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alwyn wrote:I'm not sure how they are a 'necessary adaptation to the scale of current consumption',
alwyn wrote:and how do they enable sell back? can you 'splain?
wintler2 wrote:alwyn wrote:and how do they enable sell back? can you 'splain?
Some smart meters include or can be plugged into a grid-tie inverter, basically a box for turning electricity generated via say solar PV panels (DC at 24 or 48 volts) into your grids AC 240volt (or whatever it is for you heathens). Why would you put electricity into the grid? to get paid of course! i know 3 one person households within a mile that use less electricity than their solar PV systems produce, they gets $50-200/year from power co.
Not all smart meters are the same tho, and there is a bit of Monorail/blackbox mystery about them, simply because we're so used to electricity as some sort of always-on no-thought-reqd teat. That privelidge is expiring.
Grid ties do not need smart meters to work. They work quite well with the existing meters. My son, whose father works in the solar industry, has informed me that PGE requires smart meters for the grid ties, but up until this year, he was installing them with the existing mechanical meters. The selling power on the smart meter works only as well as the programming for the smart meter...in this day of black box voting, do we trust that these meters are working for us?
Pentagon to Receive Smart Grid Upgrade
Wiki image
Activist Post
The new Smart Grid program that is being rolled out across the world in the name of "saving the environment" has already come under fire on multiple fronts.
Writers such as Cassandra Anderson (http://www.activistpost.com/2011/08/sma ... avery.html) and Marti Oakley (http://www.activistpost.com/2011/08/sma ... n-4th.html) have addressed the documented negative health effects; the fallacy that costs will be reduced, the violation of the Commerce Clause, as well as the potential for intrusive surveillance in violation of the Fourth Amendment to the U. S. Constitution.
Consequently, there is mounting resistance among citizens (http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/2011/03 ... wn-devices) to the implementation of Smart Grid technology, which has caused many communities to back off installations of these electric meters. However, some stealth plans for implementation of Smart water and gas meters continues apace.
The Pentagon is evidently not bothered by much of what has been revealed by citizen investigations, and will be receiving an infrastructure upgrade from the team of behemoth military defense contractors Boeing and Siemens (http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases ... 25978.html) that promises to "improve energy access and security for the U.S. Department of Defense."
Within this defense and energy initiative we can also see what Judy Marks, the head of Siemens U.S. Federal Business, highlights as "a vision for the United States' energy future."
VIDEO
Perhaps this initiative is moving forward as propaganda due to the flagging support of the public. Let's face it, the Pentagon has never been much concerned with wasting money (http://articles.sfgate.com/2003-05-18/n ... accounting) before (think $640 toilet seat), or accounting (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... money.html) for the money given them by taxpayers (think 95% of Iraq reconstruction funds gone AWOL).
Rather, this seems like another inside deal that will be used to ram through a dubious green agenda and continue fleecing the American taxpayer.
Sure, the grid-tie will work without the smartmeter, in the simple sense that you can put your electricity into the grid. But the Grid wont work with millions of households putting random amounts of elec into it, which is why some sort of demand management mechanism is reqd.alwyn wrote:Grid ties do not need smart meters to work. They work quite well with the existing meters. My son, whose father works in the solar industry, has informed me that PGE requires smart meters for the grid ties, but up until this year, he was installing them with the existing mechanical meters.
alwyn wrote:The selling power on the smart meter works only as well as the programming for the smart meter...in this day of black box voting, do we trust that these meters are working for us?
eyeno wrote:...All we are truly doing is handing over control of our power grid to the oligarchs.
eyeno wrote:Piss em off and they will just cut off your power. Now they can mess with your 'individual' power on a case by case basis from the home office without ever having to come to your house. Unprecedented control. Not to mention the snooping capability.
82_28 wrote:Wintler2, why is it so goddamned impossible for you to find it within yourself to entertain different styles of thought and refrain from condescension?
Wintler2 needs his/her own blog to get it out of their system. Always, feel of course that you are free to post in anyone's presence, but man, drop the condescension. You're not remotely "all that". I read your stuff, but it is probably the most well written but least interesting anything that is done here. I think you could start by digging deep within yourself and finding the remotest of remote mote of humor you may still have in your heart.
And yeah, I do think fucking Santa Claus is running the show.
Burnt Hill wrote:82_28 wrote:Wintler2, why is it so goddamned impossible for you to find it within yourself to entertain different styles of thought and refrain from condescension?
Wintler2 needs his/her own blog to get it out of their system. Always, feel of course that you are free to post in anyone's presence, but man, drop the condescension. You're not remotely "all that". I read your stuff, but it is probably the most well written but least interesting anything that is done here. I think you could start by digging deep within yourself and finding the remotest of remote mote of humor you may still have in your heart.
