Chip Berlet Caught Impersonating Anti-Zionist On Web

by **Dreams End** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 10:18 am

I don't have a definitive view of Berlet, and again, caution us all about calling people "agents" without certain knowledge. We are coming into times in which such accusations could get someone killed. HOWEVER, let me say that, assuming for the sake of argument that this thread is correct, it sure has worked. I had always assumed Spotlight was a rightwing, racist rag. I've still never read it myself, but was surprised to find that Namebase had said something to the extent of, "We follow this paper because they reported stuff no one else did and we see very little anti-Semitic content at all" I can also say that in the early nineties I discounted all information from many such sources due to Berlet's labels. Also, IF this is true, please pay attention to how sophisticated this is. Planting someone to walk such a fine line...offering out real and important information while serving to limit and discredit other types of information that is arguably MORE important. How would he even keep it all straight? That said, some of the people in the orbit that Berlet is concerned about I have reasons other than Berlet for worrying about. They reallly do seem connected to rightwing extremists. Some of this may be nothing more than the fact that some information about corruption in the government is simply useful for the extremist agenda and has nothing to do with the content of the information itself. However, many of these sources do that little dance of putting out information that I find valid and mixing in added and unsupported stuff. Think of Skolnick, who converts very reasonable concern about the firing of General Byrnes into "a shooting civil war has already begun." Many of those on Berlet's bad list are guilty of this, in my opinion. It's a slippery and confusing maze and often really hard to weed out the legitimate information.

by **proldic** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 11:21 am

Nothing's going to change, of course, until we're willing to get into the scrum and sift through the muck. Until then it looks to many folks that it's pretty much just the racists calling him out, and look what that does to the cause of truth. There is a desperate need for some well-written analysis dissecting and challenging these sticky issues. One thing that comes right to mind is a rebuttal to the Wayne Madsen "Art School Spy Ring " article, or maybe an essay that helps to, as Ruppert says, draw "a better map", a map that maybe processes the role of groups like the ADL and SPLC in context w/ what we know on a macro-view. Ironically, just days ago, a public school teacher friend of mine related to me how he had been at a seminar in NYC, and ended up in a conversation with a lobbyist from People for the American Way (liberal think-tank and activist org) who specialized in educational issues, specifically fighting religious charter schools. This lobbyist's sole focus was on the right-wing push to destroy the concept of a public school system, through Christian fundamentalist schools, funding for religious academies, etc.. Apparently, until the conversation, she'd barely considered the significant support that liberal and alternative-thinking type folks had given to that push. And it turns out she'd been "working with Chip for years", and he was one of her bigger sources of info. Said she'd never heard of his long-standing reputation as a government informant. My friend believed her to be telling the truth, and ended up spending some time with her describing the debate about Chip. He seemed to think it had an impact on her. What impact I don't know. Personally, I know alot more about this issue than I've posted, so if any good writers with free time wanted to take on that role, I could help a bit. For what it's worth, I personally saw it happen first-hand how he almost single-handedly was responsible for destroying a very hope-inspiring and economically pragmatic populist alliance between "red staters" and the grass-roots urban left during Volker's "belt tightening" of the wheat and rust belts during Bush/Reagan era, with smears and dirty tricks. I could break down a whole time line about that. When I saw it happen I just couldn't believe that anybody who claimed to be progressive would do anything like that. It just seemed so wrong. And that's when I began to pick up bits and pieces about him. Since then, I have experienced LITERALLY a dozen first-hand accounts from honest and credible people of this guy's Berlet's exploits. Listen, I'm not bullshitting and I'm no fucking agent -- trust me on this one -- to talk like he has ANY credibility whatsoever flys in the face of the reality I know "on the ground". This guy can't even show his face at rallys or public conferences anymore because he's gone and been so ham-fisted (the Sean McBride scam x 10) about what he does through the years, and exposed himself so many times, pissed so many good people off. Right now he's just counting on the general ignorance that people have about this debate, and anti-conspiracy denial to cover his ass. Hiding in plain sight, you might say. But John Foster "Chip" Berlet's cover is being blown as we speak. Doesn't mean there isn't a discussion to be had about the role of a "Chip" AFTER we all come to recognize who he really is. Some people think it's necessary to have a "left-wing" gatekeeper-spook that prevents the left from making alliances with "the patriot movement", "right-wing", "libertarians", etc. From what I've heard, he actually has pretty deep rationalization for the more undercover stuff that he does. Read that interview w/ the computer magazine I posted, to get a feel for it.

