beside the point of, considering the great resistance the media/press has shown to providing access to anything that questions or criticizes the official same-page 911 position, how much MORE difficult it would be if Griffin were to make pointed reference to the global elites and corporate/institutional players as being the REAL culprits behind 911 -- which by referencing the angieon911 article you are (perhaps inadvertantly) alluding to as an example of his possible 'inappropriateness'. It's damn impossible enough that the Bush thugs will be held accountable for their treason and betrayal and murder, let alone their war-crimes and atrocities -- but at LEAST some people are having their eyes opened to what's going on and learning enough to ask their OWN pointed questions about the whole foul, institutionalized system, of neocolonial exploitation and massive plundering and theft by corporations being protected and enabled by an aggresive highly-militarized foreign policy by a Military Industry that perpetuates political fraud and corruption, a very efficient closed feedback-loop of injustice and abuse of power that is inherantly hostile to genuine democracy. ANY crack in the facade of official 'truth' that can be infiltrated is a big-deal opportunity. With hundreds of highly-credible, genuine and well-motivted advocates for social justice and 911 truth who have been ignored and trivialized by official conspiracy debunkers, I'm gratified that at least SOMEONE is getting through the information blockade the goons in power have thrown-up to protect their turf (and privelege of power). But -- Any specific suggestions about better evidence Griffin could promote? What about his talk did you object to? Regrdz; Starman <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smokin.gif ALT=":smokin">

by **seemslikeadream** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 3:13 am

<a href="http://www.truthemergency.us/">www.truthemergency.us/</a> By awakening independent & foreign journalists (and overwhelming mainstream gatekeepers) with a perfect storm of DC truth events aimed at Congress, the courts, and the public abroad (including new 911/war lie hearings, creative new lawsuits, and dramatic new global appeals). Main Points: 1) To develop a cross-movement strategy to show the public and the world that the tens of thousands of lives we have lost — • lost to 9/11 savagery and its toxic aftermath, • lost to shock & awe, collateral damage and depleted uranium, • lost to torture, gulag brutality, and blowback yet to come — ALL are victims of the SAME imperial vision and the SAME deceit-driven plans (ditto our national solvency, the rule of law, and the Bill of Rights) 2) To remind ourselves that leaders selling war, repression and corporate rule could fool a lot less people a lot less of the time if indie media flooded the streets and airwaves with badly needed truths. Today's bloody liars are red. Tomorrow's may be blue. Only with grassroots enlightenment and collaboration can we discredit their propaganda and reverse their brutal coup. Why July? Two improbably dark anniversaries fall back to back on July 22nd and 23rd this year, and aptly wed the two top poster children of war deceit: the Downing Street Memo and the Kean/Zelikow 9/11 Commission Report. * Friday, July 22nd is the first anniversary of the nakedly fraudulent 9/11 Commission Report – the "full and final accounting" that ducked 80% of the families' questions, hid glaring evidence of official complicity, and pointedly failed to ask how leaders lusting for Iraq conquest since September 2000 could have ever hoped to succeed without a 9/11-scale attack to ignite national fear, calls for revenge and blind support for war. * Saturday, July 23rd, is the third birthday of the Downing Street memo which documents that many months before congressional submission, the UN charade, or the "Big Mushroom Cloud" mantra began, Iraq "facts and intelligence" were already being reupholstered for a fast drive into war. (According to Richard Clarke, of course, Iraq was targeted by Rumsfeld on Sept. 11 itself, while Paul O'Neill recounts that Bush demanded an Iraq war pretext at his first cabinet huddle in Jan. 2001.) This sudden coincidence of infamous anniversaries is just too timely to ignore. It offers too many opportunities to expose the largest lies at work, enforce justice, and halt perpetual war. Schedule in Brief Friday: After the morning session of Rep. McKinney's "Did They Get It Right?" 9/11 briefing on Capitol Hill, we will be holding the first ever National Press Club briefing especially designed for the independent media. It will feature prominent victim family reactions to the Kean Commission's performance, Dr. David Ray Griffin's deconstruction of the Report, and "Weapons of Mass Deception" producer Danny Schechter's dissection of media censorship. The briefing will be fittingly led by Project Censored founder, Peter Phillips. Friday evening there will be films and a reception at American University. Saturday: From 11:00 AM to 2:00 PM we will hold a major rally presenting top truth and anti-war advocates, publicizing kindred cover-ups, and forging a common front across from the White House in Lafayette Park. Besides eminent cross-movement figures like Peter Phillips, Dr. Griffin, Gael Murphy, Robert Bowman and many other Big Picture experts, the stage will feature some of the bravest family members and some very dramatic guests. Saturday Eve: Feast, mix and dance your heart out to rebel truth bands at the American University "Tavern", and spend all day Sunday at the school in strategy conversations with leading players in the veteran and antiwar movements, the independent media, major allied truth groups, and the foreign press. (For those who do not choose to dance, we have lots of cheap beds at American University that evening as well as a big hall and breakout rooms for the Sunday strategy summit.) We Need Your Aid, Energy and Experience to organize, publicize and succeed with these events. If you understand the importance of this approach and chance, please check into our Pre Conference Discussion Group: <a href="http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/dctruthemergency">lists.riseup.net/www/info...hemergency</a> More info on speakers, schedules, etc. coming this week — please pass the word and check back often . . . These people didn't object to an association with Griffin. If he's OK with McKinney I'm not gonna worry about it.

