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MacCruiskeen » Sat Aug 20, 2016 10:39 pm wrote:Imagine a film identical in all respects to the one we're discussing here, except for a single difference:
Imagine it had been filmed late at night, not on the hallowed (and highly-secure) premises of CERN. but in a schoolyard or playground in a run-down working-class area anywhere in Europe.
Do you think the police would agree to let the headmaster treat it as "an internal matter"? Do you think the police would just not bother to investigate, even perfunctorily, whether or not someone had been murdered or seriously hurt there? Do you think the police would presume it had been nothing more than a harmless "prank", a "hoax"?
I don't.
MacCruiskeen » Sat Aug 20, 2016 2:39 pm wrote:Imagine a film identical in all respects to the one we're discussing here, except for a single difference:
Imagine it had been filmed late at night, not on the hallowed (and highly-secure) premises of CERN. but in a schoolyard or playground in a run-down working-class area anywhere in Europe.
Do you think the police would agree to let the headmaster treat it as "an internal matter"? Do you think the police would just not bother to investigate, even perfunctorily, whether or not someone had been murdered or seriously hurt there? Do you think the police would presume it had been nothing more than a harmless "prank", a "hoax"?
I don't.
Harvey » Sat Aug 20, 2016 5:31 pm wrote:MacCruiskeen » Sat Aug 20, 2016 10:39 pm wrote:Imagine a film identical in all respects to the one we're discussing here, except for a single difference:
Imagine it had been filmed late at night, not on the hallowed (and highly-secure) premises of CERN. but in a schoolyard or playground in a run-down working-class area anywhere in Europe.
Do you think the police would agree to let the headmaster treat it as "an internal matter"? Do you think the police would just not bother to investigate, even perfunctorily, whether or not someone had been murdered or seriously hurt there? Do you think the police would presume it had been nothing more than a harmless "prank", a "hoax"?
I don't.
Yeah, but it was.
And I doubt that it hasn't been investigated by police, we just don't know. Anything. At all.
MacCruiskeen » Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:32 pm wrote:From today's Torygraph:Geneva police have been informed of the prank but CERN said its investigation would remain internal and police would not be involved.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08 ... -campus-t/
In the absence of a body, a missing person fitting the description or any other evidence, what would you like RI readers to do?
MacCruiskeen » Sat Aug 20, 2016 11:46 pm wrote:Harvey » Sat Aug 20, 2016 5:31 pm wrote:MacCruiskeen » Sat Aug 20, 2016 10:39 pm wrote:Imagine a film identical in all respects to the one we're discussing here, except for a single difference:
Imagine it had been filmed late at night, not on the hallowed (and highly-secure) premises of CERN. but in a schoolyard or playground in a run-down working-class area anywhere in Europe.
Do you think the police would agree to let the headmaster treat it as "an internal matter"? Do you think the police would just not bother to investigate, even perfunctorily, whether or not someone had been murdered or seriously hurt there? Do you think the police would presume it had been nothing more than a harmless "prank", a "hoax"?
I don't.
Yeah, but it was.
I had noticed that, Harvey. That's why I used the word "imagine" and the conditional tense. The class aspect of this incident is particularly striking, but you just completely ignore the point I was making with that hypothetical scenario.And I doubt that it hasn't been investigated by police, we just don't know. Anything. At all.
*Sigh* The self-serving pretence that we know nothing and that we cannot possibly know anything is a particularly wearisome cliché and an obvious untruth. I know it's become a favourite at The New RI, but it's disappointing to see you coming out with it.MacCruiskeen » Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:32 pm wrote:From today's Torygraph:Geneva police have been informed of the prank but CERN said its investigation would remain internal and police would not be involved.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08 ... -campus-t/
^^Colour added for additional emphasis. (This gets tiring.)In the absence of a body, a missing person fitting the description or any other evidence, what would you like RI readers to do?
What a bizarre question. As if starting a thread on the RI Discussion Board (on any topic) is equivalent to demanding that readers do anything at all about it, except participate in the discussion in good faith if they're going to participate in it at all.
PufPuf93 wrote:One difference that breaks down this analogy is that the police most certainly would be directed to interact with professional security at CERN and all that entails rather than direct to the headmaster of a school.
James Purvis of CERN wrote:Currently, the senior management, HR, computer security, legal service and communications teams are managing the consequences of the actions of a small group of individuals. What perhaps started as a naïve prank is having significant and widespread repercussions for our Organization – from queries about our conduct, culture & security through to potentially more politically delicate questions.
http://home.cern/cern-people/opinion/20 ... lture-cern
James Purvis was appointed as CERN's Human Resources department head in 2016
http://home.cern/authors/james-purvis
brainpanhandler » Sat Aug 20, 2016 1:13 pm wrote:guruilla » Thu Aug 18, 2016 3:57 pm wrote:Meanwhile, for those of us not inclined to signal back "no-threat to power" with mimetic smirks & chuckles, the correlations between the scientific goal of the Hadron collider & the spiritual one of ritual sacrifice is probably worth unpacking a bit..?
