IF ART THRIVES IN OPPOSITION... WHERE IS IT?

by **Rigorous Intuition** » Thu May 04, 2006 4:14 pm

Ah, but you don't. <a href="http://p216.ezboard.com/frigorousintuitionfrm10.showMessage?topicID=4088.topic">Anti-Flag thread here</a>.

by **HMKGrey** » Thu May 04, 2006 4:38 pm

Ah, yes, ANTI-FLAG. Point taken, Jeff. I was addicted to one of their albums a while back... I think it was Terror State? They seem to have the right idea: Good site, lots of networking to educate people. AND the songs speak up. That's what kills me. I'm a big believer in content. I think the actual content has to be the point, the message. There's no point writing soppy, useless love songs but then having a very compassionate "Join Amnesty now!" web site. People connect with primary content, not with marketing tools. That's what irks me about so many other bands. They actually know this. They know that their core message is what really matters and that's why the window dressing on web sites etc is just show. It won't lose them any sales but might gain them a few.

by **mxmendo** » Thu May 04, 2006 5:40 pm

can't pass up a chance to plug one of the greatest punk bands of all time - it's worth going back for the minutemen... Here's what David Rees of "Get Your War On" has to say: <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-rees/what-would-d-boon-do_b_12785.html">www.huffingtonpost.com/da...12785.html</a> D. Boon, who played guitar and sang in the Minutemen, a California political punk trio, died twenty years ago tonight. Since his untimely death, a hagiographic aura has enveloped D. Boon and the Minutemen. Indeed, D. Boon is widely considered a patron saint of American punk rock. But how great were the Minutemen, really? I've been thinking about that question a lot recently. Here is my answer: -The Minutemen were--are--the greatest punk band of all time. So there you go. But there's more: -The Minutemen's awesome, inexhaustible 1984 masterpiece, "Double Nickels on the Dime," is the greatest rock album of all time. -D. Boon's opening guitar lick on that album's "Two Beads At The End" is, simply, the most "God-DAMN, no he DIDN'T" punk rock guitar moment of all time. -D. Boon's guitar solo on "'99," from the album "What Makes A Man Start Fires," is the greatest guitar solo of all time. -Bassist Mike Watt and drummer George Hurley were the tightest, baddest, most in-the-pocket-and-out-of-bounds punk rock rhythm section of all time. Their performance on "What Makes A Man Start Fires," which careens from as-fast-and-furious-as-Paris-Hilton's-panties-dropping to as-buckled-down-and-funky-as-Darth-Vader-buttfucking-a-purple-Rolex, is the most convincing proof of this of all time. -The first time I heard the Minutemen--on a Saturday afternoon in 8th grade, when my friend lowered the stylus onto "Shit From An Old Notebook," and the song somersaulted out of his RadioShack speakers in an ecstasy of spasmodic guitar and drum fills--is the greatest "first time someone heard a band and their life changed for all time" of all time. -That song's jarring first line: "Let the products sell themselves / fuck advertising, commercial psychology / psychological methods to sell should be destroyed," is the greatest first line of a song of all time. -The band's political lyrics, printed on album covers without line breaks or capital letters, like James Frey channeling Noam Chomsky, are the greatest political lyrics of all time: "I saw some military hardware today they changed the color olive drab to yellow/brown/gray the color of our dead the color of our glory" -The band's other lyrics, many of which were combined with brief, angular melodies to create remarkably accurate approximations of what Western intellectual thought actually sounds like, are the greatest other lyrics of all time: "starting with the affirmation of man I work myself backwards using cynicism (the time monitor, the space measurer)" -The Minutemen's cover of Creedence Clearwater Revival's "Fortunate Son"--which is itself one of the greatest political songs of all time, but which is not quite as good as the Minutemen's version, because Mike Watt's bass line sounds so goddamn funk-ass amazing coming out of the stereo that you want to crap your pants and run around gurgling like Lewis Black--is the greatest cover of all time. -The photograph accompanying Spin magazine's posthumous 1986 tribute to Boon--a grainy gig photo in which Boon and Watt play acoustic guitars accompanied by Hurley on bongos in what looks like a church basement located 500 miles below the earth's surface and 10,000 miles away from Top 40 radio; an image which totally confounded my expectations of what "punk rock musicians" and "punk rock concerts" looked like; and which I taped to my locker at Culbreth Junior High so I could feel connected to this mysterious new American culture that lay beyond the Maginot Line of Bon Jovi and Jefferson Starship--is the greatest photograph of a punk band of all time. -The Minutemen's catalytic philosophy--that "punk is whatever we make it to be," that any group of kids could pick up instruments and make artistic, innovative, impossible music without worrying about cliques, categories, or condemnation; even working-class kids from San Pedro like Boon and Watt--is the greatest band philosophy of all time. -The 1,200 songs my friends and I recorded in my parents' basement after becoming fans of D. Boon and the Minutemen, and the happy memories of those years, are, for me, the most compelling argument for the power of the aforementioned philosophy of all time. -That my career as a political cartoonist literally began the night I asked myself "What would D. Boon do?" before clumsily trying to make the comic-strip equivalent of a Minutemen song--which therefore means I owe D. Boon my livelihood--is, for me, as a childhood worshipper of D. Boon, the greatest fact of all time. -That D. Boon's bassist and best friend, Mike Watt, still plays bass, writes music, and tours the country in a Ford Econoline van; and that Mike Watt ends his gigs with the exhortation to "start your own band, paint your own picture, write your own book"--twenty years after his friend's death broke his heart--and that Mike Watt continues to champion this D.I.Y. punk philosophy while many other punks have burnt out, grown soft, or given up; and that Mike Watt (I imagine) perseveres in part to honor his brilliant friend's brief life and the possibilities bequeathed to future musicians, artists, activists, punks and outsiders--is one of the greatest American success stories of all time. "Our band could be your life." D. Boon is dead. Long live D. Boon.

