Orgone and Wilhelm Reich

by **LoganSquare** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 12:01 pm

I agree Wintler. William Steig's drawing of a man bound mummy-like foot to head, clenching the end of the rope tightly in his mouth became a permanent reminder after seeing it in 1987. "Only you yourself can be your liberator." It and others can be seen at: <a href="http://www.hermes-press.com/reich.htm">www.hermes-press.com/reich.htm</a> Reich quote (circa 1950): All boundaries between science and religion, science and art, objective and subjective, quantity and quality, physics and psychology, astronomy and religion, God and ether, are irrevocably breaking down, being replaced by a common functioning principle (CFP) of all nature which branches out into the various kinds of human experience.

by **marykmusic** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 12:36 pm

Just like yin/yang, Orgone is simply the name chosen by Reich for a very old concept. There is a positive and a negative manifestation, also. Have you ever been in a gathering of people in which the conversation was stimulationg and fun, the very atmosphere seemed positively charged? That would be an example of positive orgone, or P.O.R. It can also be found in a glorious meadow, a heathy forest, or a beautiful mountaintop. Or a cathedral full of the sincere faithful. How about near a nuclear power plant, stuck in traffic on a hot day, locked in an argument with in-laws? That's an example of negative, "dead" orgone, or D.O.R. These are two terms used for these measureable, palpable conditions. The orgone generator, named the Holy Hand Grenade or HHG, was developed by my brother, Don Croft. I've written about this before. Its purpose is to transmute DOR into POR, and it works. People discovered that they could place a device such as an HHG on their desk at work and help "clean up" the negative energy, infighting, bad-workplace energy. This was reported over and over, for the last several years that I've been aware of it. The same with our homes and neighborhoods. On the other hand, Reich's orgone accumulator, as espoused with James DeMeo, merely draws in the DOR and stores it, unless a way of funnelling it off is used. The energy itself is not changed or transmuted in any way. Of course, had Reich's life not been cut short, he was working on that (his laboratory was destroyed when he was arrested and soon after, died in prison. An autopsy that was requested by his family was denied.) The cloudbuster or chembuster is what is used to clean up the sky, and to normalize the weather patterns, bringing rain here to Arizona. And it's not only about chemtrails (they're hardly ever seen 'round here anymore), but also smog, stink (cuts down feedlot odor), and even mosquitoes. Different energy add-ons can accomplish whatever the operator can imagine. This brings in radionics and energy signatures. There's no defined limit. The power to define is the power to limit... --MaryK

by **Camino Real** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 2:28 pm

I just built my first Don Croft tower with the help of a friend. Been looking at Don Croft's work for over a year now, but was a little intimated by the endeavor. Finally, drought and terrible weather patterns kicked me off the fence and into action. Guess what. It works.

by **anotherdrew** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 3:40 pm

I'm told a lot of his books have just recently been republished, so now is a good time to check your book stores or online to order. Also there is a documentary called "viva little man" that is a nice movie - interviews people who knew him, wife and such. made in the early 80s I think. worth seeing I felt, give a sence of the mileu of people he was around.

by **revelation** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 5:17 pm

Camino, what do the Croft towers actually do? I've done an experiment with accumulators (specifically one of the bion experiments detailed in DeMeo's book), and the sample kept in the accumulator produced a thick, black gook on the surface, while the control sample simply turned green with algae(I used lake water taken from a single bucket in both cases, and I've never seen lake water produce anything so disgusting). I'm planning on an experiment with cactus seeds next, as an accumulator is supposed to accelerate growth. I'm pretty sceptical about the orgone generators(Holy Handgrenades, croft towers, etc.) All the inventors of these tend to have an Icke'ish vibe about them; gov't collusion with evil aliens, commands from the good aliens to close interdimensional portals, magic quartz crystals, sacred geometry, etc. Smells a bit like a ufo-cult to me. educate-yourself.org used to have alot of text on these guys, but it's down now. google cache for educate-yourself.org: <a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%2Bsite%3Aeducate-yourself.org+%2Borgone&btnG=Search">www.google.com/search?hl=...tnG=Search</a>

by **glubglubglub** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 6:04 pm

or threatening; it's meant as neither. (I was born an insufferable jerk and so I shall remain; believe me if I wasn't giving you the benefit of the doubt here I'd not be asking any questions): Does Don Croft know why his devices have the effects that they do? And, to the extent that the effects are composed of discernible subeffects, could he design modified versions of those devices to enhance some of those sub effects and turn down others? If, instead, he knows such fine-grained adjustment to be impossible, why is it impossible and how does he know it to be so? If, as you say, the DeMeo device simply accumulates negative orgone, why does it accumulate negative orgone (and not positive orgone or both)? Is it possible to design an accumulator of positive orgone? If so how does it differ from the DeMeo design, and what is it about those differences that causes the postive accumulator to behave so differently from the negative accumulator? --- On the assumption that at least some of the various orgone devices out there now (the Croft tower, etc.) do in fact perform some function and/or have some effect, please forgive me for not being excessively impressed with the results so far, at least in comparison with what Reich thought he was onto: dissolving clouds and/or chemtrails is not unimpressive, but creating heat with no apparent source -- as Reich claimed to have done and as was reported upthread -- is in many ways a much more impressive result, at least insofar as meeting some of the day's more pressing needs (like finding potent alternative energy sources) is concerned. Has any progress been made towards (re)developing that device and/or acoomplishing similar things with orgone? If so, how is it going? What are the more recent developments along this line, and what are the major issues holding up development. If not, why not? Has it been tried and found not to work? Has the community's current (hopefully improved) understanding of orgone found a reason why such a project is unlikely to succeed? --- In the examples you gave of positive and negative orgone (the dinner party etc., the nuke plant etc.) is it the feeling associated with those settings/environments that is the orgone? Is the feeling merely indicative that the body (or the mind or both) somehow senses the presence of orgone (positive or negative)? --- revelation: we should meetup on irc (or silc if we're going to be paranoid) sometime. which network(s) are you on?

