Dissociation Mimics Enlightenment

[IanEye]

People who are dissociated...
People who are dissociated...
People who are dissociated...
People who are dissociated...
People who are dissociated...
People who are dissociated ...
People who are dissociated ...
People who are dissociated ...
People who are dissociated ...
People who are dissociated...
People who are dissociated....

Repetition is the most basic form of mind control.

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"Repetition is a form of change."

_-_

"we wrote this next song for us all..."
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[LilyPatToo]

...

I wonder sometimes if some of the programs were aimed at straining everything out to "mine" the purity of God and make a part out of it just for spiritual superpowers (which he had, except he didn't see them as superpowers.)

sw

Certain of my caregivers assert that the perps' failure to "mine out" whatever part of our being holds a connection to the spiritual is what allows us to retain a core inviolate sense of self and eventually to escape. On the other hand, some abilities that might be considered metaphysical were isolated to parts and developed.

Yes. I'm always sorry when we begin to discuss this side of mind control and are drowned out by the skeptics' derisive voices. I totally understand their concern about perpetuating disinformation, but damn it there were people messing with me who seemed to be primarily interested in my precognitive abilities. I know how that sounds, but it still happened and I think that just dismissing it out of prejudice--no matter how well-founded--is a serious mistake if they ever hope to understand what was going on with some of the perps.

Whatever those abilities were, my deep feeling is that they were connected to an underlying truth about the actual nature of Reality. Whether they were a link to what some call God, I don't know. Meeting the few 'inside people' that I have so far and learning just parts of their stories has cut me off from my spiritual beliefs. I miss them terribly, but just can't *trust* anyone or anything enough to believe anymore. Unlike Willow, I suspect that I escaped because I was let go...which I put down to having been such a PITA to them over the past 6 years. I wonder if they don't sometimes use those of us who continue to believe to seed W.O.O.? (thinking of Beth Goobie and also other survivors I've known personally)

And perhaps it's partly our ability to dissociate that allowed us to tap into the metaphysical, especially when we were younger? Maybe only Space Cadets get to go into space and actually work there?

LilyPat

[Sounder]

Thanks Project Willow, sw and LilyPatToo

LilyPatToo wrote…

…. but damn it there were people messing with me who seemed to be primarily interested in my precognitive abilities. I know how that sounds, but it still happened and I think that just dismissing it out of prejudice--no matter how well-founded--is a serious mistake if they ever hope to understand what was going on with some of the perps.

I wonder if the assignment for the perps is to find out or better delineate what happens at the interface between the intangible and the tangible. The splits that result from natural coping strategies may also trigger access to unconscious or inner (integrative?) resources that represent contact with a larger field of being. Because the power of the system depends on the maintenance of split psyches, it may have a need to know about what happens when those ‘splits’ are driven too far.

Whatever those abilities were, my deep feeling is that they were connected to an underlying truth about the actual nature of Reality.

Sounds about right.

Whether they were a link to what some call God, I don't know.

We do not seem to have words or an accurate context to describe the ideas involved, yet.

Meeting the few 'inside people' that I have so far and learning just parts of their stories has cut me off from my spiritual beliefs.

I wonder if these people have conventional or heretical beliefs. In any case it seems possible that ‘belief’ locks one into a fixed relationship with Source or the ground of being, whereas a dynamic relationship would seem to be healthier.

I miss them terribly, but just can't *trust* anyone or anything enough to believe anymore. Unlike Willow, I suspect that I escaped because I was let go...which I put down to having been such a PITA to them over the past 6 years. I wonder if they don't sometimes use those of us who continue to believe to seed W.O.O.? (thinking of Beth Goobie and also other survivors I've known personally)

The human spirit cannot be stopped in its efforts to integrate more elements into its understanding. But it’s also natural that when deeper issues are treated, violence is done by shoehorning them into a basic naïve realist picture of reality.

And perhaps it's partly our ability to dissociate that allowed us to tap into the metaphysical, especially when we were younger? Maybe only Space Cadets get to go into space and actually work there?

Won’t it be nice when we have positive rather than negative inducements to step past the patterns of our conditioning?

It’s good to be reminded about tips for a healthy lifestyle.

The following is similar to what I term thought experiments, where the answers to questions can be quite useful and often entertaining to boot. Although sure, it can be painful at times also.

