please respond to my research question

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Re: whoa there

Postby DrDebugDU » Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:32 pm

nymarya:<br><br>The reptilian issue is not proven as far as I am concerned and I'd like to see some real evidence as well, however I keep an open mind about the possibility of non-humans.<br><br>And Jimi Hendrix isn't that far fetched either. I'd advice you to read Mae Brussell, because she talks a lot about John Lennon and Jimi Hendrix as well and has fascinating insights about John F. Kennedy.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr><br>Tom: You apparently believe there was a government conspiracy to assassinate and silence John Lennon which was conducted by the same people who murdered other political figures and musicians in the past eighteen years?<br><br>Mae: Absolutely! The federal government has maintained active programs to eliminate rock musicians and disrupt rock concerts. Senator Frank Church's Committee hearings in 1975 and the FBI Cointel-Programs clearly document the intent to break up any gatherings of the "new left". Nothing brought anti-war demonstrators together with political messages more effectively than music festivals.<br><br>There is <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>hard evidence the CIA assigned agents to "investigate the music industry."</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> After the murders of Tim Buckley, Jim Croce, and Mama Cass Elliot, more information surfaced about earlier mysterious deaths of Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison, and Janis Joplin. Listed below, but not updated this past year, are some of the rock musicians who have died since the Huston Plan and the FBI Cointel-Program were activated. If these people had been taking any kinds of drugs, there is the distinct possibility that specific poisons were added to their drugs, enough to be fatal, to make it appear that they had died from a simple "overdose".<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.maebrussell.com/Mae%20Brussell%20Articles/John%20Lennon%20Assassination.html">www.maebrussell.com/Mae%2...ation.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>And the music industry was a real issue back then. Since then they have manipulated the market and let it be dominated by Sony, Vivendi/Universal, Bertelsmann and other no good elite corporations who selected their singers for entertainment purposes only and most of which don't have the guts to speak out and be political. They manipulate the chart to make sure that non-political entertainment gets first billing preferable from people which can be mindcontrolled. <br><br>And that is all a direct result of the political music in the 60s which is gone now except for some artists, but it's a small minority. Yes there are teletons where the official message is put accross and people are asked to give money - just like the elite wants it. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=drdebugdu>DrDebugDU</A> at: 9/20/05 4:57 pm<br></i>
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Major downsizing necessary for capitalism to survive