by **wildgarden** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 8:48 pm

I've been building and using the Croft style devices for several years and have had impressive and readily discernable success doing so. I've not been very involved with the online communities as there's quite a bit of politics, posturing, and the inevitable cult of the founder. Still well worth a try to make these and experiment with them. I am not clear on the etheric mechanics involved, but have noticed over and again certain distinctly positive and helpful phenomena when I use these.

by **Connut** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:47 pm

What's the old quote? Something like "Dismissal prior to investigation is ignorance". Go and make a cloud buster and see for yourself what happens. I have a little one in my office (I made myself) and you can feel the hear rising up out of the pipes, so the heat effect is there. And I get a lot of visitors in my office who comment on how pleasant it is here. Anecdotal but what the heck. Try it yourself. Connut

by **prunesquallori** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 6:04 pm

If an orgone accumulator can indeed produce heat from nothing, then why have I never heard of anyone successfully powering a conventional Stirling engine with one? Even if it can simply concentrate heat from its surroundings, a la Maxwell's demon, a Stirling engine would run indefinitely from this action.

by **revelation** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 6:41 pm

Dismissing something without investigation isn't good; but, there is definitely a cultish thread to many of the orgone-related devices. Reich introduced cloudbusters and accumulators, and dealt with them as experimental equiptment; keeping logbooks, testing hypotheses, etc., and my own experience leads me to believe that there's something to them. Generators and chembusters, OTOH, are sometimes built so differently that it's hard to believe that they operate on the same principles. And since the theory behind orgone devices is spotty at best ( Reich admitted many times that he didn't fully understand the nature of orgone ), I'd say a healthy degree of caution is necessary. That said, quartz crystals, BB's and resin are so cheap, I might as well build a generator myself and check it out. I'd recommend to others to experiment with accumulators, though, because they will give demonstrable effects ( sometimes unpleasant ones, at that ).

by **glubglubglub** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 8:03 pm

Also agreed -- if someone thinks I'm dismissing things they're misunderstanding me...at a suitable time (soon) and place (also soon) I'll be building some orgonish stuff, once I think I at least have a grasp of what theory of what I'll be doing actually exists. The (many) quesions are both: a) the first things I'd be asking myself once I got something (presumably) working b) things I'd hope someone who's spent years working with and building these devices to have at least pondered, esp. if I'm to take their advice on anything more than a 'we built this and noticed that' level The last time I tried to get a feel for this I was struck that the people into it seemed like cargo cultists: they had a few devices that did perhaps seem to work, but no real clue what they were doing; the more obnoxious sorts would wave hands and make broad proclamations to try and cover up their lack of understanding. It's not a problem, really, to not fully understand what you're doing, but it can become one if you either deceive yourself into thinking you do or if you fail to distinguish between your knowledge and your guesses. Otherwise I'm basically in agreement with revelation; mary, any response to the q's on the prior page?

