Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby stickdog99 » Sun May 19, 2013 12:04 am

justdrew wrote:well, he looks pretty damn guilty to this observer just based on what we do know. Now if you START at the assumption that EVERY cop, every member of 'the government' is lying about nearly everything, or that some elaborate Mission Impossible team staged all this theater, then... well... That sounds like epistemological surrender to me.


What evidence have you seen to convict the stoner kid? Anything other than Danny Boy's incredible yarn, what unnamed spooks say the stoner kid told them when he was being grilled on his deathbed, and the boat note the former FBI spokesperson just leaked convenient details about? Please share.

I've seen pictures of the kid in the vicinity of the bombing. And he had a single "pyrotechnic device" (read: legal firework) in his dorm room. That's it. Have you seen anything more that makes you think he's responsible?
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby justdrew » Sun May 19, 2013 12:08 am

stickdog99 wrote:
justdrew wrote:well, he looks pretty damn guilty to this observer just based on what we do know. Now if you START at the assumption that EVERY cop, every member of 'the government' is lying about nearly everything, or that some elaborate Mission Impossible team staged all this theater, then... well... That sounds like epistemological surrender to me.


What evidence have you seen to convict the stoner kid? Anything other than Danny Boy's incredible yarn, what unnamed spooks say the stoner kid told them when he was being grilled on his deathbed, and the boat note the former FBI spokesperson just leaked convenient details about? Please share.

I've seen pictures of the kid in the vicinity of the bombing. And he had a single "pyrotechnic device" (read: legal firework) in his dorm room. That's it. Have you seen anything more that makes you think he's responsible?


well, why was he all injured and hiding in the boat then?

and all the cops that laid eyes on him, trained and experienced at recognizing people, they're all lying? They pulled someone out of the boat who had nothing to do with anything? except he was driving around saw his picture on tv, then "danny boy" as you love to derogatorily call the man, I guess he forced them to take his SUV, or gave it to them.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby Iamwhomiam » Sun May 19, 2013 12:28 am

Stickdog, didn't his friends direct the police to his dumped backpack, filled with unwrapped fireworks?
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby compared2what? » Sun May 19, 2013 12:32 am

stickdog99 wrote:
justdrew wrote:well, he looks pretty damn guilty to this observer just based on what we do know. Now if you START at the assumption that EVERY cop, every member of 'the government' is lying about nearly everything, or that some elaborate Mission Impossible team staged all this theater, then... well... That sounds like epistemological surrender to me.


What evidence have you seen to convict the stoner kid? Anything other than Danny Boy's incredible yarn, what unnamed spooks say the stoner kid told them when he was being grilled on his deathbed, and the boat note the former FBI spokesperson just leaked convenient details about? Please share.

I've seen pictures of the kid in the vicinity of the bombing. And he had a single "pyrotechnic device" (read: legal firework) in his dorm room. That's it. Have you seen anything more that makes you think he's responsible?


You're a saint for returning to topic, and a better person than I am on that score too, credit where due.

We haven't seen all the evidence, though. Or can't know that we have, at least. So certain conclusions about it might be premature either way. All fake or all real as it may hypothetically be.

I don't personally find it incredible that two guys with nowhere to go who were being chased by cops would carjack someone, or talk the scariest trash they could to him, or that he'd try to escape, or that he'd succeed if they weren't hardened pros, or that he'd be Chinese, or that he'd be so anxious to avoid becoming an object of scrutiny to the media and the internet that he'd opt for anonymity, or that he necessarily wouldn't be accommodated in that regard, depending on how sympathetic the specifics of his wish for it were to the cops and other authorities.

Honestly. None of that sounds very fanciful to me. But I tend to be biased in favor of almost all non-official and non-powerful people in the picture when there's a judgment call of that kind to be made. To a fault. So maybe it's steering me wrong.

Anyway. Evidence: Maybe, maybe not, but. .

Not sure why them would be fighting words and hope they're not.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby Iamwhomiam » Sun May 19, 2013 12:50 am

I don't know. Personally, I'd hate to have to sit in judgment as a member of a jury hearing this case. Or any case, for that matter. Can you imagine what difficulties we'd be encountering if the fellow who was coincidentally car-jacked happened to work for the FBI?
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby compared2what? » Sun May 19, 2013 1:06 am

Iamwhomiam wrote:I don't know. Personally, I'd hate to have to sit in judgment as a member of a jury hearing this case. Or any case, for that matter. Can you imagine what difficulties we'd be encountering if the fellow who was coincidentally car-jacked happened to work for the FBI?


The anonymity potentially raises questions along those lines.