by **Dreams End** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:04 pm

This was linked by anon, but I thought I'd post the text of the message to give folks an idea of what posters on this thread are worried about: <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Right Wing Propagandists by Fight the Right Tuesday December 10, 2002 at 01:05 PM Rivero, What Really Happened, Go off, Dandelion, Gordon Thomas are essentially all part of an inbred and incestuous network of Right Wing propagandists and disinformation artists. They included not only the standard Hard Right outlets like Newsmax but also Christian Fascist moupieces like Dandelion. Their political function and agenda in general is to act as a phony opposition or Trojan Horse media specifically targetted towards those people who question the official story. If you study the disinformation put out by these propagandists, you will see a similar pattern in that they question the official story or version of events--only to carefully spin the issue in a way which just so happens to reinforce their own Right Wing agendas and political campaigns. In particular with respect to 9-11, most of the sites have tried to seize upon obvious holes and lies in the official story about 9-11 in order to direct and deflect blame AWAY from the Bush Regime and American State in general towards some foreign bogeyman or patsy. The bottom line is that these pseudo-alternative media outlets set up by the Right Wing have the effect of being classic CIA style psyops operations. They question the official story, only to steer and focus attention away from the more fascistic political factions which support the American military-corporate complex onto a suitable "enemy" foreign or domestic. <hr></blockquote> I know about What really happened but I've never heard of the others. I'm posting this only to show the types of activities people here are suspicious of. And where it says "foreign bogeyman" you can replace it with "Israel" for the most part.

by **bethmex** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 6:24 pm

"most of the sites have tried to seize upon obvious holes and lies in the official story about 9-11 in order to direct and deflect blame AWAY from the Bush Regime and American State in general towards some foreign bogeyman or patsy." Bushnazico, Inc., rife with Israelis that include Michael Chertoff and Dov Zakheim, works gleefully with Zionist buddies on the other side of the big ditch. See the all-seeing-eye pyramid on the back of the dollar bill, and its companion on top of the Israeli Supreme Court building. Paragraph one, above, plays the game of spinning analysis in a way that it keeps the Israeli's out of the picture they are very much in up to their False Flag World Expert necks... How does 'dancing Mossad agents caught in the act then quietly deported by the aforementioned Chertoff' jive with an innocent nation set up as a patsy?

by **Dreams End** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 7:23 pm

Assuming Israel is innocent and assuming Israel controls all foreign policy of the US are two different ideas. Given that Israel is a major "friend" of the US, you bet they are up to no good. Assuming that Israel controls the US, however, is simply reasoning so faulty that one can only assume anti-Semitic ideology is at least partly to blame.

by **bethmex** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 8:40 pm

The crimes we are discussing will not be solved via 'racial profiling', nor is 'racial profiling the driver behind the investigation into the crime. Crimes were committed, and we're looking for the perps, whomever they might be. The combination of deafening silence and attacks on the the messenger that come with saying "Zionists are complicit" tell you that you are nearing something important. The conversation is not 'who rules the world' but rather 'who did these crimes, and why?'

by **Qutb** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:07 pm

I have no doubt they are. But they are nor the main culprits by any stretch of the imagination. Germans, Pakistanis, Saudis and even the Swiss appear to be more prevalent among the conspirators than Jews, but don't let that stop you from focusing on Jews. I recently read about Mr Rosen, one of the two indicted AIPAC guys, and the person who is responsible for shifting AIPAC's policies to the right, that he doesn't give a shit about Israel. I don't doubt it. These people are US imperialists, first and foremost, and as such share the exact same outlook as their much more numerous WASP counterparts. Michael Chertoff, to pick another example, represented Hamas financier Magdy el-Amir, and protected him and his brother from investigations into terrorist financing. Chertoff could give a rat's ass if Magdy's money is spent on explosives for suicide bombers who blow up Israeli citizens. The two AIPACers did pass on classified information to the Israeli embassy, but I doubt they did so without the knowledge and consent of defense secretary Rumsfeld. As for the "dancing Israelis", art students and so on, my impression is that they were keeping the 9/11 hijackers under surveillance, but that they didn't have any contact with them, at least not directly. Whether they were co-conspirators or just spying is an open question, in my opinion. By contrast, "sons and daughters of German industrialists" flew in on several occasions to meet with the hijackers. Who appear to be involved most deeply: Israelis/Zionists or Germans? If Israel controlled America's foreign policy, would they be evacuating the settlers from the Gaza strip?

