Helter-Skelter Alert: Toledo riots!

[albion]

Correction, that article wasn't by Chuck Munson, it was by Mark Salotte. Sorry Mark, wherever you are. (edited above to reflect that) Not only did no Nazis get arrested, but according some accounts their march was going to have police protection, so the police were already there. But according to other reports the Nazis didn't have a permit. Hmm. <br><br><br> "I don't think it was race relations at all."<br>-Toledo mayor Jack Ford<br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N15402412.htm">www.alertnet.org/thenews/...402412.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br> <p></p><i></i>

[proldic]

I've been busy, so although I know I've skimmed them, I can't remember the details of any of your other posts specifically, but for some reason upon reading this thread I just got this sudden feeling that you've had some very interesting experiences in your life. Haven't we all, right? But my feeling was there's something else. Not bad necessarily or anything, mind you. Maybe it's nothing, or just your comments here. Maybe I'll regret saying it if I was to re-read your posts. Just a feeling. <p></p><i></i>

[banned]

....interesting <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rolleyes --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/eyes.gif ALT=":rolleyes"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br>There was a time when I would have told you nothing that happened in the three decades I lived in Cleveland was interesting, but in retrospect, stuff like working for Mafia connected attorneys, covering Dennis Kucinich's victory party and subsequent telecast with Tom Snyder of the "Tomorrow" show for my college paper, growing up blue collar in a snooty 'burb, fighting a corrupt police department that covered up a guy who tried to kill me and later did kill another woman--yeah, I've had some experiences which I now dub "School of Hard Knocks" and am extremely grateful for, as I look around at my peers in sunny California and listen to their mellooooow New Age blather and realize they do not have a fucking CLUE what real life is about, and more importantly, couldn't handle it if they were forced to confront it--they'd be gibbering in a too-tight white jacket. Give me a Cleveburger any time, or better yet a Noo Yawker, if I want to talk about the real world, not a state where we're lookin' down the muzzle of a Goober-natter-ial election between a cyborg and the patsy from "The Parallax View."<br><br>What ezackly were you referring to? <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :b --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":b"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>

[proldic]

dunno<br>what you say is pretty much sums it up<br>must have picked up on your take on things subliminally<br>them's just 'vibes' -- carry on <p></p><i></i>

[robertdreed]

"...I look around at my peers in sunny California and listen to their mellooooow New Age blather and realize they do not have a fucking CLUE what real life is about, and more importantly, couldn't handle it if they were forced to confront it--they'd be gibbering in a too-tight white jacket. Give me a Cleveburger any time, or better yet a Noo Yawker, if I want to talk about the real world..."<br><br>I've lived all over the country- and in California for the past 20 years. This "world" here in Sacramento is as real as the rest of it. If pervasive corruption, cynicism, a constant state of inter-ethnic tension, harshness, abrasiveness, political stasis, local powerlessness, and disdainful mockery of 60s hippie mellow life patterns and cultural trappings constitute "more real"- I prefer this Fantasyland where I've been living, where the good guys win sometimes. <br><br>As it happens, I'm moving out of California soon. You won't catch me gibbering in a too-tight white jacket. But I'll miss this place. <br><br>And yeah, I know some of the New Agey types you're talking about. Some of them admittedly have pronounced tendencies toward fatuity- although by no means all of them. At least the West Coast has enough latitude in terms of social tolerance to provide a place for them. I'll take that over people having their idealism psychically pummeled out of them. <br><br>I was just at a Burning Man Decompression party in San Francisco, surrounded by people in costumes, many dressed like stuffed animals. A street party, thousands of people, no cops in sight, not a fist thrown. <br> <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.burningman.com/blackrockcity_yearround/special_events/decompression/decom2005.html">www.burningman.com/blackr...m2005.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.webarches.com/omtaiyo/sfdecomp/">www.webarches.com/omtaiyo/sfdecomp/</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>I wonder how much of that I'm going to get where I'm moving. <br><br><br><br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=robertdreed>robertdreed</A> at: 10/16/05 4:11 pm<br></i>

[Dreams End]

This is a repeating tactic. I'm sorry I don't remember the date or the city but another poster a few months ago talked about a Klan rally that was surrounded by protestors. A "socialist" organization that I subsequently found out had a rep for being provocateurs, urged the protesters toward violence. So yes, I'd expect to see more of this...and then those of us on the left are "forced" to deal with the actions of our alleged compatriots. <p></p><i></i>

[robertdreed]

The "Black Bloc" people are problematic. It's hard to know who's an infiltrator. Apparently they were getting really obnoxious at the recent peace march in Washington. They've been known to do "breakaway" rampages in San Francisco, too- vandalism, dumpster burning. Mostly kid stuff, but... <br><br>Interesting note- at the 2001 inauguration of George Bush, Jr., a bunch of black bloc people actually climbed a flagpole at, I think it was the Navy Memorial- they raised a black anarchist flag- and then one of them literally leaped off of the flagpole into the arms of one of his compatriots, below. At least 25-30 feet. There's a terrific photo of the jumper at full horizontal like a sky diver, with a DC policeman in a helmet a few feet below him, ducking to get out of his way. Great photo, should have been in the running for a Pulitzer. It was posted on DC Indymedia at the time of the protests.<br><br>That was a serious stunt, worthy of a Navy SEAL team. Maybe it was amateurs with finely honed stage-diving skills, but it was definitely a move that took some practice. The spotter on the ground who caught the jumper was black, by the way. <br><br>No judgment on whether or not they were provocateurs- as a coordinated team effort, I actually found it impressive. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=robertdreed>robertdreed</A> at: 10/16/05 4:14 pm<br></i>

