Bombshell: Silverstein Wanted To Demolish Building 7 On 9/11

[apologydue]

nathan28 wrote to apologydue:

It also doesn't look like you plan on wearing this thread out with nuance or commitment to understanding, either, because they might get in the way of kneejerk reactions like uncritical acceptance of any PrisonPlanet dumpster-diving tablescrap as a delicacy.

You're a little late nathan28. What took you so long? Smoke or lunch break?

Very good nathan28. Attacking the source instead of the message. Did you read that in the textbook or invent it yourself? Perhaps you should jump on Silverstein's spokesman instead of prisonplanet. Prisonplanet was only one of many balance sheets upon which Silverstein's spokesman's words are stored. But nice try. Nothing like attacking the the media source when you're slap out of common sense answers huh? You better study some more because obviously you have forgotten what to do when logic has its leg down your throat.

I think a repeat is the best answer. And then i'm possibly done with this thread, but since you are always so predictably on schedule I at least wanted to acknowledge that you are a bit late today. Didn't want to leave you out of the affection zone.

Quote:
There is a distinct difference between active promotion and silence, and here the difference is made.

[JackRiddler]

apologydue,

Some polls have shown up to 50 percent of Americans believe regime command knew 9/11 was coming, and were happy to have it so. This is a breath away from just saying it was fixed. It's also what I encounter from people I meet.

Same polls show at most 15 or 16 percent believe in CD of towers. The way you talk, the other 85 percent work for Wackenhut and spend their lives waiting for you to post, so that they can dismiss the hyper-importance of CD. That's what you've now insinuated for nathan and for me. (We're actually the same guy here at the New Building 7. Larry's next door. Happy?)

Your answer was very lame. Why? Presumably you do think there are many people who aren't "Wackenhut" and who you could therefore convince, though you may dismiss me. Some of them may be reading. If you don't feel like stating your own arguments on the physical evidence, tell them where they should go: What book, site, author, article, video do you consider most persuasive? I swear I'm not going to spend much time if any knocking it, whether I think it's one of the better ones or not. Not worth my time. Just curious.

[apologydue]

Some polls have shown up to 50 percent of Americans believe regime command knew 9/11 was coming, and were happy to have it so. This is a breath away from just saying it was fixed. It's also what I encounter from people I meet.

That is a little bit confusing to me jack but let me try. I'll give it my best shot for you and you correct me when I misconstrue your meaning ok?

Some polls have shown up to 50 percent of Americans believe regime command knew 9/11 was coming, and were happy to have it so.

I may stick words in your mouth so pull em out when I do. I take that to mean that 1/2 of Americans perceived that their government intel was on top of the job and was glad they were protected? Is that correct?

This is a breath away from just saying it was fixed.

But that seems to mean the opposite, as if 1/2 thought the fix was in and the gov. was complicit?


When we make it past this we'll go to the rest.

[JackRiddler]

Some polls have shown up to 50 percent of Americans believe regime command knew 9/11 was coming, and were happy to have it so. This is a breath away from just saying it was fixed. It's also what I encounter from people I meet.

That is a little bit confusing to me jack but let me try. I'll give it my best shot for you and you correct me when I misconstrue your meaning ok?

Some polls have shown up to 50 percent of Americans believe regime command knew 9/11 was coming, and were happy to have it so.

I may stick words in your mouth so pull em out when I do. I take that to mean that 1/2 of Americans perceived that their government intel was on top of the job and was glad they were protected? Is that correct?

No, attributing foreknowledge means they think officials knew what would happen, and were content intentionally to let it happen, and planned for it. Was I unclear? How would it be protection if the government knew, but intentionally did nothing? Who was protected?! And it's a breath away from asking, how could they know and let it happen, without being in on it? If you mean the other half, they're the ones who believe the official story - a surprise attack.

As for your reply to nathan28: He's not attacking the "source," because Watson is the source of nothing here. Shapiro is the source. Watson's just the guy who wrote it up, using faulty logic (such as the assumption that the insurance company must have said no and that Silverstein is successfully deceiving the insurance company). Watson doesn't matter at all. Either Shapiro's story is true and raises the question of what was actually said on the phone. Or Shapiro's story is untrue.