by **bethmex** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 10:13 pm

"they were keeping the 9/11 hijackers under surveillance..." So, why were these defenders of Democracy, these on-our-side hunters of bad A-rab guys, hot on the trail of the perps...CELEBRATING, at that very emotional moment? For those unfamiliar, let's go to the game films: "...seen by New Jersey residents on Sept. 11 making fun of the World Trade Center ruins and going to extreme lengths to photograph themselves in front of the wreckage. The FBI seized and developed their photos, one of which shows Sivan Kurzberg flicking a cigarette lighter in front of the smouldering ruins in an apparently celebratory gesture." (By Doug Sanders, with a report from Associated Press, Monday, December 17, 2001, Print Edition, Page A7) Published on Saturday, June 22, 2002 by ABC News: "Maria says she saw three young men kneeling on the roof of a white van in the parking lot of her apartment building. "They seemed to be taking a movie," Maria said. The men were taking video or photos of themselves with the World Trade Center burning in the background, she said. What struck Maria were the expressions on the men's faces. "They were like happy, you know … They didn't look shocked to me. I thought it was very strange," she said. <a href="http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/02/03/WTC/spies10.html">www.fpp.co.uk/online/02/0...ies10.html</a> Website note: The Orwellian memory-hole yawns again: Like the original Fox News TV series (see links below), the original New Jersey newspaper story of the 5 Israeli "movers" has been removed from the Bergen Record web site: it was archived as "2bombvan200109125.htm" Steven Gordon is the lawyer representing the five detainees... "One of the neighbors who saw them called the police and claimed they were posing, dancing and laughing, against the background of the burning towers. The five denied dancing..." "They parked, stood on the roof of the truck to get a better view of the destroyed towers and took photographs. A woman who was in the building above the lot testified that she saw them smiling and exchanging high-fives. She and another neighbor called the police and reported on Middle-Eastern looking people dancing on the truck. They copied and reported the license plates."

by **bethmex** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 10:19 pm

By contrast, "sons and daughters of German industrialists" flew in on several occasions to meet with the hijackers. How meaty. By 'the hijackers', you are referring I presume to the 19 guys who aren't on the passenger registries half of whom are still alive...the guys with the stripper girlfriends who drink tough and leave Korans in bars and rental cars and who, best of all, have magic flameproof passports? Israel, documented advanced notice of 9/11 and 7/7. No, ODIGO is not a German company. The Germans are not in charge of security for the London tube.

by **foodforlife** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 12:45 am

"Who did these crimes, and why?," Bethmex... How about- the CIA! The elite establishment of the *United States,* not Israel, the top of the proverbial pyramid here in our own country, the top of the military chain of command that ordered a "standdown" of the air defense. Don't believe the "ZOG"; it's a joke. I find it fascinating that Chip Berlet, who has a long history of sure acting like a CIA agent (looks like a xxx, acts like a xxx, must be a ???) seems to have been caught pushing the "grand Zionist conspiracy" meme under a false name. That little trickster. Oh what could his agenda possibly be in doing so?

by **proldic** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 3:40 pm

Good point Foodforlife! Deep stuff here... Why would someone whose whole career has been dedicated to fighting right-wing populism, who has worked as a part-time agent for the ADL, be SPREADING the anti-zionist line in sophisticated parapolitical forums like CIA-Drugs? Especially from the neo-con/zionist/jew line that "Sean McBride" was pushing. I mean, it's not like there wasn't enough of those voices out there at that time, like Rivero and Rense. Maybe the "meme" wasn't gaining traction yet...

by **bethmex** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 5:48 pm

The question I asked was 'why were the patriotic Mossad agents who were helping us catch bad A-rab spies CELEBRATING?' Happy to get to the new, valid, interesting, to-be-discussed questions after we answer that one.

by **Qutb** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:23 pm

Happiness does not equal complicity... Rigorous intuition, you know. We know that Israel had foreknowledge, as had about 15 other countries. The Israelis handed over a list of 19 suspected terrorists preparing a terrorist attack in the US, and at least some of the 9/11 hijackers were supposedly on that list. Just one of many countries that issued similar warnings. They were expecting it, obviously, since they were there with their camera. FWIW, there were also Israelis monitoring the Sears tower. I think the story of these Israelis, if indeed it is true, is very interesting and I would certainly like to know more about what they were up to. I also think it is interesting that it was Fox News that was pushing this story. Could you please explain something to me: where does this obsession with Israel, Jews and Zionists come from? I just don't get it. They are like 13-14 million worldwide. It's a tiny desert country with 6 million inhabitants. They constitute 2% of the population of the United States. Yet so many people are obsessed about them, seeing their supposed tentacles everywhere and behind everything. It's a mystery to me. This obsession seems to be spreading on the RI board, where it was mercifully absent in the beginning.