And yeah, I do think fucking Santa Claus is running the show.
$82.28- do you have any idea how hypocritical and condescending your post is?
Besides off topic, as I am.
Burnt Hill wrote:82_28 wrote:Wintler2, why is it so goddamned impossible for you to find it within yourself to entertain different styles of thought and refrain from condescension?
Wintler2 needs his/her own blog to get it out of their system. Always, feel of course that you are free to post in anyone's presence, but man, drop the condescension. You're not remotely "all that". I read your stuff, but it is probably the most well written but least interesting anything that is done here. I think you could start by digging deep within yourself and finding the remotest of remote mote of humor you may still have in your heart.
And yeah, I do think fucking Santa Claus is running the show.
$82.28- do you have any idea how hypocritical and condescending your post is?
Besides off topic, as I am.
82_28 wrote:Wintler2, why is it so goddamned impossible for you to find it within yourself to entertain different styles of thought and refrain from condescension?
Wintler2 needs his/her own blog to get it out of their system. Always, feel of course that you are free to post in anyone's presence, but man, drop the condescension. You're not remotely "all that". I read your stuff, but it is probably the most well written but least interesting anything that is done here. I think you could start by digging deep within yourself and finding the remotest of remote mote of humor you may still have in your heart.
And yeah, I do think fucking Santa Claus is running the show.
Fixx wrote:82_28 wrote:Wintler2, why is it so goddamned impossible for you to find it within yourself to entertain different styles of thought and refrain from condescension?
Wintler2 needs his/her own blog to get it out of their system. Always, feel of course that you are free to post in anyone's presence, but man, drop the condescension. You're not remotely "all that". I read your stuff, but it is probably the most well written but least interesting anything that is done here. I think you could start by digging deep within yourself and finding the remotest of remote mote of humor you may still have in your heart.
And yeah, I do think fucking Santa Claus is running the show.
Nope, nothing wrong with Wintler's posts, I find them very interesting, you may want to look upping the quality of the content of yours though.
Smart meters, dumb response
Kevin Drum, Political Animal (Washington Monthly)
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archiv ... 011790.php
Here's a good example of consumer group shortsightedness. My local power company, Southern California Edison, wants to start rolling out "smart meters" in people's homes, an initiative that would (a) cost money but (b) almost certainly cut down electricity usage in the long run. Here's the response the LA Times got in a story today about the rollout costs:
"Edison is assuming that people will use and respond to this stuff. . . but we don't have any guaranteed benefits here," said Mindy Spatt, spokeswoman for the San Francisco-based Utility Reform Network. "The only thing that's guaranteed is the cost."
...."Whether the consumer has a smart meter or the consumer has a dumb meter, the bottom line for the consumer is that the less [electricity] they use, the less they pay, and the more they use, the more they pay," Spatt said. "That's a message I'm willing to deliver for free."
Yeah, I'm willing to deliver it for free too. In fact, I just did. But I don't expect that this post will really have much impact on my readers' electricity use. Conversely, a colorful LCD display in your home that showed you, in real time, how much electricity you were using and how much it cost, would almost certainly change your habits over time.
The way the system works is fairly simple: your old meter gets replaced by a nifty new SmartConnect meter, which then connects wirelessly to a display inside your home. It can also connect wirelessly to compatible appliances in your home and you can, if you want, program the unit to automatically turn certain appliances off if the price of electricity goes over a certain level. I haven't seen what the actual indoor meters look like, but you can get an idea here.
Scoffing at this stuff is dumb. People respond to incentives and they respond more strongly when the incentives are right in front of their faces. Sure, smart meters cost money, but there's no free lunch. It's an idea whose time has come.
(1 August 2007)
Press release: Southern California Edison has a business case forecasting more customer savings than costs from smart metering.
Businesses paid not to use power
Kristin Goff, The Ottawa Citizen
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/new ... ffd9063307
When temperatures soared across Ontario this week, businesses like Magna, Royal Group, Canada's Wonderland and Lear Corp. in southern Ontario responded by cutting back on their power use.
It was a responsible thing to do and helped the York Region's hydro service deal with the exceptional demands of near-record temperatures.
But the companies, along with others in a pool managed by Rodan Energy, got more than the satisfaction of doing their part for the community good. They got paid for not using electricity.
Rodan's payment structure "is confidential," said Caroline Lofthouse, a spokeswoman. But the concept of paying companies for what they don't use is about to become a lot more widespread. The York Region program was one of two pilots for a provincewide "demand response" program that the Ontario Power Authority hopes to introduce by the end of this month. ..
(3 Aug 2007)
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