by proldic » Tue Jul 26, 2005 3:16 pm
From Wikipedia:<br>“I was born in Tallinn, Estonia, during the middle of World War II. In 1944, as the Russian army approached Tallinn, my family escaped to Germany. We lived in a displaced persons' camps for five years. When I was seven we immigrated to Australia where I received my education, graduating with a B.Sc. in pure and applied mathematics. My first job was with the Australian Defense Department where I played computer-simulated war games in the Pacific Ocean. At age 23 I headed for Europe, but my boat stopped in Yokohama for two days. I fell in love with Japan and was unable to get back on the boat. During the '60s I ran a market research company in Tokyo and made enough money to travel around the world for three years. Then I returned to Japan, married Masako Tominaga and we immigrated to Canada. I started a documentary film making company. Over the next 15 years, my documentaries were broadcast on PBS, CBC and around the world, winning over 15 international awards."<br><br>Listen, what did it for me was hearing him relentlessly bash the history of union struggle in the US for 45 minutes on KPFK as irrelevant to the struggle. Plus that’s a spook background to me…<br>The article was black dots, except for asterixes in front of the more hard-core neocons such as Daniel Pipes. Apparently in the same issue there was an article featuring the names and photos of Jews in the left, under a headline excoriating the left for not fighting the neocons. Maybe you don’t know about/think relevant the historical context of listing Jews in this way, stars or not, just on a basic propaganda level. Interesting that you reflexively assume a smear against him because of the age. Lack of historical knowledge. You say no big deal that he is 2nd-gen, and grew up in the DP camps. <br>“Being in a resettlement camp is nothing unusual in of itself. These people were classified as DP's Displaced Persons.”<br>Oh YES IT IS unusual in itself. But that’s just one of those distinct (and I‘m beginning to believe immutable) points of disagreement about what is “historical truth” that hold us back from agreement, and hence united action in the here-and-now. Of course, they weren’t being told by their fathers that all their misfortunes were the result of the Jewish Bolshevik conspiracy. Of course, those camps weren’t full of fascists, run by fascists, and awash in fascist ideology. Of course, McCloy and Dulles weren’t Nazis themselves. <br>You would ignore my accounting of a wealth of proudly racist first-hand accounts and undisputed historical records from all sides of the conflict , and obvious human psychology, that proves that would be true. My facts say you’d be hard-pressed to find a 2nd, or even 3rd gen Estonian (or a Croatian for that matter) who wasn’t at least inclined to sympathize with fascism, or be filled with covert and often quite open racism against Jews. And you could spit at two of them and be sure to hit someone whose father or grandfather committed the unspeakable atrocities that occurred there. Pogroms that the rest of Europe had stopped a century before. And they really took to it with a special zeal, too.<br>“Maybe more important is the US classification that caused the deaths of surrendered German soldiers detailed in the book "Other Losses" "Disarmed Enemy Soldiers" which was needed to avoid having to treat them like POW's. It's reminiscent of today’s classification of "Enemy Combatant" which was needed to allow Guantanimo and the rest. I remember Powell being vehemently against this EC classification... I think he knows the history.”<br><br>But I see a huge fascist propaganda effort that tries to whitewash the guilt of the average soldier and German, and a resurgence in “German views” of the war like that recent Hitler’s bunker movie being pushed by fascists. It seems to be we are either offered Goldenhagens “Hitler’s Willing Executioners” on one end, which I think has quite a bit of truth in it, and "Other Losses" "Disarmed Enemy Soldiers", on the other, which I think reflects the truth of the poor, bitter, war-like, once genocidal ultra-patriotic, deluded German soldier. So the view of the most vicious pawns in the great game. Were they abused in these camps if they had any Intel value against the commies? No way Jose. McCloy set those fuckers up in style. Did the Russian soldiers engage in wholesale rape and mayhem compared to what the Germans did in say, Byelorussia? Hell no. That is pure lies and bullshit. Did individual soldiers/units extract vengeance? Sure. And I oppose that, and they should have been - and in many cases were - arrested and imprisoned for rape, looting, and black marketeering. But am I losing sleep over those things, compared to the horrific nature of the capitaslist (note I don’t say German) fasisct killing machine? Not much, considering all the suffering they caused. But what really counts in the scheme of things? Did the Vietnamese extract revenge against US soldiers they caught sometimes? Yes, but from their context I’m not going to go judging them as harshly as I would judge our side, who were