I guess I was thinking more "maybe connected to/influential wrt large sums of money being made by someone?" than "maybe a spook?" But it's one of those things where there aren't any bread crumbs to help you figure out what you're not considering. The unknown unknowns, I guess you might call them. I mean, he might actually be a stooge. Or he might actually be very sympathetic. Stranger things than both have happened. After all.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby Peachtree Pam » Sun May 19, 2013 3:58 am

Hope this has not been posted.

From Global Research:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/continued- ... ce/5335585


Continued Cover-up of Contacts of Boston Bombing Suspects with FBI and US Intelligence

In testimony before the US Senate Thursday, Federal Bureau of Investigation Director Robert Mueller continued the official cover-up of the advance warnings and extensive contacts between the FBI and other intelligence and security agencies and the suspects in the April 15 bombings at the Boston Marathon.

The detonation of two bombs in downtown Boston resulted in three deaths and the wounding of more than 160 runners and spectators. Tamerlan Tsarnaev, 26, was killed by police in a shootout four days after the bombings. His younger brother Dzhokhar is being held in a prison hospital in Massachusetts on charges of using a weapon of mass destruction.

The bombings were used as the pretext for an unprecedented police-military lockdown of Boston and its suburbs, in which civil liberties were effectively suspended and federal, state and local forces tested out techniques for dictatorial rule.

Mueller’s appearance before the Commerce, Justice, Science Subcommittee of the Senate Appropriations Committee did nothing to shed light on the staggering and unexplained failure of the FBI, the CIA and the Department of Homeland Security to alert local and state police in advance of the marathon, an event that attracts tens of thousands from around the world, of their contacts with Tamerlan Tsarnaev and his family and multiple reports of his terrorist sympathies.

One week before Mueller’s Senate appearance, the Boston police commissioner and a top Massachusetts Homeland Security official told the Homeland Security Committee of the US House of Representatives that the FBI never informed them that in 2011 it had conducted an investigation of the elder Tsarnaev brother for suspected jihadist sympathies, including the interrogation of Tsarnaev and his parents, after Russian authorities had warned the agency that Tsarnaev was a radical Islamist Chechen separatist. Nor did the FBI tell them that Tsarnaev had spent six months in Russia’s North Caucasus in 2012.

Boston Police Commissioner Edward Davis also told the House committee that an officer of US Customs and Border Protection, a unit of the US Department of Homeland Security, who served on the Joint Terrorism Task Force in Boston and had knowledge of Tamerlan Tsarnaev’s travels, did not inform any of the four Boston police officers assigned to the group.


Russian security officials also alerted the CIA about the elder Tsarnaev brother in November of 2011, and he was placed on at least two US terror watch lists. There are also reports that in November 2012, Russia gave the FBI a case file on Tsarnaev detailing his contacts with Islamist separatist militants during his stay in Dagestan, and that Saudi Arabian officials sent a report the same year to the Department of Homeland Security warning that Tamerlan Tsarnaev might be planning a terrorist attack.

At Thursday’s hearing of the Senate subcommittee, nominally called to discuss the FBI’s $8.4 billion 2013 budget request, Mueller offered no explanation for these ostensible security lapses, which recall those that occurred on his watch in connection with the events of September 11, 2001. Nor was there any desire on the part of committee members, Democratic or Republican, to press him.

In her opening statement, Chairwoman Barbara Mikulski (Democrat of Maryland) followed what has become the universal pattern of US politicians since the Boston bombings, hailing the lockdown of the city as a triumph of post-9/11 counterterrorism planning. “There were well-coordinated law enforcement resources—the police and the FBI—through the Joint Terrorism Task Force,” she said.

Gingerly raising what she called “investigatory gaps,” she echoed the official line that the failure to prevent the bombings was the result of Tamerlan Tsarnaev having “slipped through the cracks.” She further promoted the official story by suggesting that the two suspects were “lone wolf” terrorists, with no connections to outside groups. She then suggested that the FBI needed broader powers to track and interrogate suspects and more money to keep “ahead of the bad guys.”

She also announced that the morning hearing would recess at 11 AM and move to a classified session, “where we can talk more fully about Boston and other key national security threats like cybersecurity.”

Knowing he had nothing to fear from the committee, Mueller nonchalantly defended the FBI’s handling of the Tsarnaevs and its failure to alert state or local authorities. He declared, “As a result of this, I would say, thorough investigation, based on the leads we got from the Russians, we found no ties to terrorism.”

Beyond this bald and implausible assertion, Mueller descended into double-talk and outright gibberish. “To the extent that we go back and look and scrub and see what we could have done better,” he said, “this is an area where we’re looking at and scrubbing it and doing better.”

