Quantum Physics in Action

by **4911** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 3:49 am

Joe...you mean...Im not an asshole? <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)">

by **Joe Hillshoist** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:04 am

I talk through my arse heaps. But i'm not an arsehole either. (cept about spelingg) <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">

by **4911** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:08 am

i took responsibility for the pain, and it went away. That and Neuro Linguistic Programming helped my white ass heal.

by **4911** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:37 am

Incidentally, what are some other ways to help victims of abuse heal? CAN someone even actively help someone else heal? I would really appreciate some links. Or information. Obviously, the issue of taking responsibility is a sensitive one, and its likely that it gets taken as an affront to some who are very hurt and not ready to go there yet. You cant push healing on people. I pushed it on myself and it worked but thats a lot different because I can regulate how far Im ready to go at a time. I dont think I really understood or knew that. So actually I appreciate DE and blanc telling me to go fuck myself, taught me something. What are some different ways? I mean beyond giving the person love. Im talking about active strategies for healing a loved one. Based on truth. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=4911>4911</A> at: 7/3/06 3:17 am

by **Joe Hillshoist** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 5:37 am

I have posted a bit on that subject on some of the threads in here. i'll try and find em. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>I mean beyond giving the person love. Im talking about active strategies for healing a loved one. Based on truth. <hr></blockquote> Love and support. But if you think about it, what worked for you. How did you finally come to that decision? And how do you think you could put your loved one's in that situation, or a gentler, or just a more appropriate version to their circumstances. You have to know your loved one very well, have their complete trust, and really back yourself. But at the same time you have to be sure you are not ego tripping and making it worse. thats a lot of no help I am sure. I think the most important thing is giving the people you love the desire to heal. I dunno how you do that it just happens I spose. But bringing joy into their life, and making them fell special for just being themselves is good start. I suppose they need to have a comfortable space in themselves to build from. Somewhere safe, mentally. Prroviding that would be important. If you are male and your partner female, its important to underestate the ability to be violent to protect yor loved ones. Violence has caused these people pain, and they react to the concept of violence, not that it is being done for good or bad, that its being done is enough to reinforce the trauma. Sure the ability to protect your loved ones, and the fact that would die for them is important, but they need you there to live for them, so that should be the aim. A safe caring community, and being part of it helped more than anything else in this regard, in the cases I know about. Anyway thats all my own opinion based on my experience. It doesn't really give you much to go on i am sorry. I am not an exspurt on this by the smallest fraction of a long shot, but there have been some successes in my life. Spectacular failures too. >>But if you think about it, what worked for you. How did you finally come to that decision? And how do you think you could put your loved one's in that situation, or a gentler, or just a more appropriate version to their circumstances. You have to know your loved one very well, have their complete trust, and really back yourself. But at the same time you have to be sure you are not ego tripping and making it worse. thats a lot of no help I am sure.<< I guess thats it. It is not for nothing that in the old days healing oneself was a sign of a potential shaman. you have to know from the inside, perhaps not the exact same circumstances, but close enough that you can trust your empathy. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>I dont think I really understood or knew that. So actually I appreciate DE and blanc telling me to go fuck myself, taught me something.<hr></blockquote> I dunno what else to say but you seem to be making a good start. I might get to some actual techniques at some point. But they are probably less relevant than the understanding you bring.

by **blanc** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:33 am

blaming victims, or asking them to blame themselves is nauseous however it is framed. Its a different statement to make, that victims should in certain circumstances, wherever possible, take some charge of their own healing. If that's what you meant 4911, ok, pity you didn't say that right off. Indirectly Joe, you've probably highlighted the basis for the blame the victim frame of mind - people get so self protective, they become scared of being taken for a sucker by a false victim story, or used as a supporter for someone who doesn't really need it. DE and I, though we have little else in common I suspect, are close to people who right now in and in the immediate past, have needed support. Some of your statements 4911 came close enough to vomit to the statements particularly vile criminals have made to justify their acts. That touches a raw nerve. I wish you well in the healing process. good luck.

by **Joe Hillshoist** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:07 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Its a different statement to make, that victims should in certain circumstances, wherever possible, take some charge of their own healing.<hr></blockquote> What do you mean by "some". Anything else is going to reinforce the same memes that have been breeding in a persons brain. If that person has suffered abuse, the worst aspect is the lack of their own will. The taking of their will from them. Bad enough what happened, but powerlessness on top of that? The fact that in those situations your power is taken from you is the most traumatic event IMO. Physical pain is just pain, it doesn't really hurt, unless you do some serious, serious damage. And even then, IMO its worse when you are healing. But psychic pain is a terrible thing and it hurts people so bad that they resort to cutting themselves and the like to gain some control of their emotional state. Qualifying someone's charge in their healing process is crap. IMO As a person with a significant relationship the only time you should be remotely controlling of your charge's state of mind is when you do the anger thing that I think 4911 did to themselves. That is a can of worms in itself but has a place. Its not about blaming the victim, but saying: "Come on get your shit together, you are past this now and don't need it, and neither do I." when someone's at this point, they are nearly there, and maybe just need a little bit of help. A metaphorical kick up the arse. Always in the context of "You are better than this AND YOU KNOW IT. Stop F***ing around." (but always make yur peace before going further. "Never go to bed angry".) The real hard work is in helping people remember that they truly are better than that. I think that is the point where not blaming them is so important. Blame at that point stops people remembbering who they are and what they can really do.

