Coppens on "The Nine"

by **Attack Ships on Fire** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 4:57 pm

Some thoughts on the bio-UFOs subject... I first remember seeing some UFO show back in the late 70s that touched a bit on this angle. There were some photos of UFO-like blobs hanging around electrical relays and poles, and the suggestion was being made that the UFOs were biological beings that were using our electricity grid to feed. This area of discussion about UFOs has been practically non-existant ever since, and the UFOs as vehicles piloted by aliens theory has been at the forefront ever since. Personally, I'm about 70% convinced that UFOs are vehicles of some type; radar reports, photos, film and then there are the eyewitness reports of them (which I'm sure some are legit and others are bogus) seem to back this theory up. That doesn't eliminate the ultraterrestrial theory or that the UFOnauts are using/relying on different modes of consciousness/reality, but somewhere in the truth of the phenomena I think there's a vehicle/occupant answer. As to whether some UFOs are bioforms, I believe there simply isn't enough documented evidence to back up this theory. I can't eliminate the possibility of it entirely, as the whole nature of the UFO phenomena is still under debate and scrutiny, but there just isn't enough proof backing this theory up. I remember looking at the rods phenomena back in the 90s and wondering if people were indeed filming a new form of atmospheric life that our human senses couldn't detect, but I've also seen good evidence that rods are merely insects distorted by their rapid movement and the camera's f-stop into looking like bizarre, alien forms of life. The bio-UFOs may or may not be something along this line of thought, but I haven't seen nearly enough photo evidence to make a judgement one way or the other.

by **Dreams End** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:15 pm

LP what's your take on the catchphrase on the 11:11 site: "11:11 is the trigger." This bothered me. I guess all of us have had "11:11" experiences because when you look at a clock and it says 2:47, it's just not going to stand out. but that same ex I talked about seemed pretty focused on 11:11 and this was back in 1989. Could it LITERALLY be a trigger, you think? I'm very interested in your take on these things...you seem several steps ahead of me and you've learned it through experience, not the bits of surfing I do that I have to let pass for "research." I can't find this account of a particular woman, now hooked up with one of the RV sites who had this really long account of two years of being in very bizarre state. She would fall asleep compulsively when she'd get around a certain chair in her house and then proceed to have every abduction type experience anyone has ever reported...alien abductions, secret schools, conversations with gods, a satanic ritual...etc. Each one compellingly written in detail, but all this from one person? She was also on an online chat room and eventually came to interpret, with some "help" of her anonymous chat friends, that this was all somehow pointing to following the teachings of Alexander Crowley. She left LA and the experiences stopped. I had the impression that the writing was exceptionally sincere, whatever the actual reality of what she experienced. In other words, I don't think she was making it up. My first impulse was that she was just a particularly good MC subject and they were throwing the book at her, so to speak. I wish I could find it...it was linked here once but that was probably a year ago. I googled "extraordinary human experience" because I thought she'd ended up posting this account on a website about that sort of thing and there was an institute, but now, if ehe.org is the same site, there's no mention. One experience was particularly interesting...she "woke up" while having an alien abduction experience...that is, she came out of her trancelike state and started looking around while everyone else was just sort of moving along some sort of conveyor belt in a daze. Eventually they brought her back under. I also tracked her as a member of one of the RV groups and in a discussion board she lamented not spending enough time doing the RV exercises. I really hope someone knows who I'm talking about and has the link. I should have saved it. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/eyes.gif ALT=":rolleyes">