clearly the aggressors and in the wrong, in that conflict. And I spent 5 years active on the POW/MIA issue, and care more than just a bit about our soldiers. As I said before, the average German soldier knew that the Russians were hanging POW’s, the Americans were giving them jobs in the Cold War. My view on Dresden is more complex, as well. We may agree it was one of the most working-class and diverse cities in Germany, with a huge poor assimilated Jewish population before the war. In fact it was one of the most left-wing cities in Germany, outside of Berlin, and it was a hotbed of Marxist (and Jewish) struggle. The firebombing by Churchill and Roosevelt was an attack at the end of the war against the last remaining reserve of Marxism in Germany that Hitler had not sent off to the eastern front or to the camps. Check out Mike Davis’ Dead Cities on that one, or McGowan’s Understanding The F Word (a great synopsis of my opinion to a large degree btw). In my view the vast majority of residents of Dresden before the war were Marxists and progressive socialists. <br><br>But I figure that my idea of accurate history is WAY different from yours. Soy C do I have the time to butt heads with strongly-held ideas in a my-history vs. your-history thread? Or play logic games and intellectual one-upsmanship with superior rhetoriticians? No. It’s not that the Manhattan Project wasn’t filled with “intelligent” people, the best in writing, in math, in science. The “best brains” so-to-speak. But were they SMART? See, it’s not that I haven’t wanted to go at it with these ideas and back up others here that I read trying to say something like I am saying, or I don’t have a very well-researched opinion, or that I can’t back up what I say fully. Or that I expect it to be easy. It’s such a huge, time-consuming argument from where you’re at and I’m at, though.<br><br>I believe that the NEOCON mythology is a classic con job, and a “meme-level” extension of a historically successful smokescreen for the real sources of power, which are largely not Jewish. On a basic level did you ever think about how neo-liberal (which = capitalism in people’s minds) got switched to neo-con (which = Jew in people’s minds)? Do these people exist? Certainly. Are they a force in power? Absolutely. Are they being used as scapegoats, both willingly and unwillingly - tied to the front of the N.W.O. war-wagon? You better believe it. <br><br>Hey, if you are so good at sniffing out smear campaigns, how is it that the biggest one in the history of the world missed your radar? Oh, of course – you will say it’s pretty much a fabricated concept designed to hide the real roots of Jew power, and essentially a complete reversal of the truth, right? I’d say it’s more than you just seeing things differently. I know you are so primed to deny this intent behind the “neocon” meme, and I’d say, yup, gasp and deny all you want , ---at the end of the day--- you’re (unwillingly?) a contributor to not just Jew-hate, as bad as that is, but to the most current goals of the N.W.O. Pretty damning view, huh? Can we at least agree that it’s not some closed case? Lets’ say there’s a debate. With all the rancor and debate, and differing scholars and opinions, and the fact that much of the evidence of these things happened quite a while ago, how do we, in this day and age, judge the truth of the question? Can we 100%? Obviously not. So we need to kind of try to research the truth from all sides, and also we need to consider WHY things are being pushed at us, on all levels, not just FOX. <br>And more importantly, I think IT IS important to look at the underlying psychological reasons that drive people to choose one or the other, considering the fact that an intelligent person would at least admit that it’s not some widely agreed-upon debate, like the earth is round or something. Are people largely believing some evidence vs. other evidence because of “intuition” or a general “sense” of the way things work? As much as “you folks” have set up this self-absolving paradigm where you are able to deny unconscious hate, or racism, or prejudice against Jews, and say it is somehow ridiculous and ADL Z-propaganda, I have my doubts about your sincerity. I believe there is another level beyond the hype where we can admit that we are influenced by deeper internal bias. Am I biased for the Jews? I don’t think you would agree that - despite some people’s claims to the contrary - “the anti-neocon/Jewish conspiracy” (for lack of a better identifying term), is not really a “suppressed opinion” in terms of availability. A cursory search of the internet shows a predominance of info ranging from Raimondo to Lasn to Irving to Zundel to outright Nazi sites. How many sites are there positing anything close to the view I describe? Maybe 1, tenc.net, and he’s sooo Jew-ish that it is impossible for you guys to take him seriously, even though he happens to be one of the only ones showing this historic connection between “anti-Semitism” and the establishment, and the pushing of fundamentalist Islam directly by the “CIA”. <br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