Oops, I forgot to attribute the last writing to Daniel, sorry

ENGAGE IN INNER DIALOGUE: This form of self-reflection allows us to ask ourselves a question in our own mind, and let ourselves free associate to the answer. Our mind has the capacity to always give us just the answer we need at any given time – and to answer with the most beautiful truth – if only we ask and listen for the answer. Inner Dialoguing is almost a magical technique, because it is so simple and obvious: ask yourself a question and just listen for the answer! Why it can be so hard for so many people, however, is that they live their lives so dishonestly that they are terrified to GET the answer.

[DeltaDawn]

Sounder says "Engage in Inner Dialogue" which might bring us back to the OP title. I once told a psychiatrist that I did that and was immediately told with no other questions that we needed to look into the possibility of MPD (which it was called at the time). It was learned then to refer it to praying inwardly and listening to the "Holy Spirit's" answer, as it probably was for me at the time, had already learned that Christianity had been laughed upon in my childhood and when I stuck with the concept, was immediately put in a Catholic school where there were rules & consequences to every action. The 'enlightment' for me was learning that the strengths of all 'alters' could be brought out at any time, as I've said before, the only one I don't know is the child, and what could she bring to my table in life?? Just saying, the title of this thread is right on!

I thank everyone for their input on this thread, it has been very 'enlightening'.

[Simulist]

I'm starting to think that a better title for the OP might be "Dissociation Mimics Common Expectations of Enlightenment."

[demolished]

The term, "enlightenment," irks me — and perhaps for no other reason than those who apply it to themselves almost inevitably aren't.

If someone were actually "enlightened" s/he might well lack all self-consciousness of being so, since s/he's found the "self" itself to be illusory.

The "self" is a mental construct, made up for the convenience of expression .

When enlightened, the person realises that "his/her/self" is a figment of imagination.

[LilyPatToo]

Sounder, thank you for your considered reply to what I wrote. Had I not been so rushed with holiday stuff, I would have posted sooner. You said:

I wonder if the assignment for the perps is to find out or better delineate what happens at the interface between the intangible and the tangible. The splits that result from natural coping strategies may also trigger access to unconscious or inner (integrative?) resources that represent contact with a larger field of being. Because the power of the system depends on the maintenance of split psyches, it may have a need to know about what happens when those ‘splits’ are driven too far.

I've been thinking about that for days. And since so many other survivors of the trauma-based methods of mind control are exceptionally psychically gifted (the ones I know personally, I mean), I do think that systematized trauma may bring out (cause to be expressed?) some of the innate abilities that all humans have. My own take on it is that it's survival-linked. The more endangered I was, the more often the precognition flared. Even being in a scientist's experiment, which she told me put a real damper on most of her subjects' abilities, had no effect--I continued to have visions, premonitions and precognitive dreams constantly. Most incidents I foresaw had no bearing on my personal safety, but some did.

Whether or not it's also a route to contact with an ineffable "other" reality is unknown to me. I tend to be very cautious about assuming that it does, after seeing how easily fellow survivors have slipped into either unquestioning belief or even into being drawn to rigid fundamentalist religions that mimic programming structure in their minds. I used to have a t-shirt that said that the cracked ones let in more light But whether that light is what we who perceive it think it is isn't proven to my satisfaction yet.

Since the 70's (when a handler gave me a run-through and then a post-hypnotic suggestion that I would no longer be precognitive) I've had almost nothing psy-related happen. But just half an hour or so ago, I had a minor bit of telepathy or precognition happen. I was dissociated (very tired and doing dishes) and suddenly a former friend popped into my mind out of nowhere--nothing I was doing or looking at had a link to her and we've completely dropped out of touch over the years. I'd just sat down here at the computer to catch up with the board when the phone rang and guess who it was?!

I wish to heck I was enlightened enough to understand how that works...