by **DrDebugDU** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 7:41 am

Once again this reply is not about 9/11. Seventh: > On Gehinna : it is the valley of death just below the dome of the Rock and the Wailing Wall on the south side of Mount Moriah ... The dead were often brought to that deep rocky valley there in the ancient days and left for the carrion eaters or burned. Probably some were burned in ritual ways. After the child sacrifice and worship of Moloch, the valley was used a garbage dump and to dump the bodies of animals and criminals. It was a continous fire which burned there day and night and was kept going with sulfur. The world hell has to come to known as place which is not on this earth, however that is a misinterpretation of what Jesus actually says: <blockquote>Quote:<hr> "Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of gehenna (translated hell)?” Matthew, 23:33 <hr></blockquote> > But ritual sacrifice WAS done (just look at Abraham). And Abraham was told to go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering upon one of the mountains of which I shall tell you. (Genesis 22) Was the sacrifice of Isaac performed on Gehenna? We don't know, but if it was a historical event it would have happened quite close to that place. Even though this is stuff from ancient history, it has left the world with concepts like hell and the importance was such that Bible and other sources describe it as a very black page in the history of the Israelites some 2500 years ago. Back to the Bohemian Grove And here we have a group called the Bohemians who picked a name which brought us concept hell. It is a very poor choice to say the least. There are a lot of stories about groups like the Illuminati and the Bohemians as Satan worshippers. And that is not a neo-pagan term, but the biblical Satan which represents pure evil. In fact the biblical references to Satan worship are the abominations of Moloch which where such that the concept of hell is linked to the place where they worshipped this heathen god. What we know from the Alex Jones footage ( <a href="http://infowars.com/bg_story_template.html">infowars.com/bg_story_template.html</a> ) is that the most important ceremony in the Grove is the Cremation of the Care where hooded men perform a fake sacrifice using fire and are having a party around the sacrifice and indulge in all kinds of sexual activity there. The script for the Cremation of the Care has features which resemble the historical stories about the Moloch rituals. Whether actual child sacrifice takes place is just rumors except for one incident which has been documented: <blockquote>Quote:<hr> 26 July 1984: Kidnapped child-sex abuse victim, Nebraskan Paul Bonacci, a young teen, writes in his diary of being kidnapped by "the rising Black American star in the Republican Party, Larry King" who takes him in a private plane to California to participate in a snuff film made at Bohemian Grove. Bonacci was forced to have sex with a young boy who was then both sexually abused and raped repeatedly by older men, and then murdered on film. Bonacci wrote in his diary that it took place in California, in "an area that had big trees." At a public meeting in Santa Rosa, California, investigator/author ex-Senator John DeCamp later told a group that he had edited out Bonacci's 1984 references to an enormous, moss-covered owl and men in hooded red robes because he did not know then about the Owl at the Grove and thought it "too far fetched for people to believe." <a href="http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/index.php/Bohemian_Grove">demopedia.democraticunder...mian_Grove</a> <hr></blockquote> Larry King was later found guilty of raping Paul Bonacci multiple times. So that has been proven. As far as this specific story and the other boy which Bonacci claimed was murdered has not been proven nor investigated ( <a href="http://www.theconspiracy.us/9407/0029.html">www.theconspiracy.us/9407/0029.html</a> ) What really happens at the Bohemian Grove is not known, but there are strong indications that it is a place of Satanic worship and maybe - like 2500 years before - the real purpose of the Bohemian Grove is creating hell on earth there. Just like Solomon did at Gehenna.