by **marykmusic** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 10:44 pm

I've been a little busy, though... These, I believe, are your questions: <blockquote>Quote:<hr>In the examples you gave of positive and negative orgone (the dinner party etc., the nuke plant etc.) is it the feeling associated with those settings/environments that is the orgone? Is the feeling merely indicative that the body (or the mind or both) somehow senses the presence of orgone (positive or negative)?<hr></blockquote> The feeling is a result of the actual energy involved, and it can be measured with a lot more technology than I have access to... but that's okay, as I am a bit energy-sensitive (and both my boys are a lot more so than I am.) Here's some confirmation: for those of you who live near a nuke plant, how many birds are nesting nearby, sitting on the wires of the fences surrounding them? Birds (like the "canary in the coalmine") are great indicators of types of energy. Most of them only live where the orgone (or whatever-you-want-to-call-it) is positive. "Cellphone" towers are another good example; it's been a while since we've had a problem with them, but there were never any birds nesting in, or perching on any of them until after they had been neutralized. We knew they were harmless when we found bird nests and other activity on the tower itself. The major exception is vultures; 'round here we have turkey buzzards. They are attracted to the negative energy of the dead and dying, and to towers. Don doesn't know why, either. Nor does Dragon. Neither do we know how cats purr, but we certainly get a warm fuzzy from them when they do. And we've learned which actions result in purring, and what gets us scratched. We prefer to repeat the former, without ever figuring out WHY it happens. Results are more important to us at this time. As far as DeMeo, who absolutely hates Don and never misses an opportunity to dis him, people need to read about what happens when he deploys his "cloudbuster": <a href="http://www.keelynet.com/ecology/cloudbst.htm" target="top">www.keelynet.com/ecology/cloudbst.htm</a> Dragon built and deployed 20 or so of the Croftian CB across southern Arizona, from Yuma on the Mexican/California border, to Clifton and Duncan in the southeast, and Globe from October 2001 to May 2002. The chemtrails ceased for a while, and never got into such intense daily action again. There were other positive side effects as well... after that, other devices (such as the HHG, Tower Busters and the self-protection device the Succor Punch) were being developed and used. By this time, others were deeply involved in their own versions of similar low-tech, such as <a href="http://www.hootenization.com/hooten_page_one_replay.html" target="top">Mark and Suze Hooten</a> Y'all can learn a lot from these folks. How do they work? Shoot, I don't really know, either. But a basic idea (predicated on the premise that crystals, especially quartz, have a sort of resident "spirit" or deva) change the organic/inorganic Reichian layering effect of his Cloudbuster, and bring it into an other-dimensional space. This is the transmutational zone... Other crystals each add their own energy signatures, and other types of additives (nobody uses only resin/metal/quartz anymore, although that's still the basic thing) are used for their specific effects. Sacred geometry is part of the whole process, also. Pyramid-shaped devices, specific measurements such as the sizes Dragon uses for his CB pipes, all kinds of different things are utilized. Playing classical music while the resin sets. Adding words, like Dr. Emoto with water. And, speaking of water, charged water of various sorts is also an effective additive. We favor water that has been charged in the first rays of the rising sun, but this is not the only way it can be done. Reich kept meticulous notes, it's true, but we've been posting on the Yahoo group, Cloudbusters, and those posts can still be found in the archives there... besides, almost all of Reich's notes were destroyed. Is anyone familiar with his work against UFO's? We've used our devices in all kinds of aggressive ways and have gotten some real-time results... but perhaps that's another thread. --MaryK

by **glubglubglub** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 11:26 pm

Thanks. the other questions: Does Don Croft know why his devices have the effects that they do? And, to the extent that the effects are composed of discernible subeffects, could he design modified versions of those devices to enhance some of those sub effects and turn down others? If, instead, he knows such fine-grained adjustment to be impossible, why is it impossible and how does he know it to be so? If, as you say, the DeMeo device simply accumulates negative orgone, why does it accumulate negative orgone (and not positive orgone or both)? Is it possible to design an accumulator of positive orgone? If so how does it differ from the DeMeo design, and what is it about those differences that causes the postive accumulator to behave so differently from the negative accumulator? Has any progress been made towards (re)developing the (reliable?) heat-producing device and/or acoomplishing similar things with orgone? If so, how is it going? What are the more recent developments along this line, and what are the major issues holding up development. If not, why not? Has it been tried and found not to work? Has the community's current (hopefully improved) understanding of orgone found a reason why such a project is unlikely to succeed?

by **dbeach** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 11:50 pm

<a href="http://educate-yourself.org/dc/spindex.shtml">educate-yourself.org/dc/spindex.shtml</a> MARY could ya give some more info about succor punch ? Is Adachi legit? at educate yourself. I read some negative stuff about him at a fringie site..but what else is new?

by **marykmusic** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 11:52 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Does Don Croft know why his devices have the effects that they do? And, to the extent that the effects are composed of discernible subeffects, could he design modified versions of those devices to enhance some of those sub effects and turn down others? If, instead, he knows such fine-grained adjustment to be impossible, why is it impossible and how does he know it to be so?<hr></blockquote> As I said, Don doesn't know why or how. You wanna ask him yourself? <blockquote>Quote:<hr>If, as you say, the DeMeo device simply accumulates negative orgone, why does it accumulate negative orgone (and not positive orgone or both)? Is it possible to design an accumulator of positive orgone? If so how does it differ from the DeMeo design, and what is it about those differences that causes the postive accumulator to behave so differently from the negative accumulator? <hr></blockquote> DeMeo is a Faithful Follower, not an innovator. He takes Reich's invention and uses it as-was. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Has any progress been made towards (re)developing the (reliable?) heat-producing device and/or acoomplishing similar things with orgone? If so, how is it going? What are the more recent developments along this line, and what are the major issues holding up development. If not, why not? Has it been tried and found not to work? Has the community's current (hopefully improved) understanding of orgone found a reason why such a project is unlikely to succeed? <hr></blockquote> No, we use what we know to do what we do, which is taking back the planet's atmosphere and as self-empowerment methods. So, it looks like the field is wide open. Go for it! --MaryK

Orgone and Wilhelm Reich

Re: 'Look, little man" - hell of a text

Orgone energy, positive and negative

tower buster

books and a documentary

Croft, et al

mary, I don't intend to flame, so forgive me if this is rude

holy hand grenades

Wonderful POR

skeptical

I agree

more on the orgone trail

Not rude.

the other qs:

Re: the other qs:

Re: the other qs:

Who is online