In his prepared remarks to the committee, the FBI director reiterated the official line of the Obama administration that the Boston bombing was the work of isolated terrorists with no ties to outside organizations. “It is increasingly likely,” he said, while offering no substantiation, “that the Boston attacks may prove to be the latest example of homegrown extremism.”

From the outset, the administration and the various intelligence and police agencies have promoted this line, evidently motivated by an eagerness to foreclose a serious investigation into the connection between the bombings, the Tsarnaevs and the domestic and foreign activities of the US government.

The official story—that the Tsarnaevs were “lone wolf” actors and the failures of US police and security agencies were merely the result of mistakes or inadvertence—is the least plausible of all explanations. It is far more likely that US intelligence agencies, including the FBI, were using, or planned to use, Tamerlan Tsarnaev to further their operations with Islamist separatist forces in Chechnya and Dagestan, with whom they have been working for years.

That the American state secretly maintains extensive relations with known or suspected terrorists was underscored on Thursday with the release of a public summary of a report by the Justice Department’s inspector general on the handling of terrorists enrolled in the government’s Witness Security Program. The report revealed that the US Marshals Service, a unit of the Justice Department that runs the witness protection program, has given scores of terrorists new identities over recent decades and shielded them from other state security agencies.

The report summary—the actual report remains classified and has not been shown to members of Congress—noted that the witness protection program did not turn over the new names of terrorist protectees to the FBI’s Terrorist Screening Center. As a result, individuals who had been tagged in the past for extra scrutiny at airports or placed on the no-fly list were allowed to fly on commercial flights.

The report also noted that witness protectees included people known or suspected by the government to have been terrorists trained in aviation and the making of explosives, and individuals who plotted bomb attacks or conspired to murder US officials.


Another development points to the intensive and sinister involvement of the FBI and CIA with anti-Russian terrorist elements in the Caucasus. Last Monday, Russian authorities announced that they had caught a CIA officer attempting to recruit a Russian intelligence agent who specializes in the region that includes Chechnya and Dagestan.


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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby stickdog99 » Sun May 19, 2013 3:49 pm

Iamwhomiam wrote:Stickdog, didn't his friends direct the police to his dumped backpack, filled with unwrapped fireworks?


Did they? Or are they being held on trumped up obstruction of justice charges in exchange for their testimony to this effect?
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby stickdog99 » Sun May 19, 2013 3:58 pm

justdrew wrote:
stickdog99 wrote:
justdrew wrote:well, he looks pretty damn guilty to this observer just based on what we do know. Now if you START at the assumption that EVERY cop, every member of 'the government' is lying about nearly everything, or that some elaborate Mission Impossible team staged all this theater, then... well... That sounds like epistemological surrender to me.


What evidence have you seen to convict the stoner kid? Anything other than Danny Boy's incredible yarn, what unnamed spooks say the stoner kid told them when he was being grilled on his deathbed, and the boat note the former FBI spokesperson just leaked convenient details about? Please share.

I've seen pictures of the kid in the vicinity of the bombing. And he had a single "pyrotechnic device" (read: legal firework) in his dorm room. That's it. Have you seen anything more that makes you think he's responsible?


well, why was he all injured and hiding in the boat then?

and all the cops that laid eyes on him, trained and experienced at recognizing people, they're all lying? They pulled someone out of the boat who had nothing to do with anything? except he was driving around saw his picture on tv, then "danny boy" as you love to derogatorily call the man, I guess he forced them to take his SUV, or gave it to them.


Let's suppose his brother was paid to make some bombs for a 4th of July drill and Dzhokhar was recruited to help dispose of them once his brother realized he was going to get framed for the Boston Marathon bombing, while Danny Boy played Judas.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby stickdog99 » Sun May 19, 2013 4:24 pm

compared2what? wrote:We haven't seen all the evidence, though. Or can't know that we have, at least. So certain conclusions about it might be premature either way. All fake or all real as it may hypothetically be.

I don't personally find it incredible that two guys with nowhere to go who were being chased by cops would carjack someone, or talk the scariest trash they could to him, or that he'd try to escape, or that he'd succeed if they weren't hardened pros, or that he'd be Chinese, or that he'd be so anxious to avoid becoming an object of scrutiny to the media and the internet that he'd opt for anonymity, or that he necessarily wouldn't be accommodated in that regard, depending on how sympathetic the specifics of his wish for it were to the cops and other authorities.

Honestly. None of that sounds very fanciful to me. But I tend to be biased in favor of almost all non-official and non-powerful people in the picture when there's a judgment call of that kind to be made. To a fault. So maybe it's steering me wrong.

Anyway. Evidence: Maybe, maybe not, but. .

Not sure why them would be fighting words and hope they're not.