What's your favored argument or arguer for CD, please. Book, site, person, or your own arguments. On the basis of the physical evidence. Thanks.

[Iamwhomiam]

Very interesting! So glad I stopped by.

I at first thought this was some ancient thread, resurrected with some new, revealing evidence of some sort added, proving something or other, but alas and alack! How sad it is to see this is a current thread.

As one who was horrified to learn of Kennedy's assassination, being sent home from school to mourn and to have witnessed Ruby shooting "Oswald" on live TV a few days later, just after my mother had uttered "I wish someone would kill him.".. how could things possible be worse?

To have lived through the other various assassinations of hope during the sixties while the "conflict" in Viet Nam raged on, never again able to view the photos of my senior prom without feeling a great sadness for those pictured in them who fell so far from home; to have lost two cousins and a man who as an infant I held in my arms in 911; what could possibly be worse?

To bear witness to the first modern resource war in Iraq, followed quickly by another in Afghanistan, with bases all along the pipeline, watching, reading, as bodies and minds of other parents children are blown apart, what could possibly be worse?

A single parent who lost my only son to an assassin who was an identical twin, disenfranchised by his abusive father, a disabled Viet Vet divorced from their mother and now living in Viet Nam with his Vietnamese wife and, what could be possibly be worse?

You know, the most meaningful, intelligent comment in this silly string, for me at least, was this, back on page 4 by Simulist:

Even if controlled demolition were proven — beyond a shadow of a doubt! — would it really make any difference in the larger scheme of things?

Probably not. (Although I used to think it would.)

Lots of terrible truths about this nation have been unearthed and then proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, and it hasn't changed the national bankruptcy-making, imperialistic trajectory of this country. We're still hurtling towards the abyss with the same people in charge, even after numerous proven revelations that show — with nauseating clarity — that this simply isn't the nation we were taught that it was "then" or that we're supposed to believe that it is now.

If 9/11 really was an inside job — and a proven inside job! — comparatively few will care.

How can anyone really doubt that? There's always American idol. Or internet porn. Or televangelism. Or some other equally damned distraction. (I apologize for placing internet porn and televangelism next to American Idol; such a "cultural beacon" doesn't deserve the guilt by association.)

So all the facts can be laid bare (yet again), and hashed out. We can each cook up the most vile curse to hurl at each other for not seeing "the truth," and the only thing this might accomplish is a possible (and very negligible) increase in sales for Prilosec sometime before bedtime tonight.

And none of it will make an ant's hill worth of difference.

No. It doesn't. And there is absolutely nothing any of us can do individually or collectively to abate the coming horrors.

That said, we can still slide slivers under the nails of the elite on occasion, and I do as often as possible. I've long dedicated my life to this and will continue to do so as long as I'm able.

One of the local and international battles I am engaged in is fighting waste incineration. This is admittedly a tiny annoyance to the ptb, but I enjoy every victory and there are many, though there are some losses too. Right now there are incinerators being proposed in Wisconsin; Detroit; Seattle; Hawaii; Durham, Ontario; Vancouver, BC and in many other locations around the world. These you do something about. You can organize opposition to these and you can win. The Truth is hard to deny, though they will lie their tails off.

It's almost as good a feeling as I got years ago chasing the "photographer" taking pictures of us around the columns of a Washington, DC building, taking his picture as often as possible.

Worrying and arguing about what was is like getting wet today from yesterday's rain.
And holding an umbrella today will be of no help.

Live life to its fullest. Be in the moment and always remember only you are responsible for how you react to the emotions of others. Be as engaged or unengaged as you wish. We are born alone and we die alone. Be always prepared for that moment.

