Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

[seemslikeadream]

metal detectors don't cost that much

[Wombaticus Rex]

metal detectors don't cost that much

They really do, though! Basic access point rundown still costs over $5k. That's a huge investment and it doesn't even account for the amount of space it's going to eat up in order to 1) install it and 2) manage it for every customer who walks through the door.

The other downside is that the basic pro-sumer level tech is not very robust and if you want to buy them for storage, travel and installation, they will die on you very quickly. The security companies who do serious roving installations, like film festivals and secret political conferences -- to the extent there is a difference -- use systems that cost way more but last way longer.

A problem neither socialism nor capitalism have been able to resolve is the huge cost of liability. Security systems tend to get built out to legal minimums.

Edit: Pro Tip from my peanut gallery - your best bet if anyone reading this is buying is dual RFID pass / metal detectors, you can hire teenagers for nothing to monitor your taser gate. Just kidding about the "taser" part. You still need bonded employees with tasers.

[Agent Orange Cooper]

http://crisiscast.com/

"We dramatise events for emerging security needs in the UK, Middle East and worldwide. Our specialist role play actors – many with security clearance – are trained by behavioural psychologists and rigorously rehearsed in criminal and victim behaviour to help police, the army and the emergency services, hospitals, schools, local authorities, government, private security firms, shopping centres, airports, big business, criminal justice departments, media and the military to simulate incident environments for life saving procedures.

We use state of the art British film industry techniques, props and special effects to help trainers deliver essential, hands-on, high octane crisis response and disaster management training. We also work with trainee doctors, psychologists and care professionals."

http://crisiscast.com/clients/

"Some of the work we do is sensitive. It can also be of vital importance. We believe in loyalty and we understand the need for confidentiality. We are happy to meet and talk and let you judge for yourself whether you trust us and our specially trained role play actors and film makers to look after the dramatic needs of your crisis management training. Here are a few of the clients we have been privileged to work with recently:

http://www.securityinfowatch.com/articl ... simply-g4s

Wackenhut has long been a name tied to manned security services, and the name had two iterations: There was G4S Wackenhut, a global firm providing both manned security and security systems integration, and also Wackenhut Services Incorporated, the Palm Beach Gardens, Fla., firm spun out of Wackenhut and known for providing armed security services to the U.S. government and critical infrastructure (see WSI corporate overview). Now, the Wackenhut name of G4S Wackenhut is being dropped as the company rebrands itself purely as G4S, in a move that the company says will position itself "to deliver a new category of integrated security solutions that combine manpower and technology."

via Kenn Thomas on Facebook
to remind readers of the significance of this find, here's a paragraph from The Octopus: "Wackenhut is a private detective agency founded in 1954 by former FBI man George Wackenhut and three ex-FBI friends in Miami, a hotbed of rightist political activity at the time. George Wackenhut had important political connections – Florida Governor Claude Kirk and Senator George Smathers among them – and shared a predilection with J. Edgar Hoover for acquiring files on people. His connections help build his agency into a powerful private police force with huge government contracts. Senator Smathers' law firm hired guards from the Wackenhut subsidiary to work nuclear bomb test sites in Nevada and Cape Canaveral, a workaround to the federal law forbidding private detective agencies working for the government. George Wackenhut's preoccupation with compiling files made the agency an extraordinary intelligence resources well. Investigator John Connolly noted that 'By 1965, Wackenhut was boasting to potential investors that the company maintained files on two and a half million suspected dissidents – one in forty-six American adults then living. In 1966, after acquiring the private files of Karl Barslaag, a former staff member of the House Committee on Un-American Activities, Wackenhut could confidentially maintain that with more than four million names, it had the largest privately held file on suspected dissidents in America.'"

(The Octopus, Kenn Thomas & Jim Keith, pgs. 32-33)

[Novem5er]

The shooter had a wife and a three year old son. This was his second marriage. The FBI is interviewing her and possible charges may brought forth. She knew he was acting strange, but so far denies knowing about his pending violence.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/06/14/everything-known-about-noor-zahi-salman-the-wife-of-orlando-terrorist-omar-mateen.html

Public records show Salman was a student at the now-defunct Heald College-Concord. Facebook accounts for her relatives show they are Palestinian. But they don't appear to have been strictly religious. Salman and her sisters did not wear the hijab, according to posts, in contrast to ISIS’s requirements for women. Mateen’s ex-wife has stated that Mateen was not very religious when they were married.
While Salman’s family posted about Israel’s 2014 war in Gaza, they don’t appear otherwise political or ideological, and their social media profiles don’t indicate any sympathies with extremist groups. Mateen, however, pledged allegiance to ISIS in a 911 call placed during the attack.