by **LilyPatToo** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:19 pm

Dreams End, first the latter question about that woman--wonderful writer, honest, very intelligent--might it have been PJ Gaenir? I have her "Bewilderness" online book bookmarked: <a href="http://www.firedocs.com/bewilderness/index.cfm">www.firedocs.com/bewilderness/index.cfm</a> Back when I first stumbled across it, I was still swallowed up by the alien abduction disinfo, but her writing was SO clear-headed that it impelled me to take a similar "outside the box" view of my own paranormal history. And that was all it took to give me that vital first glimpse outside the UFO/alien abduction ghetto I'd spent so many years inside, manipulated and programmed incessantly. Of all the weird coincidences, I've since met online a very well-informed and articulate Canadian MC survivor who knew her way back when she had that bizarre break with reality. And he's pretty certain that she was in a program then, based on his own experience and on his current understanding of that whole era's disinfo meme guinea pigs. Now for the 11:11 thing...I've experienced it on a level that pretty much excludes just selective attention (ie. it stands out and other times are forgotten). And it comes in waves, too, which usually include non-clock-connected incidents like running an errand that takes me to a business with an 1111 street address or hearing a person walk by talking on their cell phone and repeating the number 11 over and over, as if the other person can't hear them clearly. And on and on, ad nauseum. And, interestingly, the other guinea pigs at that UFO site also experience 11:11 synchronicity waves at the same time that I do...THAT bothers me. Do I then descend into Paranoia Land with them as they frantically discuss it on (sometimes multiple) threads on the message board? It doesn't seem to matter what I do--the waves crest and subside and everyone goes back to Woo Woo Land and talks about other cool things, even if I ask lots of reality-based questions and strain my brain trying to figure out what it means and how the heck it's done. Doesn't matter at all, so I've come to accept that someone is interested in sparking these little outbreaks of paranoia, for reasons of their own, and that the synchronicity around them scares the daylights out of me. What I do NOT want to think about is the suggestion that whoever is messing with the abductees has the ability to muck with synchronicity. LilyPat PS And I'm only 2 years into figuring this stuff out, so I'm no expert. Any and all assistance is gratefully accepted.

by **Dreams End** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:27 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>first the latter question about that woman--wonderful writer, honest, very intelligent--might it have been PJ Gaenir? <hr></blockquote> the very one. Do you remember how members of some bb or discussion board guided her (along with dreams) to Crowley? The only part of that whole bizarre tale that rang false with me was the Crowley stuff. Too much "gee whiz, what do you know...Crowley said something like that..." (don't remember specifics.) She was in LA when this was happening, so maybe the guy you knew was also in LA at that time? I was in LA from about '89 to '97 with living with a woman who had the dad in British intel and who now strikes me as a Candy Jones type...though she didn't actually do anything unusual while I was with her (i.e. I always knew where she was, etc). But her past...her great beauty, travels in the mideast and europe, consorting with Italian princes...etc plus her clear background of abuse (which she never talked much about) made me wonder. So any specifics on the program that fellow was involved in or that Gaenir may have been victimized by?

by **havanagilla** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:34 pm

1991-1993 I was living ("the living dead") in LA, heavily bombarded...at some point it might be interesting to bring up names/places... roughly - one very bad guy - was working in JPL. other mostly from my nation, namely, either jews/israeli which you probably wouldnt' know much about. DE, where did you live (roughly ?). on edit - LA, one place I don't want to EVER revisit, even in my memories... Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=havanagilla>havanagilla</A> at: 7/8/06 4:36 pm

by **Dreams End** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:49 pm

When I lived with this woman it was in Hollywood. I am ashamed to say I don' t know much about her life before me. She had lived with a little french guy...and continued living with him even after he brought his new girlfriend to live with him. They had only just broken up when we met, I think as they still shared "custody" of their dogs. Actually, Hava, as a leftist, if you "did" political action in LA, then odds are, we have been in the same place at the same time, whether we've ever actually met or not. But who knows?

by **LilyPatToo** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:52 pm

Dreams End, my Canadian friend was moderating an early online forum then where she hung out, I believe. He was also friends with her ex, IIRC. Not sure if he lived in LA then or not. The program that he was in was an early one and, like the one I was simultaneously in in the US (we're the same age), it included lots of paranormal stuff. I don't think he believed she was in the same one, but in what may have been a later version. havanagilla, SoCal is thick with MC ops centers. The guy who bought me in that restaurant ended up living there for many years, in Woodland Hills, where Sue Ford ("Brice Taylor") and a couple of other ritually abused MC survivors I've since met online also lived. It was in Redondo Beach that that victim/handler we knew was living when the Satanic cult was abusing her little daughter. And my aunt, who may have been involved in MC stuff also lived there for many years during the 1950's through the 70's--boy, do I wish I could get HER to reminisce! I used to go to a lot of science fiction conventions there during that era, back when I was hanging out with famous writers and a lot of people from JPL chatted me up and tried to get close to me. Ditto with the top Scientology people who live in and around LA. Creeped me out. Glad I'm out of that crowd. I think, in retrospect, that some of them knew exactly what I was. LilyPat

by **Dreams End** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:49 pm

lily, I don't know if you know this but you can receive private messages on this board. When you are on the main board it will tell you whether or not you have any messages in the top right corner. And right now, you do. Cheers.