"It must be remembered that there is nothing more difficult to plan, more doubtful of success, nor more dangerous to manage, than the creation of a new system. For the initiator has the enmity of all who would profit by the preservation of the old institutions and merely lukewarm defenders in those who would gain by the new ones." Machiavelli

Got that isachar? isachar? I guess the fish got 'em.

apologies for veering off-topic a wee bit

[apologydue]

Damn. I barely hit submit and you had paragraphs written. Reminds me of 23's question when he asked if people could see what was planned for submission before it was submitted. I've seen this before many times. How does this happen? What a conundrum. I swear its like you watched me compose my last message in my editor and replied to it in real time. Pretty freaky. Glad i'm not the only one that has noticed this seeming keystroke log capability. Makes me feel a little more sane.

Same polls show at most 15 or 16 percent believe in CD of towers. The way you talk, the other 85 percent work for Wackenhut and spend their lives waiting for you to post, so that they can dismiss the hyper-importance of CD. That's what you've now insinuated for nathan and for me. (We're actually the same guy here at the New Building 7. Larry's next door. Happy?)

Yeah that makes me happier. Always good to know who i'm chatting with. Tell Larry I said hello and that Wackenhut is not my idea of a vacation destination. Tell him i'm too old to be a threat and that i'm just a soon to be retired armchair pontificator that knows better than to mess with him. Do they let you talk to Larry? If you and nathan28 are the same guy you have done a damn good job of splitting the personality sox. My hat is off to ya. But somehow I doubt you're the same. I've been wrong before though.

15 or 16, on a national basis, according to my personal experiences, may be somewhere in the ballpark. From what I have experienced it may be more like 50% in the New York area if separated from national statistics. However, I would plot the other 85% nationally speaking in the clueless range because I know they don't work for Larry. They are way too stupid to be working for Larry. Cheetos, Fox, and CNN are doing the job. The poison is working.

Its hard for me to answer your question JR because my background is not typical. My knowledge of certain aspects of the system is far advanced to the 85%. I knew it fairly quickly after i saw it. I don't even attempt to educate others because it would never compute. This is just a little hobby lobby. My perspective is that the small percentage of people that disembark from the television and turn to the internet will indeed find the truth. There is no certain source of internet news that informs a mind disembarked from the television. Aron Russo damn sure didn't do the status quo any good but he seems to have already met an untimely demise from a heart attack. Maybe an apple pie heart attack. Who knows. Sodium Morphate smells like apple pie ya know?

Its the CD stuff in general. Any human being that has seen CD documentaries on television, and can then disembark from television, and be shown the comparison can easily see it. Fact is that 85% never disembark. The American mind has been groomed to be much too lazy to disembark. So Larry probably has nothing to worry about. As a matter of fact I think the quo is a bit paranoid and over doing the show. The serfs at large have no idea.

Its the new generation that scours the internet they need to worry about. If the kill the info they won't have to teach them a lesson in obedience. What should they kill? Thats hard to say because the difference between collapse and implosion is so obvious.

I can't be any more specific and i've said more than I intended to say already.

[barracuda]

Damn. I barely hit submit and you had paragraphs written. Reminds me of 23's question when he asked if people could see what was planned for submission before it was submitted. I've seen this before many times. How does this happen? What a conundrum. I swear its like you watched me compose my last message in my editor and replied to it in real time. Pretty freaky. Glad i'm not the only one that has noticed this seeming keystroke log capability. Makes me feel a little more sane.

Wow, yeah. That is a trip, huh? It's somewhat OT, I know, but I'd be interested in your thoughts on that. What's up with that, do you think, apologydue?

[JackRiddler]

Damn. I barely hit submit and you had paragraphs written. Reminds me of 23's question when he asked if people could see what was planned for submission before it was submitted. I've seen this before many times. How does this happen? What a conundrum. I swear its like you watched me compose my last message in my editor and replied to it in real time. Pretty freaky. Glad i'm not the only one that has noticed this seeming keystroke log capability. Makes me feel a little more sane.

For your own sake, I hope you're a debunker's hoax.

[swindled69]

BTW: Even if the decision was made to CD WTC 7. How and when was the building rigged?