Postby proldic » Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:37 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Do you really believe the Anglo American aristocracy want to kill their own wage slaves and annihalate their houses and yachts ?<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>I don't know about <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>all</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> the slaves, but many of them, yes. If anyone will feel the connection like I do, here's from a previous thread about economic downsizing in the US:<br> <br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>?: If the idea is to take all the money away from the working class, how will the working class pay for the products that the elites produce? What is the objective?</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>Answer:Short answer: work longer and harder<br>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br> It happens periodically throughout capitalist history – a cycle of expand and contract, expand and contract. The most recent “Great Depression” of the ‘30’s is a good example.<br><br>The “back story” is how the hidden hand of capitalism acts on the level of manipulating that cycle, primarily to control the power (and expectations) of working people, specifically in the form of a check on the growth of organized labor and concurrent social benefits. It also has the additional benefit (to them) of removing thousands of small and medium-sized businesses - “getting rid of the competition” for the giant monopolies and trusts. <br><br>The concept of “surplus labor” is also important. To survive, capitalism must maintain a large pool of un-and under-employed workers. On a basic level, the existence of this speaks to the obvious failure of “our” system to provide full employment. On another level, it is necessary for them to maintain this large population of Americans so as to contribute to the check on the growth of an organized class of workers. Beyond simply keeping these people off the shop floor and out of the unions, another way this helps the p.t.b. is by providing a ready supply of cheap temporary replacement workers (note the huge growth in non-professional temp agencies), forms of essentially free or “slave” labor (think work-for-welfare programs), and of course strikebreakers. Many of those folks end up becoming what Marx called “lumpen”, living in a state of hopelessness and depression that feeds crime and psychological problems, which also happen to benefit the system in their own ways<br><br>(I believe) that the popular idea that the power of the capitalists is built upon the sale of consumer goods (“gidgets, gadgets, and widgets” as Starhawk calls them) is a “big lie” meme being pushed right alongside “blame middle America”, “red sate/blue state”, “buy nothing day”, “the end of suburbia”, “peak oil”, and “decentralization”. This lie places the blame for our corrupt system straight at the feet of the working class. Essentially, we’re fat, eat at McDonalds, drive SUV’s, and it’s our wastefulness that drives the system. To many people, this analysis seems to be true - I mean, many of us are wasteful and polluting, and we are caught up in a consumerist TV-driven lifestyles. Except those pure and enlightened folks who are all off-the-grid, buying from small-scale organic farms, driving grease cars, and home schooling their kids. (Not that there’s anything wrong with those things - per se.)<br><br>On the level that counts the most, this idea about how capitalism functions is dead wrong. On the level of numbers, it’s a lie. By a clear margin, the majority of the profits made by the capitalists are from selling us vital necessities - necessities that would ordinarily be socialized in a just economy. Food and water, housing, health care, energy, means of communication. The other (huge) part of that goes to what could be called essentially military uses. The smallest part of their profits comes from the sale of “non-necessary” consumer goods. <br><br>Come downsizing, we will still have to pay for those necessities. Also, if you look in poor neighborhoods here in the US or even in the “3rd world”, you see a ton of money being made off of people in poverty, from things like check cashing, lack of free transportation, predatory lending, etc. etc. And there are still tons of cheap and cheaply-made consumer goods being sold to the poor, even in the slums of Rio. <br><br>This is all about an “austerity” program being pushed by the elites at a time of "percolating people power". They will tell us that "more people will have to learn to do without”. More children will become malnourished. Many, many more formerly decently-paid workers will join the ranks of the poor. The question is how hard and how long this contraction will be, and how bad it will have to get before working-class people see their commonality, wake up, and start mass-organizing effectively. <br><br>The scary bottom line is that we are segueing into a “3rd world” economy here in the US and Canada. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: whoa there

Postby Seventhsonjr » Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:55 pm

Look, you two.<br><br>Calling someone braindead or a dimwit is a very poor argument and rude.<br><br>You DID say Nymara that you favored human extinction if other species could survive.<br><br>Now that is essentially the same as saying you want us all dead. Our children too.<br><br>You could hardly expect us not to "pile on" our disagreement and call you out when you say you want us dead.<br><br>I mean that is what Bush and his Nazis have been basically doing and why we have banded together here. To try and prevent it.<br><br>I happen to be a believer in the teachings of Buckminster Fuller who said there really is plenty for all of us, but the BushNazi crooks are stealing it all not only from us innocent humans (and most of us have no means to change the status quo of global corporate fascism) but from all species.<br><br>They are death. They are the end of humanity. And we oppose that.<br><br>Anyway, I do think it is wrong and simply poor discourse to name call and insult. I tend only to do that if I feel really put upon by a fascist infiltrator.<br><br>The concept that the Earth would be better off without humans is OF COURSE an arguable one --- but it is so subjective a topic that arguing about it is asinine. It is simply a matter of opinion.<br><br>If your opinion is that you prefer that all of us and yourself be dead, as well as our children and parents and loved ones - it is pretty reasonable to expect someone to call you "brain dead". Calling someone a bitch and a dimwit for objecting is I think an example of self-righteou methinks thou dost protest too much.<br><br>And throwing in the jibes about Jimi's suspicious death and occult mystical perspectives on evil sometimes kicked around here as somehow comparable to imply that we are only jumping on you for being "politically incorrect" when you say you want us dead --- well that then makes the intent of your direction suspicious.<br><br>Are you here to discuss and reason and to debate or to demean and insult and ridicule?<br><br>All I can say is that people should not bite this bait.<br><br>I understand the gist and I understand the rancor --- but civil discourse would resolve this. So would apologies all around. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Major downsizing necessary for capitalism to survive