by **havanagilla** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 8:16 pm

<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/frown.gif ALT=":("> I am very sad now, sniff, and need time out. see you next week. its heavy on the heart for me.

by **LilyPatToo** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 8:35 pm

havanagilla, take care of yourself--you're definitely not alone in this. I wish we survivors of the trauma-based programs had a board of our own, but every single MC board that I've ever found was completely "wavie" oriented. (please note: I don't use that term in ANY pejorative sense at all--there just doesn't seem to be any better shorthand way of describing electronic MC's victims) I've tried over the past 2 years to create and maintain threads on the older programs on those boards, but mostly I've now let them die. There just are so few of us out there and we're so scattered that it seems like an exercise in futility to be the only one posting to them most of the time. When I feel blue, I tend to go for a long walk, myself. That generates lots of endorphins and I can usually drag myself up out of The Pit again. But since I've been accessed and subjected to street theater on walks, I now keep a small camera in my hand as a minor deterrent. Doesn't always work, but the incidence of interference has dropped since I've been doing it. And you realize that you're always welcome to PM/email me, right? Dreams End, thank you for that reminder about the PM box here on ezboards--the type is SO teeny that my aging eyes miss it entirely against the grayish background. And I forget to check periodically, too. Back when the main MC board was here, I was habituated to do that daily, but now...<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/embarassed.gif ALT=":o"> LilyPat

by **Joe Hillshoist** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 9:56 pm

DE Peter Carrols books about chaos magic, Liber Null and Psychonaut, refer to Catastrophe theory. He constructs a series of processes based on the topography of chaos theory, designed to map sudden non continuous changes. He applies this to an individuals world view in his book, but it easy to see the same process being applied to population groups as well as individuals. Eg <blockquote>Quote:<hr>A further phenomonen can be shown on the catastrophe surface - that of bifurcation or splitting as shown in fig5. This figure shows the descent into irrationality produces 2 possibilities for strong belief which are very unstable for emotional commitment. This technique has its uses in magic.<hr></blockquote> LIber Null and Psychonaut p210, (Weiser 87 ed) <blockquote>Quote:<hr>This theory suggests that the model they use is that a small number of people whose beliefs have been manipulated in some way can have "catastrophic" effects on a social system...can create sudden, lasting and dramatic social changes.<hr></blockquote> Carrols refs are to individual processes, but think about this. What happened to Neil Young after 911? It seems a catastrophe is a sudden non linear event injected into a system (by existance not necessarily any deliberate inteference) that cause major cognitive dissonance regarding the previously held world views. Now here's where I get a bit speculative and possibly way off. Chaos maths deals with mapping dynamic systems that involve situations where small changes in intial starting conditions can have serious long term differences in the final result. This is within the range of the attractor that dominates the equation used to do the mapping. Catastrophe theory seems to be aimed at inducing changes that lead to a new series of equations dominated by a different atttractor. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>I think this may point to an answer. The idea is not to go out in a linear fashion and "convert" people, the idea is to put out ideas that can become "attractors". They are thinking about how to create "catastrophic" change deliberately. Remember, "catastrophic" here is a math term....<hr></blockquote> The idea also involves the concept that catastrophe is a non mappable event that introduces enough new information or noise into the system. What follows is determined by the manipulation of factors that effect the attractor. these have nothingto do with the chaotic event itself. In that context its not the event that matters, but the ability to seed the conditions around which the event takes place. Strange attractors don't pose limits that are uncrossable, they instead create a limiting template that attracts the results back to within the range that the attractor produces. So events outside the scope of the attractor are quite possible, but they are unlikely to maintain themselves. So in that context a catastrophic event like the WTC event nearly 5 years ago can be used to introduce changes that may not have actually taken without the effects of that catastrophe. I dunno - I think I am talking around in circles and not saying anything additional or useful so I'll get back to this if I suddenly start thinking something useful..