Curious to hear more on this.
Purpose
Physicists hope that the LHC will help answer some of the fundamental open questions in physics, concerning the basic laws governing the interactions and forces among the elementary objects, the deep structure of space and time, and in particular the interrelation between quantum mechanics and general relativity, where current theories and knowledge are unclear or break down altogether. Data is also needed from high-energy particle experiments to suggest which versions of current scientific models are more likely to be correct – in particular to choose between the Standard Model and Higgsless models and to validate their predictions and allow further theoretical development. Many theorists expect new physics beyond the Standard Model to emerge at the TeV energy level, as the Standard Model appears to be unsatisfactory. Issues possibly to be explored by LHC collisions include:[16][17]
• Are the masses of elementary particles actually generated by the Higgs mechanism via electroweak symmetry breaking?[18] It was expected that the collider experiments will either demonstrate or rule out the existence of the elusive Higgs boson, thereby allowing physicists to consider whether the Standard Model or its Higgsless alternatives are more likely to be correct.[19][20][21] The experiments found a particle that appears to be the Higgs boson, strong evidence that the Standard Model has the correct mechanism of giving mass to the elementary particles.
• Is supersymmetry, an extension of the Standard Model and Poincaré symmetry, realized in nature, implying that all known particles have supersymmetric partners?[22][23][24]
• Are there extra dimensions,[25] as predicted by various models based on string theory, and can we detect them?[26]
• What is the nature of the dark matter that appears to account for 27% of the mass-energy of the universe?
Other open questions that may be explored using high-energy particle collisions:
• It is already known that electromagnetism and the weak nuclear force are different manifestations of a single force called the electroweak force. The LHC may clarify whether the electroweak force and the strong nuclear force are similarly just different manifestations of one universal unified force, as predicted by various Grand Unification Theories.
• Why is the fourth fundamental force (gravity) so many orders of magnitude weaker than the other three fundamental forces? See also Hierarchy problem.
• Are there additional sources of quark flavour mixing, beyond those already present within the Standard Model?
• Why are there apparent violations of the symmetry between matter and antimatter? See also CP violation.
• What are the nature and properties of quark–gluon plasma, thought to have existed in the early universe and in certain compact and strange astronomical objects today? This will be investigated by heavy ion collisions, mainly in ALICE, but also in CMS, ATLAS and LHCb. First observed in 2010, findings published in 2012 confirmed the phenomenon of jet quenching in heavy-ion collisions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Had ... er#Purpose
And what is the spiritual purpose of sacrifice? The Indian Sub-continent section is intriguing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sacrifice
As always, Wikipedia is a starting point, not an arbiter of all that is right and true. I just needed somewhere to start thinking about your intriguing question.
Human sacrifice may be a ritual practiced in a stable society, and may even be conductive to enhance societal bonds (see: Sociology of religion), both by creating a bond unifying the sacrificing community, and in combining human sacrifice and capital punishment, by removing individuals that have a negative effect on societal stability (criminals, religious heretics, foreign slaves or prisoners of war). But outside of civil religion, human sacrifice may also result in outbursts of "blood frenzy" and mass killings that destabilize society. The bursts of human sacrifice during European witch-hunts,[12] or during the French Revolutionary Reign of Terror, show similar sociological patterns (see also Moral panic).
“It would be unwise to condemn as irrational the practice of those savages who tear the heart and liver from an adversary, and devour them while yet warm. In any case it was the theory of the ancient Magicians, that any living being is a storehouse of energy varying in quantity according to the size and health of the animal, and in quality according to its mental and moral character. At the death of the animal this energy is liberated suddenly. [F]or nearly all purposes human sacrifice is the best.”
Nothing in our everyday experience gives us any reason to suppose that matter is not material, that it is made up of bizarre forms of energy that violate, very much like spirit, all of our normal notions of space, time, and causality. Yet when we subject matter to certain drastic treatments, like CERN’s Hadron Collider near Geneva, Switzerland, then we can see quite clearly that matter is not material at all. But—and this is the key—we can only get there through a great deal of physical violence, a violence so extreme and so precise that it cost us billions of dollars and decades of preparation to inflict it.
If I read his article correctly, Kripal is comparing the process of shattering matter to the means by which an individual can access higher or deeper (mystic) realms of perception as a result of physical and psychological trauma. While I can allow this to be true, my question to Kripal, regarding his piece, is: at what cost? Writing about Strieber, Kripal states that he “does not reduce the later mystical events to the earlier trauma. Rather, he suggests that physical and sexual trauma can ‘crack open the cosmic egg’ and so reveal a ‘hidden reality’ of unimaginable scope. In short, he offers us another version of the “traumatic secret.”