by **robertdreed** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 8:03 am

Thought I'd make note that Abraham did NOT sacrifice his son Isaac, after a long period of deliberation and solitary communion with his G~d. The weird psychic game of "chicken" appears to have ended by G~d saying "okay, enough, you're off the hook..." and providing a syncronicity in the form of a ram with its horns caught, right near the site of the original plan of the sacrifice of Isaac. The ram got sacrificed, instead. I don't think that location was Gehenna. I think the Jewish tradition has been through a lot of changes between the times of Abraham and Moses; Moses and Noah; Noah and David; David and Solomon; etc. Totally different religious practices, from the time of the pastoral Hebrews to the days of Herod and the Second Temple- not to mention the permutations Judaism has gone through since then- which in many ways amount to wholesale revivalist and reconstructionist movements. I wouldn't call the early Hebrew religion a "theocracy" in any way that such a term is used to apply to more "modern", urban, stratified societies, the political underpinnings were totally lacking. The days of tribal chieftains were totally different than the later days of the building of great temples- or the days of the Babylonian captivity, when learned Jews populated the bureaucracy of ancient Babylon. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p097.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=robertdreed>robertdreed</A> at: 8/1/05 6:30 am

by **dbeach** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 11:04 am

the list of truth seekers is long and full of facts and spin.. its my truth filter what determines my own beliefs. griffin.. ruppert.. AJ ..rense.. icke.. tom flocco .. tarpley.. all have truths ..all have faults..? the controllers MEANwhile plan and execute theri next crime. Cafta is a huge crime yet it don't even get a yawn? WHY? same for real ids? patsy act?

by **Dreams End** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 11:20 am

I'm interested in all the topics in this thread but got us off topic with my moloch question. The one question I had that remains unanswered is, is there evidence that the Bohemian Grove folks use the term Moloch? I THINK this is just an attribution that started on the internet, as I've heard people call the owl statue Moloch, which it cleary isn't. This has no real bearing on other Bohemian Grove issues. As for Griffin...the agendas and machinations around all this stuff are so complex it's hard to know whom to trust. I got just a tad suspicious as to why Griffin seems to have been anointed, to a degree, by the media as the "spokesman" for 9/11 truth. I'll reserve judgment, however.

by **dbeach** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 12:16 pm

Dreams End.. Geru's come and go..see if Griffin has a staying power..I am not comfortable with his NWO reference...particulary that Opium popppy bush has used same phrase as has da Kiss {inger} but I do like his[Griffin] facts and spin around 9/11. I did post a Bohomian groove topic in the past and got somem nifty responses..Maybe ya should put something out there and start another Boho thread.. mines was named BOZOS at BOHO.