I personally knew a person who used to own a demolition company in New York City in the middle to late 90's. From the conversations I had with him following 9/11, he told me that there had been talk that after the first WTC attack in 93, that the towers were outfitted with a rudimentary demolition system that, in a case such as we saw on 9/11, the towers could be brought down in a fashion to save lives and prevent a horrific tragedy......

but he's dead now.

I seriously doubt FDNY is going to allow anyone to load up any hi-rise office building with explosives just in case. Get real, someone is going to rig a building to blow up, in case someone else wants to try to blow up them and doesn't do a good enough job? What a brilliant idea, not.

You sir are a tool

[82_28]

I don't understand the hatred this shit brings out of people. What is the consensus around here? I try to follow these threads about 9/11 just because it interests me, as it does and should everybody.

We got raped that day, I say. All of humanity got raped. We were used. Our brains were used to usher in all of these contradictions, confusions and were put into real time. It's the process. They understand our "software" and this is how it was done. This is our clue. We cannot argue about something horrible and not forget that this was horrible. Horror was to be wreaked that day -- and it was. The last thing anybody here needs is to hate one another over arguments that obviously somebody hates us. We know this. Somebody hates us. This is a given.

I want to know why. Funds, money, or even an occult ritual were used that day to get a job done. There was a JOB THAT NEEDED TO GET DONE THAT DAY. And, thus, the job got done. We're all here trying to figure out the cruelty aspect of all this. How in the living fuck can anybody be so cruel? We know this answer. We bombarded Iraq and sent all citizens of Baghdad into neurosis. Somebody, somewhere (is it us?) doesn't give a fuck about life and the lives innocent creatures live. But why this way? It's too late in the day to hate. Far too late amongst fellows.

[DoYouEverWonder]

BTW: Even if the decision was made to CD WTC 7. How and when was the building rigged?

I personally knew a person who used to own a demolition company in New York City in the middle to late 90's. From the conversations I had with him following 9/11, he told me that there had been talk that after the first WTC attack in 93, that the towers were outfitted with a rudimentary demolition system that, in a case such as we saw on 9/11, the towers could be brought down in a fashion to save lives and prevent a horrific tragedy......

but he's dead now.

I seriously doubt FDNY is going to allow anyone to load up any hi-rise office building with explosives just in case. Get real, someone is going to rig a building to blow up, in case someone else wants to try to blow up them and doesn't do a good enough job? What a brilliant idea, not.

You sir are a tool

Why? Because I refuse to drink Kool-aid?

BTW: I'm not a sir.

[nathan28]

I don't understand the hatred this shit brings out of people. What is the consensus around here? I try to follow these threads about 9/11 just because it interests me, as it does and should everybody.

From the non-CD perspective:

Because:

1. CD as it's been approached doesn't prove anything no matter how many times you demonstrate the building fell at freefall. Frankly, I would just take that as a goddamn given. Running PhysicsLab again isn't going to show anything knew. I note that here this story is being taken as more "CASE CLOSED!" evidence but no one even knows what happened on the other end of that call to the ins. co., which is materially relevant.

2. Many, many other things that happened on 9/11 have been obscured or lied about and are just as significant at showing the same general pattern. They are all just as damning and many of them reveal things OUTSIDE of the actual 9/11 events and demonstrate a much larger pattern of not just deception on one day in history but years and decades of state crimes centered around the same institutions and even individuals. E.g., the funding flows through Riggs Bank, which show complicity of agents of the Saudi gov't, using the same institution that the CIA, every politician in DC and every Third World dictator used to obscure their own accounts. Sounds really goddamn rotten and suggests to me an ongoing pattern of crime--whereas all "proving" CD proves is on incident among many.

3. You can't charge a weapon with a crime.

4. Attempts to access the actual evidence that would demonstrate CD, which could reopen the investigation, have either been denied, or are impossible. Most of the building's steel has been melted; the courts have repeated denied access to Fresh Kills Landfill. Work like that with the self-published study of "thermate" chips showed no respect for fair rules of evidence which means, simply, it's not good enough. But I understand that a nation that wanted to electrocute O.J. Simpson without a retrial even after detectives admitted to planting evidence might not care about those things.