Where is the ballistic evidence that connects the brothers to the cop's shooting or to the circular firing squad the cops had with one another? The brothers had just one gun between them, so this shouldn't be too hard. Where is the fingerprint evidence of the stoner kid on the steering wheel of the Mercedes SUV or on the handles of the exploded or unexploded bombs? Where is the autopsy evidence that his older brother fired his weapon dozens of times? Where and with what funds did his older brother purchase his gun and scores of rounds of ammo?

Where/how/with whose help did the brothers make the 7+ bombs they had? How did they detonate these bombs at the Boston Marathon? Did the bombs that were exploded/confiscated in the shootout match those exploded at the finish line? Was the explosive material in all these bombs made from readily available fireworks? If so, where, by whom and with what funds were the rest of these fireworks purchased? Where, by whom and with what funds were all the pressure cookers purchased? And why keep one of the fireworks in your dorm room?

Note that all of these brothers' email, text and phone communications and every credit card purchase and bank transaction since sometime around 9/11/01 are now property of the FBI and prosecuting team. Does any of this evidence point to their guilt? If so, why hasn't any of it been leaked?

The only "evidence" that been leaked to this point is Danny's anonymous tale, prosecutor-friendly telephone line translations of what the kid supposedly wrote out for the elite terrorist interrogation team while he was unable to talk in critical condition, and prosecutor-friendly telephone line translations of what the kid supposedly wrote out on the boat where he hid unarmed until the police arrested him in a one way firefight. Not a single piece of this "evidence" has come from any named, on the record source.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby stickdog99 » Sun May 19, 2013 4:30 pm

justdrew wrote:well, he looks pretty damn guilty to this observer just based on what we do know. Now if you START at the assumption that EVERY cop, every member of 'the government' is lying about nearly everything, or that some elaborate Mission Impossible team staged all this theater, then... well... That sounds like epistemological surrender to me.


Why is it that it takes just one person to frame you for a crime you did not commit if he is not an agent of the government, while every damn one of them has to be in on it if he is?
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby Iamwhomiam » Sun May 19, 2013 4:32 pm

I don't know, stickdog. Answering one's questions with questions really doesn't help, especially because we don't know if any of the characters really exist, do we? I'm just repeating what was earlier reported and posted here, pointing it out for you in case you missed it.

Honestly, they don't need dupes to blame. If the point was to raise the fear level to further erode the value of our constitution, having no one to blame would be more effective. And scarier.

We're all making assumptions based upon media reporting, but what we're ignoring or so it seems, is the players tie-in to the oil industry.

Seems we've forgotten the Chechen-Afghani pipeline we've been protecting with our armed forces over the past decade while it was being built.

I can't discount the possibility of this as being anything more than payback for some powerful Chechens who either didn't play ball with the Big (oil) Boys, withheld or screwed with their portion of the pay-off, or had the nerve to ask for just a bit more.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby stickdog99 » Sun May 19, 2013 4:50 pm

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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby justdrew » Sun May 19, 2013 5:55 pm

you know, I agree stickdog that there may indeed be a chance they are not guilty, but in the end we have no way to know, much evidence will hopefully come out in trial. If it was a setup well probably never know that for sure.

I don't see this event really changing anything Geo-politically, EXCEPT maybe it down-regulates US support for Chechen terrorists/nationalism, which I think is a good thing.

Nationally, I don't see any major changes in policy because of this, doesn't seem to me to advance any agenda, except the terror-scare politics specialized in by the Republican Party.

So I don't really see a motive for framing them, except the possibility that they have NO IDEA who really did the bombs and they felt it essential to bust somebody.

As for the terror-stings?

Well, some of them are more sketchy than others. I think if suspicion is raised about a person, and law enforcement can get an agent in to provide a fake bomb, and the fucker pulls that trigger? Prison is entirely justified. Anyone willing to pull that trigger, they they BELIEVE IS REAL and therefor absolutely has demonstrated willingness to kill with a bomb, needs some rehabilitation time, aka prison. It would be wrong if they fed him a ton of "radicalizing information" and changed the person, but if all they do is provide an opportunity for them to show themselves as the willing and able bomber, fine. It's even a fairly good tool. Any of the people busted in such a sting could have gotten out of it no problem by just reporting the bomb-providers to the police, which I think, is the right thing to do, and I do think there's a real chance that someone willing to pull that fake trigger, would very possibly go on to build their own.

Now selecting who to run this op against is tricky, but resources are limited and I'm fairly sure it's limited to people who really do or say things repeatedly to draw attention.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby stickdog99 » Sun May 19, 2013 6:03 pm

Yep, just as long as they are Muslim.
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