by **proldic** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:13 pm

You don't seem to go very far below the surface in your analysis of things. In fact you seem to stop your investigations right at the word "Israel". Just like you not understanding why I posted "Bingo! Good Post" in response to the post about the Republican article. Instead you assumed I was endorsing the CONTENT of the article. Duh! Or like you hanging your point here on the fact that people were caught "celebrating" the attack. What 's up w/ that? Maybe it's hard for your racist, narrow mind to understand that, even if they were monitoring the hijackers, which is a big assumption, they might not have been the ONLY players or even the KEY players in the game. Um, like, just because they were filming and celebrating the attacks does not mean they committed them. MANY different types of people had foreknowledge, were acting suspicious, and celebrated both before and after the attacks. Hey, I distinctly remember some leftists practically gloating, talking about stuff like "what comes around goes around" a la "little Eichmanns" etc. I have a picture of Rachel Corrie wearing a black burka, jumping up and down, and burning a souvenier American flag among a gorup of Palestinian youth. Not on 9/11, but still, don't tell me fanatics weren't jumping up and down. Don't tell me that it was just right-wing Israelis. Cause thats BS. If you want to try to make the argument that your case, as you have intimated, goes beyond suspicion and implication, and actually links those specific Israelis to 9/11 - in any better or more numerous ways than any of the evidence linking AQ operatives - be my guest. That's different, but the idea that just by somehow celebrating, acting suspicious, or having foreknowledge implicates someone would mean that 1/2 the leftist and middle Eastern communities in the US are implicated as well. Like these folks: Egyptian Cabbies Said To Return To Egypt Village Voice 9/25/02 Middle Eastern Security Guard Warns Friends Seattle P-I 10.12.01 New York Mosque Warnings: Stay Out Of Lower Manhattan NYDN 10/12/01 Rumor's In NYC Arab Community About Attacks AP 10.2.01, SF Chronicle 10.3.01 NY Pakistani Student Forecasts Destruction Insight 9.10.02 Alsaha.com Internet Forum Threats Newsweek 5.23.03 Palestinian Activist Warned Colleagues, Returned Home Hartford Courant 2.19.04 Dallas (Pakistani) 5th Grader Forecasts WW3 Houston Chronicle 9.19.01, 10.1.01 NJ (Middle-Eastern) 6th Grader Warns Teacher Insight 9.10.02 Tampa (Middle Eastern) Student Predicts Bloodshed AP 9.14.01 etc. etc. What is to be expected from someone who offers nothing to this board, except to crawl out from under your rock to incite a "blame the jews for 9/11" meme, and post links to holocaust revisionist David Irving?

by **robertdreed** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 8:37 pm

Could you please explain something to me: where does this obsession with Israel, Jews and Zionists come from? I just don't get it. They are like 13-14 million worldwide. It's a tiny desert country with 6 million inhabitants. They constitute 2% of the population of the United States. Yet so many people are obsessed about them, seeing their supposed tentacles everywhere and behind everything. It's a mystery to me. I think it's because the Jews appear in positions of prominence in numbers that are out of proportion to their fraction of the planet's population. Additionally, the fact that they often feature prominently on both opposing sides of a given political issue encourages "shorthand thinkers" to conclude that there's a hidden conspiracy of common Jewish interest behind all conflicts. That's a bogus way to consider political issues and current events. But you have to admit that it makes things simpler. That's more important to a lot of observers than actually paying attention and getting their facts straight. I vew the over-representation of Jews as political activists as evidence that too many non-Jews are shirking their civic and political responsibilities, and/or haven't prepared themselves intellectually to contribute. That said, I notice that even Jews are falling off on the love of scholarship and intellectualism- at least in the USA. Everyone seems to want to watch the movie version... Edited by: <A HREF=http://p097.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=robertdreed>robertdreed</A> at: 8/17/05 6:45 pm

Chip Berlet Caught Impersonating Anti-Zionist On Web

Re: Ace and Berlet

hear you on that

Re: hear you on that

Spin, spin

Re: Spin, spin

Crimes

Re: Zionists are complicit

They were like happy, you know...

Magic Flameproof Passports, Ho

Re: Chip Berlet Caught Impersonating Anti-Zionist On Web

That little trickster Oh what could his agenda possibly be

Celebrating, buy why?

Re: They were like happy, you know...

Big Deal to you

The Ubiquitous Jews

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