I don't expect anyone with an idee fixe over collapsing towers to change their minds, and it's frustrating to see them shut off their fucking brains over something I already grant as possible and even probable. It reminds me about that metaphorical guy looking for his keys in one place when he dropped them down a stormdrain because "the light is better over here."

[chump]

Jeff's is playing devil's advocate; trying to get people riled up. He is too smart to seriously believe that any of those WTC buildings were brought down by anything but explosives in a (semi-) controlled demolition.

What is the evidence to the contrary? To me, the most glaring fact that got overlooked by the media is that all the buildings fell at damn near free-fall speed. There is also the crimp, the squibs, the explosions heard on videotape, the multitude of eyewitnesses (dead and alive); but the media ran with the offial story and most people can't seem to get over that!

Silverstein misspoke? He sure did! What was he thinking!? Why did Shapiro get on national TV and say this, replete with obvious contradictions? Was it unintentional, or did he say it for a reason? I don't believe anything this guy has to say. Ventura either. They take an element of truth and turn it into a dead end.

I don't know why this is coming out now, but apologydue has a good theory. The continuing media modus operandi after 9/11 reminds me so much of the "controversies" following the JFK conspiracy. In the meantime, the viewer is reminded again and again of the vision of the perpetrators' handiwork. The myth is reinforced in the minds of those who don't know any better or don't care, and the frustration is deepened in those who do.

By the way, I am of the opinion that the WTC 1 and 2 may have been rigged with explosives when they were built, and then further rigged in the months before 9/11. Whatever! There were numerous opportunities to do it in the months and years leading up to that day. WTC 7 had undergone major construction only a short time before. I guess I'm one of those stupid fuckers who muddy the water.

It is my understanding that "CD'ers" are frowned upon because they detract from what could be a genuine investigation? Hmm. We are headed down the same path that the disinformation networks, assassination committees, mock trials and and media expose's have taken us in the past. An "official" inquiry would accomplish even less "justice" than before.

I used to think it was important that people understand what happened so there would be mass demonstrations, maybe a even a national strike to force a real investigation and get some justice. Of course, now I know better. 9/11 was a message from the perpetrators that their plans for a NWO have been put into action.

This event has shaken me to my foundation; which is probably what it was intended to do - on a massive scale. GWB said, "You're either with us, or you're with the terrorists". Most people seem willing to go along with that. Should I, and others, who do not wish to be a part of this plan, move away or risk a mental collapse into this Totalitarian mindset!? Does anyone else feel a lack of motivation to fuel the Fascists?

Yet, sure enough, I am drawn into this nightmare; like I'm on the SS Titanic trying to convince Captain Smith to slow down. But, he won't listen. He doesn't even know that I exist. Besides, he knows the risk. We're racing through a minefield to reach that pot of gold, or to pick the last apple on SS Earth. There is a way through. And we' re gonna try again and again and again until we figure it out. Maybe.

[Iamwhomiam]

Seriously, even if there was a full admission that revealed the truth of this plot, do any of you really believe that would change anything, anything at all?

If you do, please tell us what it is that you think would change, because I don't believe it would change anything, at least not for the better.

[norton ash]

I think it was CD. I think 9-11 was a planned spectacle pulled off by many branches of international organized crime to usher in the fucked-up new times.

It makes no difference, because the general public doesn't want to know. Do you really think 'proving' CD is going to change anything? Various 'proofs' are there, but they don't add up to the extraordinary proof required by people like Jeff, and I'm cool with that.

It makes no difference.

In that vein, I have intelligent friends who counter 9-11 crime revelations with "Why bother studying this? What difference can it make to your life?"

So I tell 'em they're frogs in warming water, and they tell me "whatever" and we talk about baseball. And I look at the sky, and there's no fucking way those clouds and contrails are natural, and we just keep walking.

Edit: more cross-post synchronicity above!