[Jerky]

Do you think they'd have a better time in (deeply) Christian UGANDA, 4thbase?

J

We need to thank this exceptional asshole for possibly helping to keep the focus in this case where it belongs: anti-gay, exterminationist hatred, not "radical Islamism."

If those dead gay clubgoers had gone on a big gay group trip to Saudi Arabia, Iran, Yemen, or Afghanistan they would've wound up no less dead, except their executions would've been official state business. Several entire nations which function as giant collective Omar Mateens. You were saying?

As for the body count if it were two pistols and unlimited clips, Jack, you seem to be pulling that discrepancy of 35 to 40 completely out of your ass. First, he did kill some of the victims with a handgun. Second, it's a packed nightclub, the victims were fish in a barrel as one witness put it, he could've killed a shitload of people with just a single fucking shotgun or revolver. Third, he patroled the place and re-shot wounded victims, which would've ensured a high body count no matter the weapon. Fourth, what kind of body count do you think there'd have been if he had exploded a couple of pressure cooker bombs instead?

[identity]

The personal story - I know a fellow who actually runs a security company now, a pretty excellent one, too. I also know a lot of feral hick lunatics. Their paths collided one night, around 2004-05, when a friend of mine with grandiose problems opted to walk into a local bar with a nicely articulated AR-15 slung over his shoulder. He did so through the front door, the bouncer recognized him as a regular and let him in with a nod, and my friend spent about 10-15 minutes inside acting like his weapon was no big deal and ordering shots for too many people.

Someone clearly told the young bouncer, because he came downstairs to intervene and ejected Old Boy from the premises. A good call, that. He was never good around both guns and liquor, I would imagine few of us are.

Now, I also got to overhear the doorman in question talk about the incident in some detail, multiple times, as I was only ever at a bar to close it down in those days. Again and again, he said that he would have never thought to look for someone wearing an automatic rifle. He said he thought it was some kind of musical instrument.

ar-15 flute.jpg

[JackRiddler]

We need to thank this exceptional asshole for possibly helping to keep the focus in this case where it belongs: anti-gay, exterminationist hatred, not "radical Islamism."

If those dead gay clubgoers had gone on a big gay group trip to Saudi Arabia, Iran, Yemen, or Afghanistan they would've wound up no less dead, except their executions would've been official state business. Several entire nations which function as giant collective Omar Mateens. You were saying?

Obviously your hypothetical of a trip by Americans from Orlando is ridiculous.

But, I'm not uncharitable, let's adjust it so it could actually work. It's roughly true that such a fate could befall the local visitors to a clandestine gay club discovered in one of those countries, at least depending on its form (since there are actually sanctioned activities involving male-male sex that are not considered as gay, certainly in Afghanistan; and I'm sure neither of us is too happy about those).

But otherwise I'm stumped. I'm not sure what you think you are challenging in anything I wrote. And that seems to be what you think you are doing, even being smug about: showing me up, with some kind of killer point. But I guess it's just going over my head. So I'll endeavor a response, to see if in the process I can figure out what I'm missing:

That's right, there are whole countries that already apply the monstrous Old-Testament law, or monstrous interpretation of it, that the "Christian" pastor cited in the above article would also like to see enforced here, in the United States, in 2016. I guess he would consider them good role models, at least in this regard.

I'm not actually sure about how much executing per se would happen in Iran, as opposed to imprisoning and other horrors, though some no doubt. Or how things are on the various divides within Yemen. Or what state would be able to enforce anything in particular in Afghanistan. I also wonder why you omitted Uganda, where, what do you know, U.S. "Christian" pastors lobbied for the imposition of the death penalty for homosexuals.

Perhaps you think your comment shows some superiority of the "Christian Western culture," for merely producing pastors who call for mass extermination of people based on imputed object of sexual attraction, and not actually writing it into law (usually) or, anyway, enforcing it? I don't know.