by **Seventhson** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 1:46 pm

The Dome of ther Rock (Haram Al Sharif, the Noble Sabctuary) is a holy place built OVER the huge rock altar where the near-sacrifice of Isaac (or Ishmael, the firstborn son of Abraham by his Arab servant Hagar, if you are Muslim) is said to have occurred. Gehenna is the valley just to the South and SW of the Old City wall of Jerusalem, probably less than a half mile to a mile away. The valley is narrow, deep and quite long (probably several miles, and exceptionally jagged rocky). A perfect place for a dump or to toss bodies (which probably needed to be burned in order to reduce disease- especially in the summer, and/or left for carrion birds) Zion, to me, represents Mount Moriah. The return or pilgrimage to Zion or Mount Moriah is, whether you are a Jew or a Muslim or a Christian (Jesus taught there, was persecuted there. prayed there, retreated near there and ascended to heaven there (the Mount of Olives/Garden of Gethsamene and was crucified just a hillside away at Golgotha (Place of the Skull) - ands outcropping of rocks that is within sight of Abraham's rock. Jesus's self-sacrifice and crucifiction in itself is a form of ritual sacrifice carried out to somehow atone for humanity's sins according to the scripture. I believe, though, that the altars to Moloch were on the Mount of Olives - another mount just east of Moriah (and the place of the ascension of Jesus, according to tradition). All very near each other. You could walk to all the sites in one afternoon and they are all pretty much visible from the temple mount and the top of the Mount of Olives (where many news reports from Israel/Palestine_ are shot overlooking Jerusalem facing west).

by **Seventhson** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 2:04 pm

What I meant to say in my last post is that this whole area is holy to Christians Jews and Muslims alike (Mohammed is said to have had his vision INSIDE a cave carved into Abraham's rock altar (the Holy of Holies) with the Angel Gabriel, Jesus, Moses and others present). The pilgrimage to Jerusalem and even to what represents ZION is a Holy thing to a huge majority of the world's population. But one of the REASONS this is the case is the history of ritual sacrifice there (Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael, Jesus, - even the slaughter of sheep and other creatures). Despite the fact that Jerusalem MEANS the "City of Peace" it is the scene of horrifying bloodshed (especially over religious beliefs and political power struggles). Having been there I understand the desire that people have to BE there. To be close to God. But I also feel that the insanity of these bloody sacrifices, these purely materialistic sensual urges, makes the whole spiritual essence of the faith very stark and scary. I tend to think that Jesus felt that he had to sacrifice himself to somehow appease God and fulfill the scripture. It may well be that a very high spiritual being COULD make this sacrifice not so much to appease God but to demonstrate the depth of compassion and human sacrifice rewquired to redeem humanity in this physical plane (and maybe the higher ones too). In other words, not so much a challenge to God to have mercy on all of us greedy bastards, but to demonstrate true selflessness and the true commitment not to material things, i.e. the flesh and greed, but to the spirit. The Bohemain Grove thing seeems to me to be just the opposite: a ritual much like that of Moloch or even of Abraham in his intent. God wants the blood of children in order to be mollified and will reward those who cause suffering and kill for this purpose. Maybe the rituals are ONLY a symbol of the faithlessness that these bastards exhibit: that they pretend to worship satan to spook the rest of us when in fact they believe in NOTHING --- and the Bohemian thing is all a dark charade. And MAYBE there are those among the boho's and BFEE who believe in these dark rituals and who have sold their souls for what is here now. Or maybe it is just there sadistic perverted necrophilia playing out with that lust for the power over children and the innocent. God Knows. I don't really understand it. It sickens me. But The rituals of Skull and Bones seem to indicate that only a fool believes in the hereafter and that the superior man grabs what he can now ruthlessly (which is why I thought and still think Kerry was a fraud - for his association with these animals).

by **antiaristo** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 7:43 pm

robert, Is that a deliberate error in your chronology? Are you checking up on us?<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)">

National Press Club invites Dr. David Griffin to speak

Re: National Press Club invites Dr. David Griffin to speak

Re: National Press Club invites Dr. David Griffin to speak

David Griffin's Credibility

Re:Griffin seems to have been with some decent company here

Re: More about Gehenna and Moloch

Abraham and Isaac

Re: Abraham and Isaac

Interesting and sorry for the threadjack

Re: Interesting and sorry for the threadjack

Quick note on Mount Moriah and Gehenna

Moriah correction

Chronology

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