by **thoughtographer** » Thu May 04, 2006 7:20 pm

Amen. "A crooked stick will cast a crooked shadow."

by **HMKGrey** » Thu May 04, 2006 8:01 pm

Back in '89 there was a Brit band called The Stone Roses who's eponymous debut (released at the start of that summer) took the country by storm. Four lads, more of a gang than a band, they played Byrds'y, blue-eyed pop soul with great beats and lyrics of complete and utter self-belief. ["Kiss me where the sun don't shine. The past was yours but the future's mine."] They went from playing local Manchester pubs to playing their own festival in front of 70,000 people in less than a year and they were absolutely adored by people. There was nothing intrinsically rebellious about their music or their lyrics except for one thing. They were uniters. Everyone loved them. The dance kids could dance to them, the rock audience could get off on the musicianship (guitarist John Squire was rated as the most gifted guitarist of his generation by the press) and everybody could simply bask in the warm glow of the vibe they put out. They had great attitudes, refusing to play the game in any way. They turned down a support slot for the Rolling Stones, declaring that Mick and Co. should support them instead, they refused to hike ticket prices for their gigs and they gave interviews to magazines for the homeless ahead of the major Fleet Street dailies. They put out singles from the album including dizzying remixes and always two or three astounding new tracks. Often the new tracks would be so in demand that the radio stations would playlist every track instead of just the 'A' side. It was a phenomenon. There was a point in early 1990 when it really felt like our generation was on the cusp of its very own Beatles. Of course, some of this was fuelled by rave culture and ecstacy - The Roses made great music for ecstacy trips; sinewy, melodic, highly rhythmic and full of drama - but so much of it was simply their attitude and the very simple politics of their down to earth and everyman approach. And so, from nowhere, The Stone Roses became a sort of band of the people and, by definition, an enemy of the state. Their final singles during this phase were a double 'A' side triumph of a 9 minute rock/dance hybrid called 'Fools Gold' and a 4 minute pop explosion called 'What the World is Waiting For' and then another double 'A' side single with two blissed out rock tracks 'One Love' and another 9 minute epic called 'Something's Burning'. I've always believed that the titles alone were proof of both their genius and their insurrectionary leanings. And then came the drugs. It almost hurts too much to detail their descent in to fractious chaos... They signed to Geffen, took nearly four years to record a second album, the then-poorly received, but now-seen-as-another classic 'Second Coming' and then they split amidst accusations and denials of cocaine abuse and a record company that just kept giving them financial rope with which to hang themselves. It's one of the great tragedies of British music that The Roses never fulfilled their potential. It wasn't just the music, it was how it made us feel.  And that's why I think they were, ultimately, such a deliciously dangerous band. I've shared this slice of history here because a) I was motivated to by the excellent post about The Minutemen and b) because great music that can change the world doesn't always have to say that, it can just be made with that in mind, IMO. Truly great music, as truly great art, becomes a force of nature and, once unleashed, we the public get to shape it in the world and tap in to its true meaning and possibillities. And of the Roses? Well...  * In 2003, the music magazine NME voted their debut album the #1 greatest album of all time, ahead of Pixies and The Beach Boys. [3] * In June 2004, the British newspaper The Observer listed their debut album as the #1 best British album of all time (beating The Beatles and The Rolling Stones) after compiling the views of 100 newspaper staff and musicians. [4] * In 2006, NME voted their debut album the #1 British album of all time, beating out the Arctic Monkeys and the Beatles' Revolver.