LIlyPat

[American Dream]

Here is some more from the same site:

http://www.iraresoul.com/sayings.html



SAYINGS



Sibling rivalry is displaced fury at the parents

Betraying your parents’ needs is not a crime, but a necessity

Rejection by the family kills most, and enlightens a few

Lack of maternal enlightenment is harmful to fetal development

Most incest never involves physical touch

You can never become a true adult unless you rid yourself of your false parental figures

When mental illness is the norm, only extreme emotional disturbance and extreme enlightenment are considered mentally ill

If you think you are not mentally ill then you are either enlightened or in denial

Most normal people have been just unfortunate enough to be conventional in their pathology

People who know the exact dimensions of their craziness are on the vanguard of sanity

When we destroy our environment we are expressing our hatred for our children

War is a manifestation of the drama in your psyche

Repressed feelings are the ultimate carcinogen

Most adults are just as needy as children – they just hide it better

Mild alcoholism is a beneficial trait in a society that prizes numbness

When society supports emotional children raising children, that society should be sterilized

Don’t underestimate the power of psychology, only psychologists

If the world of liars hates you, it’s generally a good sign for your honesty

People kill prophets because prophets kill delusions

Studying the brain is checkers, studying the mind is chess

The easiest way to forgive your parents is to give up your own spiritual quest

Most artists have no idea what they’re really trying to say

Most people are little more than spectators in their own lives

Grandiosity brings self-esteem to the persona, not the person

If you believe you cannot heal that only goes to show how much you desperately need to

Self-reflection is the key to evolution

Question everyone’s motives, but question your own first

The true pacifist wages war against his inner lies

Study your hidden motives and you’ll discover you have a lot more in common with your enemies than you realized

The world’s last frontier is the psyche, and that’s the one we’ve been searching for all along

The more you get honest with yourself, the more inevitable your enlightenment becomes

Denying the truth of a child is violent

Tradition is only valuable where it overlaps with truth

We are all geniuses, just most untapped

[Simulist]

"Sayings"? From whom?

Since I can't find a source for these "sayings" other than the site's author himself, I will suppose that he is elevating his own wording to the level of "sayings" — as in "The 'Sayings' of Jesus" or perhaps the "sayings" of some other supposedly "enlightened" being.

If so, then that may smack more of ego inflation than a genuine form of enlightenment — which is one reason I'm probably in favor of abandoning the term altogether, especially the more one might be tempted to apply it to oneself: much like "humility," the minute you think you're finally getting it, you're actually losing it.

[Sounder]

Daniel maybe does have a bit of the wisdom thing going on, but he seems a bit light on the compassion side of things. Some of his ‘wisdom’ also seems twisted on account of poor relationship skills.

I don’t know, what do you think about Daniels writing AD?

[marycarnival]

Here is one more from Daniel Mackler's website, which sounds like it might reflect elements of his own experience:



When a mother and father fight in front of their child, and worse yet use their child as a pawn in the marriage, even in the mildest and subtlest of ways – which is so utterly common in our world that it goes essentially unnoticed – the child suffers abuse. Children need two parents who live in radical emotional harmony with each other. Any family dynamic that fails to meet this basic criteria is a setup for toxicity for the child.

This whole thing makes me feel like my head is going to explode...but this bit here...uh, what about a woman whose husband (or partner, if we're talking about same-sex couples, who this guy completely ignores) dies? Maybe I'm reading too much of my own experience into this, but I do not believe that my mother was abusing me by raising me on her own after my father died. How exactly does this guy expect a grieving woman to find another partner with whom she feels this magical (and pretty unrealistic, for the most part) 'radical emotional harmony' with? I think if she shacked up or married someone without going through her own grieving process (and helping me through mine), that THAT would be abusive. And there are MANY other ways such a separation scenario could play out....what about a woman who chooses to take her child and leave a physically abusive spouse/partner? Jeez louise...If child abuse is inevitable, then no one should ever have children under any circumstances, and the human race should just die out. I know that this is just what some people think should happen, but C'MON!!! Sheesh...This dude has some serious issues.

[American Dream]

While Daniel Mackler offers up some interesting food for thought, he is clearly not fully recovered either.

Still, I do agree that parents should find a way not to "fight in front of their child, and worse yet use their child as a pawn in the marriage"....

[marycarnival]

While Daniel Mackler offers up some interesting food for thought, he is clearly not fully recovered either.

Still, I do agree that parents should find a way not to "fight in front of their child, and worse yet use their child as a pawn in the marriage"....

Absolutely. But...

'Children need two parents who live in radical emotional harmony with each other. Any family dynamic that fails to meet this basic criteria is a setup for toxicity for the child.'

That's where he really lost me. Too much rigidity in thinking can be 'toxic' too.