by **Dreams End** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 2:46 am

Just a bit more, here. I notice in the intro to Brown's book that he says his wife is a Transcendental Meditation teacher. I assume, therefore, he is also in TM. TM seems to be a cornerstone of this alien disinfo. Stephen Greer of the disclosure project is TM and their legal counsel is, or was, Danny Sheehan (former Christic institute founder and now also legal counsel or on the board of Disclosure project.) I don't know much about TM...except that it also stand for "Take your Money." However, you have a trainer who induces you into trance states and then...... Brown learned his remote viewing from someone in the military he wouldn't name due to "classified status." I think TM may be one of the little "seed factories" for getting this stuff out there and also "programming" true believers. I think civilian RV programs are probably the same thing...and we find them linked in Brown...a TM guy writing books about aliens on earth (as does Greer, for that matter) who ALSO promotes the RV stuff and will provide trainers for you. I also wonder about the Robert Monroe folks. I'm not concerned with people promoting technology to induce altered states UNLESS you are encouraged or required to go through rigorous "training programs". Who else is tied into TM...what are their parapolitical connections (besides the Beatles, of course.) I believe that the Natural Law party was backing Dennis Kucinich for Dem nominee for President and I know that Sheehan was on his campaign. I think continued research will allow us to expand this little circle outward to a little "attractor factory"....creating the myths and programming the believers all at the same time. All in the name of bringing on the "catastrophe". Gimme the goods on TM. Extra points for sharing your mantra.

by **Avalon** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 2:58 pm

Is the "catastrophe" notion as you discuss it here one that is value neutral in terms of being positive or negative? I'd been thinking earlier today of a couple of events that had happened when I was younger, both of them marking points where it was so clear in retrospect that a profound shift in my life had stemmed from that moment. It was not something I saw clearly at the time, nor would those with me have seen anything untoward to alert them, but these were occasions which marked "before" and "after" states for me, when life as I knew it changed forever. They were maybe only of 5 minutes duration each, but brought with them a connectedness and deepening of values that has enriched my life in a very positive manner. Or is it always something that needs to tear down previous structures in a negative way before building them up differently? DE, that's the first time I recall seeing anyone bring in TM as a factor. Worth looking into. I have one relative who found it useful (he only went throught the most basic program), but then again he might perhaps have done as well using the "Relaxation Response" type of practice. I certainly don't care for the cult of personality that developed, and I have concerns about spirituality paths that develop into big business.

by **Dreams End** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 5:42 pm

"catastrophe" I think is a morally neutral term in the way Brown uses it. In fact, much of his writing is about abstract mathematical models. Meditation in general is helpful, without a doubt. But if elements of the TM movement are getting hold of people form more "intense" training, then there could be some cultishness. I saw one web page of a former trainer who believed it was so. To have a meditation group sponsor a political party (they deny the Natural Law Party is directly related...but...well, you know...) is a little strange. Also to have them involved in pushing the alien theme. AND the connection to RV, which, of course, originally involved some prominent scientologists....so now we have TM,RV groups and Scientology sort of hooked into this. We know Scientology believes in aliens as it's central to their philosophy of why we are all so f&*^ed up. However, they do not overtly address issues of aliens on earth now that I've ever seen. Unless you count War of the Worlds with Tom Cruise. Which was about...ummm....Martians invading the earth. Sort of like Brown is talking about. Luckily, in that movie some kind of flu killed the aliens. I think it was spread by birds. God..I should probably take a break!

by **LilyPatToo** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 6:32 pm

I've noticed that most of the control-focused pseudo-religions feature catastrophes and salvation for the "in group" who believed the "prophet" and heeded their warnings. It's like a signature that now sticks out like a thumb to me, though it didn't until recently. Right now, I'm seeing a ton of it in the UFO/alien abductee community. A few of them are questioning all the visions of catastophes that the various "aliens" have shown them that didn't materialize, but over all, human history shows that the failures are quickly forgotten. But the fear remains. And fear is essential to controlling large masses of people. It didn't occur to me until just yesterday that the man who taught me to meditate was very likely complicit in whatever MC program I was being exploited by in my 20's. He was an *investment banker*, fer chrissakes, but he always had time to come over to my house and guide me through meditations--! As dissociative as I am, he could have had me hypnotized without even trying. I was so stupid when I was young. And that makes me afraid that down the road, I'll see that I was still stupid now.... And I'm totally bummed to hear that Dennis Kucinich was backed by the TM. He was so 'outside the system' to me and espoused so many of my own values that I was a huge supporter of his during the primaries, even though I knew he could never win. LilyPat

Coppens on "The Nine"

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