Postby eric144 » Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:22 pm

"I don't know about all the slaves, but many of them, yes"<br><br>No doubt that's what bird flu and AIDS are for.<br><br>"how bad it will have to get before working-class people see their commonality, wake up, and start mass-organizing effectively. "<br><br>Americans are brainwashed against collective action and the left in Britain has been neutralised by Rupert Murdoch and his employees Blair and Thatcher.<br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Nymarya

Postby RollickHooper » Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:46 pm

It's like a window flew open, and an icy blast of fresh air ruffled some of your musty old feathers. Yes, this board is and has been a warm safehaven, away from trolls and flamewars and we should all try to keep it that way. Sometimes I wonder what Jeff thinks--Jeff, the all-seeing eye of Rigorous Intuition--we don't really know, do we, if he's providing a vital service or playing a cruel joke?<br>Keeping an open mind is one thing, but believing everything you hear is pure folly. Believing only what you choose to believe in is possibly worse.<br><br>Of course, people close to Jimi Hendrix would say it was murder--all the more so if he was involved in seditious activities--wouldn't want his death to be ruled accidental, no that won't do at all. <p></p><i></i>
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About this board

Postby DrDebugDU » Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:59 pm

> Yes, this board is and has been a warm safehaven, away from trolls and flamewars and we should all try to keep it that way. Sometimes I wonder what Jeff thinks- -Jeff, the all-seeing eye of Rigorous Intuition--we don't really know, do we, if he's providing a vital service or playing a cruel joke?<br><br>I think it has turned out to be a trendemous board. Did you notice that nobody ever got banned here and that there are hardly any flamewars here. It's amazing. Most boards gets many times more fights. It almost seems like this totally absurd crowd is one of the most peaceful on the internet... so that part is well done :thumbup:<br><br>One thing nymarya probably doesn't realize is that it was created as a safe heaven for the weird kooks so they could talk among themselves and set their mind free, so a lot of subjects seem far fetched from an outsider's perspective, but remember that most here have been on the path of truth for years and investigated and researched many dark subjects which let them to see the world differently. <br><br>I hope the veils of your mind will lift one by one and you'll be able to experience a new look on humanity and it'll be more positive and you'll see that humanity has a raison d'etre despite everything and it is also a survivor and will be here for a long time. Humans are like roaches, you can't get rid off them... <p></p><i></i>
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Re: About this board

Postby Project Willow » Tue Sep 20, 2005 8:34 pm

I've spent almost ten years being a part of one online survivor support group or another. In my experience, these groups have considerably less fighting and more general tolerance than any others I have been exposed to. Maybe part of it is that members have often spent long years in therapy. I imagine the relative calmness of this board is due to the fact that many here are also experiencers of the various unusual topics Jeff has attempt to expose.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I hope the veils of your mind will lift one by one and you'll be able to experience a new look on humanity and it'll be more positive and you'll see that humanity has a raison d'etre despite everything and it is also a survivor and will be here for a long time. Humans are like roaches, you can't get rid off them...<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>This thread has been incredibly disturbing to me. Could we please put the comments back into the context of the OP?<br>It started as a theoretical excersize, people not hesitating to wager on the demise of the species. <br><br>This is highly personal, but some of these reactions have increased my sadness. If the *idea* that humans don't deserve to continue is so offensive, then obviously my despair and disconnection are more profound than I thought. I have experienced more evil than good, (qualitatively, if such things can be measured by thought) and it seems to get worse everyday. The good appears to be a feather and its foe a giant boulder. I wonder what things look like from other perspectives. How do you get to those viewing points?<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: About this board

Postby DrDebugDU » Tue Sep 20, 2005 8:37 pm

> I wonder what things look like from other perspectives. How do you get to those viewing points?<br><br>Downloading it right now. The latest speech from the Dalai Lama given today in Tucson. Give it a listen. It'll make you feel better<br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://205.234.182.76/dalailama.mp3">205.234.182.76/dalailama.mp3</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br>I admit it, I'm a hardcore Dalai Lama follower, but my experience is that it'll make you feel more at peace. <p></p><i></i>
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Shadow of the Dalai Lama