(Part 1) who defines the narrative, superordinate and subordinate testimonies, political power and narrative creation, the incoherency of ritual abuse narratives in the context of the dominant narrative, how we put our unthinking trust in figures of high status, the question of verisimilitude, gauging trustability, sabotaging the capacity to determine what’s real, binary thinking, “Satanic Panic” vs. “Satanic Ritual Abuse,” unquestioned assumptions, Christianity as a no-longer dominant narrative, how the ruling class adapts the narrative to maintain power and control, the New World Order and Scientific Rationalism Advocacy, gay marriage and the neoliberals’ religious zeal, the discourse of disbelief, on Peter Levenda and the fear of a witch hunt, Satanism & neoliberalism, serving the matrix unconsciously, the primary ideology, unconscious complicity, distinguishing between types of ritual abuse, pedophilia and occultism, Levenda again, Crowley as pedophile vs. Crowley as occult ritual abuser, Anton LaVey, Adam Parfrey & secular Satanism, giving one’s body up to Satan, the satanic drive to rebel, violence and binding rituals, the structure of torture, the body and the sacred, satanic ritual abuse as a community binding ritual, making the bodies in a group congruent through carnality, the prevalence of torture in modern narratives, abuse as a means of supplanting identity, creating maximum intensity to transcend identity, transcending flesh & blood, the equivalency of occultism with ritual abuse, God intoxication & satanic possession.
(part 2) … automatic disbelief and death awareness, death denial, religion, & science, death-as-entertainment, ritual sacrifice as a throwback, the bereavement industry, the progression of sacrifice towards the symbolic, binding secrets, consciousness & socialization, Eros & Thanatos, control over the body, the shadow community, individuation through violence, a temporary autonomous zone, the paradox of group individuating, individuation through surrender vs. individuation through violence, the support network for psychopaths, ancient cliques within late modernity, the primordial & predatory, the way of the savage, Marquis de Sade & everything is permitted, the body’s morality, the kernel of justification for ritual abuse, ancestral trauma, the context for understanding ritual abuse, listening to the constructed identity, disbelieving the past, the limits of the metaphor of DID (dissociative identity disorder), incoherent attachment, identity formation and the mother bond, self & society, depersonalization and derealization, the discontinuity of time, the compartmentalization of social selves, a jealous reality, understanding multiplicity, the psyche as community, the forward march of history, the double movement of modernity, surveillance & secrecy, the extended family that slays together.
Novem5er wrote:If a person was stabbed in the neck and then dropped to the ground, would there be a growing pool of blood?
...
Are there probably video surveillance on the CERN campus that could clear up any questions about who arrived and who left the scene (or carried a body off)?
Would that blood still be there the next morning? Or do you think the cultists would have brought mops and buckets to clean up afterward?
If a person just witnessed a crime (and honestly believed that there WAS a crime) wouldn't they call the police immediately instead of uploading a video to youtube?
MacCruiskeen wrote:The class aspect of this incident is particularly striking
MacCruiskeen wrote: The self-serving pretence that we know nothing and that we cannot possibly know anything is a particularly wearisome cliché and an obvious untruth.
brainpanhandler wrote:No, this video is a work of fiction showing a contrived scene. CERN and its on-site accommodation fills up with scientists from across the world coming to CERN as part of their work. Work at CERN can take place 24 hours a day, 365 days a year with shift work and data analysis. Persons that are authorised to access the CERN site sometimes let their sense of humour go too far, and that is what has happened on this occasion. The video was filmed from an office building; strict safety systems are in place to prevent any unauthorised access to technical and experimental facilities. CERN does not condone this kind of spoof, which breaches CERN’s professional guidelines, and is currently carrying out an internal investigation.
Is CERN's aim to prove that God does not exist?
No.
Will CERN open a door to another dimension?
CERN will not open a door to another dimension. If the experiments conducted at the LHC demonstrate the existence of certain particles it could help physicists to test various theories about nature and our Universe, such as the presence of extra dimensions. There is more information here.
Will CERN generate a black hole?
The LHC will not generate black holes in the cosmological sense. However, some theories suggest that the formation of tiny 'quantum' black holes may be possible. The observation of such an event would be thrilling in terms of our understanding of the Universe; and would be perfectly safe.
http://press.cern/backgrounders/cern-an ... edia#video
MacCruiskeen wrote:Note that a fair amount of preparation and rehearsal must have gone into this "ritual". Having the idea, recruiting the participants, getting the costumes (and the knife), arranging the choreography: Where & when do we meet and when do we get into costume? How do we avoid being seen by security guards or by colleagues working late? Where do we start? How quickly do we walk? Where does each participant stand, exactly? Who takes care of the knife? When does the stabber come over and demand the knife? When does the stabee remove her cloak? When and where, exactly, does she kneel and then lie down? Etc. - Then whatever happened afterwards, which we don't see, including their departure from the scene. All this has to be not just discussed but also prepared and rehearsed, at least a couple of times.
In short: It wasn't just some daft spur-of-the-moment idea immediately put into action by a bunch of drunken teenagers in the pub. It took considerable time and effort, and personal risk.
What on earth were they thinking of? They are not schoolkids. They are, at the very least, undergraduate visitors (or postgraduate employees?) at one of the most elite scientific institutions in the world.
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