[Dreams End]

Let's give equal time, here. There are a lot of little left groups that seem only to be around to disrupt other left groups and start fights at peaceful demonstration. And this makes sense...if you were the evil emperor, you'd want to have all your bases covered. <p></p><i></i>

[jingofever]

I found that picture: <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://dc.indymedia.org/newswire/display/5705">dc.indymedia.org/newswire/display/5705</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>Everyone seems surprised. <p></p><i></i>

[marykmusic]

Wow... impressive picture! Indymedia rules!<br><br>The second inaugural parade was much more difficult to infiltrate. --MaryK <p></p><i></i>

[robertdreed]

Yeah, that's the one. There are a couple of other photos after that one, too. <p></p><i></i>

[banned]

...gets conflated with antisocial behavior anyway--it's always been misunderstood, and hated by both right and left totalitarians. But these 'black flag' people, who not too long ago had a rampage in Palo Alto, I am convinced have nothing to do with classical anarchist thought. They're crackpots and I have no doubt they're controlled to totally discredit anti-globalism. Back at the time of the protests in Seattle, I was appalled how few people I knew had any clue what the real issues were--all they saw was crazy people, mostly kids, who were vandalizing. Then I realized, that was the whole plan. <p></p><i></i>

[marykmusic]

...has now posted the story, and here's a quote that says not everyone's telling a one-sided story: <!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>"They accomplished what they wanted," Sheriff Telb said of the Nazi group. "They got chaos."<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>This tells me that at least some law enforcement knew exactly what was going on.<br><br>Story here: <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/101605B.shtml" target="top">www.truthout.org/docs_2005/101605B.shtml</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br>I agree that the anarchy groups (which are not particularly organized because that's against their most basic principles) often seem to give us "legitimate" protestors a bad name. And this has been going on for a while, even in my experience. Back in the day (and I graduated high school in 1969, then went to college and majored in War Protest and Street Musicianship), the Students for a Democratic Society was big on total disruption of ALL governmental and organizational control, including those, such as firemen and other emergency personnel, who watched out for people. But they had absolutely no plan for the reorganization of society after The Revolution. I found that short-sighted and silly. I also thought those people I knew who were into that, wanted nothing more than free drugs and a constant party. Spoiled brats, I thought, with no sense of history or future.<br><br>Now I realize that they, and many other groups, were (and are) infiltrated, encouraged, and directed by saboteurs on gov't payroll. --MaryK <p></p><i></i>

[ewastud]

I am reminded of the a small fracas that went unnoticed almost until the assassination of John Kennedy. Recall the confrontation between "pro-Castro" Oswald and anti-castro Cubans that was staged in New Orleans when Oswald handed out leaflets. This incident led to Oswald and the Cubans going on a local TV show to debate and get themselves yet more attention and publicity. Perhaps some similar scheme is being hatched with this Nazi march as well. Time to be vigilant! <p></p><i></i>

[banned]

I wasn't a campus rebel--took me 9 years to work my way through college so I didn't have time <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :D --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> --but I was antiwar, basically an anarchist though I didn't know it yet (temperamentally I've always been an anarchist, I should say, but knew nothing about anarchism as a movement). I was profoundly suspicious of the wackier elements of the movement, they seemed to me even then like agents provocateurs, designed to discredit the legitimate criticisms of the war and of American society in general.<br><br>I remember one day before I started college, while I was working as a nurse's aide cleaning up poop, one of my high school friends came home from Ohio University and told me that Jerry Rubin had said we should kill our parents. Once he'd cleared up that Jerry Rubin wasn't the guy from the Grateful Dead, I pointed out that since (a) his parents were very nice people and (b) were paying for his college, and (c) I wasn't sure why he should listen to this Jerry guy, who apparently didn't even play music but had been one of those guys who put up a pig for President in '68 which I thought had been droll but not particularly useful, that didn't seem to be very good advice. I wasn't very fond of my own alcoholic parents, but if I decided to Lizzie Borden them it would be for my own reasons, not because Jerry Rubin told me so. Also, Jerry had not killed his own parents, mainly because they were already dead. Anyway, sounding like Ward Cleaver, I asked my friend "If Jerry Rubin told you to jump off a cliff, would you?"<br><br>Cut to Jerry Rubin's untimely demise in 1994, after he had become a (dawk!) stockbroker. Paul Krassner got the last word when he said in "The Realist" that he couldn't think of a more fitting death for an anarchist than to be run over while jaywalking .<br><br><br><br><!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :lol --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>