Personally, I think it illustrates the urgency of maintaining a strict separation of church and state, which I'm sure you also support, no?

But what interests me the most about your list is that it does include the indisputable top state culprit in the commission of religious-based atrocities against, not just gays, but also women, secularists, atheists, and pretty much all those who are considered non-conformist to a particular interpretation of "god." And that would be Saudi Arabia.

That's also the country that, unlike the others on your list, aggressively exports and supports this form of religion as violent hatred, more so than any other country in the world except perhaps the neighboring micro-kingdoms in the Gulf. And, of course, it is the country that puts its money where its mouth is, so to speak, so that it is currently mired in an aggressive invasion of its neighbor, Yemen, as well as in supporting the worst of the jihadi groups fighting in Syria, as well as paying to push Wahhabi ideology to people worldwide.

And, interestingly, this is the most important ally of the United States in that region, if not one of the most important U.S. allies in the world -- at least, by U.S. government policy. Saudi Arabia is also the biggest purchaser of U.S. arms shipments, all of which require U.S. government approval. And of course this relationship has a long history going back to the 1970s, and before that to 1944, and a pre-history rooted in the British empire's co-construction of the House of Saud as if it constitutes a legit kingdom/nation/state.

So here as well I'm not sure why you think you are challenging anything I wrote. Would you not support an immediate cessation of U.S. aid and military support to Saudi Arabia and its various jihadi proxies in Syria, Yemen, Bahrain, and so forth? I certainly do. Would you not support a cessation of arms sales to that nation? Shouldn't it be Saudi Arabia appearing in the top spot on the list of state terror-sponsors, before any other supposed state sponsor? (Well, other than the U.S. itself, with its varied global investements in many other unsavory characters, far beyond the Saudi Arabian state that at this point exists mainly thanks to its status as a U.S. client.)

Awaiting your replies, if any, but please don't expect regular responses on this. The "Reconquista" already maxed out my annual minimums for dealing with your particular brand of, um, argument. We all have outside lives to live, all that.

Thanks!

[identity]

Pastor refuses to mourn Orlando victims: ‘The tragedy is that more of them didn’t die’



Pastor Roger Jimenez from Verity Baptist Church in Sacramento told his congregation that Christians “shouldn’t be mourning the death of 50 sodomites.”

The pious pastor is right; we shouldn't be mourning the death of 50 gay sodomites, we should really be mourning the death-in-life that is the entirely synthetic perfection of the pastor's plastic family. What we see in that picture is a trillion times more repellent, odious, obscene, and depraved than any number of sodomites fucking.

[JackRiddler]

Poor kids, indeed.

[tapitsbo]

Separation of church and state sounds pretty problematic to me. Colonialist and Islamophobic (sic)

I guess we'll have to settle for separation of state and Curtis Yarvin's Cathedral (lol)

[FourthBase]

Do you think they'd have a better time in (deeply) Christian UGANDA, 4thbase?

J

We need to thank this exceptional asshole for possibly helping to keep the focus in this case where it belongs: anti-gay, exterminationist hatred, not "radical Islamism."

If those dead gay clubgoers had gone on a big gay group trip to Saudi Arabia, Iran, Yemen, or Afghanistan they would've wound up no less dead, except their executions would've been official state business. Several entire nations which function as giant collective Omar Mateens. You were saying?

As for the body count if it were two pistols and unlimited clips, Jack, you seem to be pulling that discrepancy of 35 to 40 completely out of your ass. First, he did kill some of the victims with a handgun. Second, it's a packed nightclub, the victims were fish in a barrel as one witness put it, he could've killed a shitload of people with just a single fucking shotgun or revolver. Third, he patroled the place and re-shot wounded victims, which would've ensured a high body count no matter the weapon. Fourth, what kind of body count do you think there'd have been if he had exploded a couple of pressure cooker bombs instead?

If you think being alive is having a better time than being dead, yes.

[FourthBase]

We need to thank this exceptional asshole for possibly helping to keep the focus in this case where it belongs: anti-gay, exterminationist hatred, not "radical Islamism."

If those dead gay clubgoers had gone on a big gay group trip to Saudi Arabia, Iran, Yemen, or Afghanistan they would've wound up no less dead, except their executions would've been official state business. Several entire nations which function as giant collective Omar Mateens. You were saying?