Postby proldic » Tue Sep 20, 2005 8:59 pm

Since you are a <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>hardcore</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> DL follower, I'm assuming you've already digested this:<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.trimondi.de/SDLE/Index.htm">www.trimondi.de/SDLE/Index.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>and this:<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html">www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>I have yet to see any adequate responses to the issues the "Trimondis" raise... <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Shadow of the Dalai Lama

Postby DrDebugDU » Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:04 pm

There is a lot of reason to critise the Dalai Lama, but I know what his talks mean to me and how it felt like meeting the Dalai Lama. So you have to look at the whole package and yes Tibet was a corrupt country. Yes, the 5th Dalai Lama killed many people. Yes, the 6th Dalai Lama spend most of his time fucking and wasn't interested in anything.<br><br>But I know the impact his books, his teachings, his lectures have been. I have walked through in a state of bliss after his lecture and one in three Parisians greeted me because I radiated that bliss.<br><br>Trimondis looks at everything negatively. I have no reason to study him. He only spread hatred. And the Dalai Lama is quite open and has written much about the CIA and the Khampa Warriors and that that operation was one huge failure thanks to the CIA. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=drdebugdu>DrDebugDU</A> at: 9/20/05 7:09 pm<br></i>
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Goodbye and thanks for all the fish

Postby Nymarya » Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:16 pm

I explained the point of my post and you keep repeating I want you all dead.<br><br>You know what? The net is full of fabulous message boards that are not full of people who seem to be literal minded in a way I have only encountered before in people who are mentally disturbed...unable to process irony, metaphor, hyperbole, or humor.<br><br>I had a valid point, and I think the response here was little short of insane.<br><br>Congratulations. I will never return to your board again, because I have a dark and ironic sense of humor and it's a dead solid certainty I will barely be able to open my mouth without tripping someone's neurotic hypersensitivity or paranoia. I can't talk to people with minds that are thus limited or emotions that are so out of whack or reactions that are utterly inappropriate.<br><br>I do apologize for calling Annalivia a bitch. I think she's probably suffering from some form of mental illness, maybe PTSD. She thinks I'm a horrible person. I think she needs therapy. If someone overreacted like this to me in person, literally calling me a would-be murderer, I would get a restraining order.<br><br>By the way, I don't think Charlie's a reptile, though he sure is ugly, and I DO think the CIA killed Jimi.<br><br>I have a lot to offer and a lot to learn, and this seemed a promising place. Thanks to Annalivia and her defenders, I'm outa here and while I will still recommend Jeff's blog, I will not recommend this board. As I said, too many other cool places full of people who aren't rat-ass nuts. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Jimi's activities "seditious"?

Postby Seventhsonjr » Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:21 pm

<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"Of course, people close to Jimi Hendrix would say it was murder--all the more so if he was involved in seditious activities--wouldn't want his death to be ruled accidental, no that won't do at all.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> <br><br>Jimi was more of a patriot than the bastards that probably killed him. He was trying to STOP sedition NOT engage in seditious activities himself.<br><br>The murder of peace and civil rights activists to stop their activities in opposition to an illegal and immoral war and the inhumanity of genocide in the US was sedition.<br><br>That was the opposite of everything that Jimi stood for.<br><br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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awww c'mon

Postby proldic » Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:22 pm

don't be a wimp!<br><br>Sounds like a cop-out.<br><br>If I thought of giving up everytime I was pig-piled and unpopular on this board....<br><br>...hey, there'd be no more Proldic to LOL about..... <p></p><i></i>
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Bye

Postby DrDebugDU » Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:24 pm

I'm sorry that you had to repeat name calling because you had an argument. Given this reaction your leaving is the best choice. Anger and hatred don't make friends. I hope you'll learn that at your next board to hang out. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Shadow of the Dalai Lama

Postby Project Willow » Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:32 pm

Dr.<br>That post was goodness, and I'm tucking it in and saving it, the link as well.<br><br>Thanks. <p></p><i></i>
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