by **4911** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:05 am

I believe I heard the victim must take responsibility for his victimization in order to begin healing from a Wayne Dyer mp3. I was desperate to heal myself at the time and tried it, mixed in with some visualisation techniques from an NLP mp3. It worked for me. I think he approached the subject differently. Thats what it boiled down to for me, thats what I wrote here in a nutshell. He cited an example, told the story of a woman who had been tricked to pull off the freeway driving her kids home after school one day. She pulled over to help someone with some car troubles when she was KOd and pushed into a van, then raped in a hotelroom for days and then left there. She made it out alive and she took full responsibility for the occurance, crazy as it sounds. SHE SAID that enabled her to heal within a few months. She told him that story, he told me, I told you. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=4911>4911</A> at: 7/3/06 6:25 am

by **Joe Hillshoist** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:36 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> She made it out alive and she took full responsibility for the occurance, crazy as it sounds. <hr></blockquote> Seems to me she took responsiblity for her actions, but not for the hid/neous actions of her attacker(s). I guess one difficulty with this is saying "you put yourself in that situation" somehow nullifies the actual crime that took place. But its important for victims of crime to take responnsibiltiy for putting themselves in that situation. How that applies to an abused child is something that i don't see. Children don't have that control of their life and responsibility by definition.

by **4911** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:39 am

And by the way saying "the victim must take responsibility in order to heal" is not the same as saying "I blame the victims for their weakness" by several million miles So thanks for trying to manipulate that around but no thanks. I aint having it. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=4911>4911</A> at: 7/3/06 6:43 am

by **4911** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:45 am

"...but not for the actions of her attacker(s)" EXACTLY. THANK YOU. And people who abuse children deserve to be locked in a room with someone or several someones who will abuse them in exactly the same way, only magnified - make it double or triple the amount to account for the varying degrees of innocence & personal stability between adults and children. Humiliate those sub-human molesting fucks down to the dead center cores of their souls. They might not think its so fun then. Either that or build a machine thatll do the job. They go in as molestors on one end, come out with an ass&mind full of a fraction of what they did to someone on the other. Since it cant be quantified realistically, the fraction should be something that will haunt them the rest of their lives. Ok. Now Im done. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=4911>4911</A> at: 7/3/06 7:20 am

by **Joe Hillshoist** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:26 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>And by the way saying "the victim must take responsibility in order to heal" is not the same as saying "I blame the victims for their weakness" by several million miles So thanks for trying to manipulate that around but no thanks. I aint having it. <hr></blockquote> I hope you don't think I was saying that, far from it.

by **Dreams End** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:43 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>And by the way saying "the victim must take responsibility in order to heal" is not the same as saying "I blame the victims for their weakness" by several million miles<hr></blockquote> Really? Which one is this? <blockquote>Quote:<hr>You know there used to be alot of episodes where some nut walked into a mcdonalds and shot everyone in the place & then himself. Im not sure, but I cant guarantee that everyone in the McDonalds joint wasnt completely fed up with their lives on some deep level and just asking for a death they couldnt be blamed for.<hr></blockquote>

by **blanc** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:37 am

Joe, I don't know where to start. I used some in that sentence because there are times when some victims cannot take any or some of the responsibility for their own healing. If you don't know what those times are, much has been posted on trauma here and many resources exist to explain its workings. Repeated serious trauma can and does damage the brain's functioning, saying the victim when in a seriously ill state should take all responsibility for themselves is like telling a man with a c3 spinal lesion he should buck up and walk. 4911, your first propositions, sample requoted just above this by DE were ludicrous. You seemed to be saying victims are responsible for their own victimisation. crap. then when I answered that, you pulled the victim card - the thing you say victims should not do, and seemed to be saying something different. Now we are back to your first idea again. This is too confused for me to sort out in the time I've got available, but my position remains, victims are not responsible for being victimised and should not be made to feel they are. They should when they can, take responsibility in whatever measure they can at the time manage, for their own healing. Part of the suffering imposed on ra victims is the 'you want this' rubbish, the 'this is your choice' nonsense and related crazy making enforcement. As apparently you align yourself with this - approve of it, there is no point in discussing it further with you. I'm sorry this thread has got off quantum physics - there seemed to be interesting stuff there and I was looking forward to anyone with more knowledge of the subject and a flair for making it comprehensible chipping in.

by **Joe Hillshoist** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:47 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>If you really want to make a change in the Universe, use the basis of quantum physics and be responsible for your own thought output. We are all the makers of our present reality - all that you have thought in the past is now manifesting in your life - so says the Buddha.<hr></blockquote> This thread is degenerating into a slanging match. It raises some pretty hard questions. Its funny being away from the media for a few days where I live. Apart from a slight regularity to the cloud forms east, over the Gold Coast (EM city), most of the time all seems well with the world. not perfect, but good enough. Cept the weather patterns are definitely changing... But not that much. Apart from that this place is paradise. In the middle of winter, its still 20 C during the day and above 0 at night. then you see the media... Years ago I lived in Melbourne and my brother lived in the bush. Every time he'd visit, one or two days of TV had him so paranoid he was out into the bush to hide from WW3. It was only after he spent a week in town that he realised this was the usual media thing and remembered what life was like before he went bush. That it was always like this, in the media.

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