Obviously your hypothetical of a trip by Americans from Orlando is ridiculous.

But, I'm not uncharitable, let's adjust it so it could actually work. It's roughly true that such a fate could befall the local visitors to a clandestine gay club discovered in one of those countries, at least depending on its form (since there are actually sanctioned activities involving male-male sex that are not considered as gay, certainly in Afghanistan; and I'm sure neither of us is too happy about those).

But otherwise I'm stumped. I'm not sure what you think you are challenging in anything I wrote. And that seems to be what you think you are doing, even being smug about: showing me up, with some kind of killer point. But I guess it's just going over my head. So I'll endeavor a response, to see if in the process I can figure out what I'm missing:

That's right, there are whole countries that already apply the monstrous Old-Testament law, or monstrous interpretation of it, that the "Christian" pastor cited in the above article would also like to see enforced here, in the United States, in 2016. I guess he would consider them good role models, at least in this regard.

I'm not actually sure about how much executing per se would happen in Iran, as opposed to imprisoning and other horrors, though some no doubt. Or how things are on the various divides within Yemen. Or what state would be able to enforce anything in particular in Afghanistan. I also wonder why you omitted Uganda, where, what do you know, U.S. "Christian" pastors lobbied for the imposition of the death penalty for homosexuals.

Perhaps you think your comment shows some superiority of the "Christian Western culture," for merely producing pastors who call for mass extermination of people based on imputed object of sexual attraction, and not actually writing it into law (usually) or, anyway, enforcing it? I don't know.

Personally, I think it illustrates the urgency of maintaining a strict separation of church and state, which I'm sure you also support, no?

But what interests me the most about your list is that it does include the indisputable top state culprit in the commission of religious-based atrocities against, not just gays, but also women, secularists, atheists, and pretty much all those who are considered non-conformist to a particular interpretation of "god." And that would be Saudi Arabia.

That's also the country that, unlike the others on your list, aggressively exports and supports this form of religion as violent hatred, more so than any other country in the world except perhaps the neighboring micro-kingdoms in the Gulf. And, of course, it is the country that puts its money where its mouth is, so to speak, so that it is currently mired in an aggressive invasion of its neighbor, Yemen, as well as in supporting the worst of the jihadi groups fighting in Syria, as well as paying to push Wahhabi ideology to people worldwide.

And, interestingly, this is the most important ally of the United States in that region, if not one of the most important U.S. allies in the world -- at least, by U.S. government policy. Saudi Arabia is also the biggest purchaser of U.S. arms shipments, all of which require U.S. government approval. And of course this relationship has a long history going back to the 1970s, and before that to 1944, and a pre-history rooted in the British empire's co-construction of the House of Saud as if it constitutes a legit kingdom/nation/state.

So here as well I'm not sure why you think you are challenging anything I wrote. Would you not support an immediate cessation of U.S. aid and military support to Saudi Arabia and its various jihadi proxies in Syria, Yemen, Bahrain, and so forth? I certainly do. Would you not support a cessation of arms sales to that nation? Shouldn't it be Saudi Arabia appearing in the top spot on the list of state terror-sponsors, before any other supposed state sponsor? (Well, other than the U.S. itself, with its varied global investements in many other unsavory characters, far beyond the Saudi Arabian state that at this point exists mainly thanks to its status as a U.S. client.)

Awaiting your replies, if any, but please don't expect regular responses on this. The "Reconquista" already maxed out my annual minimums for dealing with your particular brand of, um, argument. We all have outside lives to live, all that.

Thanks!

You understood my point, you disingenuous commie slimeball.

[JackRiddler]

You understood my point, you disingenuous commie slimeball.

Thanks!

[82_28]

Can anyone explain how this solemn thread has totally devolved into name calling?

No wait, don't! Stay on topic. The personal insults and vitriol needs to go away. Thanks!

[0_0]

You can view lots of pictures of the inside of the killer's home in the media, for example here: http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/14/inside-th ... n-5943716/

I remember with the San Bardino shootings it was so strange how the media had acces to the home and so soon after the attacks. But some time has passed since and i'm wondering if that's considered normal now? What do you good people think?