by **steve vegas** » Thu May 04, 2006 8:31 pm

The Coup Rules! Boots Riley is a real live actual activist. I've been a fan since their first record "Kill My Landlord". Glad to see there's another fan here.

by **steve vegas** » Thu May 04, 2006 8:38 pm

I agree totally, one of D. Boon's lyrics talks about how Punk Rock changed his life in the same way that Bob Dylan had changed others lives, that's how I feel about D Boon and the Minutemen. Other bands may have been more "punk" or more topical but the Minutemen had heart and soul.

by **Chiaroscuro** » Fri May 05, 2006 5:03 am

Bush. Here is a more recent song from his lastest album Mmmm Mmmm Mmmm Mmmm Mmmm Mmmm Mmmm Mmmm Some humans ain't human Some people ain't kind You open up their hearts And here's what you'll find A few frozen pizzas Some ice cubes with hair A broken Popsicle You don't want to go there Some humans ain't human Though they walk like we do They live and they breathe Just to turn the old screw They screw you when you're sleeping They try to screw you blind Some humans ain't human Some people ain't kind You might go to church And sit down in a pew Those humans who ain't human Could be sittin' right next to you They talk about your family They talk about your clothes When they don't know their own ass From their own elbows Jealousy and stupidity Don't equal harmony Jealousy and stupidity Don't equal harmony Mmmm Mmmm Mmmm Mmmm Mmmm Mmmm Mmmm Mmmm Spoken: Have you ever noticed When you're feeling really good There's always a pigeon That'll come shit on your hood Or you're feeling your freedom And the world's off your back Some cowboy from Texas Starts his own war in Iraq Some humans ain't human Some people ain't kind They lie through their teeth With their head up their behind You open up their hearts And here's what you'll find Some humans ain't human Some people ain't kind Mmmm Mmmm Mmmm Mmmm Mmmm Mmmm Mmmm Mmmm Mmmm Mmmm Mmmm Mmmm And from John Fogerty DEJA VU (ALL OVER AGAIN) Did you hear 'em talkin' 'bout it on the radio Did you try to read the writing on the wall Did that voice inside you say I've heard it all before It's like Deja Vu all over again Day by day I hear the voices rising Started with a whisper like it did before Day by day we count the dead and dying Ship the bodies home while the networks all keep score Did you hear 'em talkin' 'bout it on the radio Could your eyes believe the writing on the wall Did that voice inside you say I've heard it all before It's like Deja Vu all over again One by one I see the old ghosts rising Stumblin' 'cross Big Muddy Where the light gets dim Day after day another Momma's crying She's lost her precious child To a war that has no end Did you hear 'em talkin' 'bout it on the radio Did you stop to read the writing at The Wall Did that voice inside you say I've seen this all before It's like Deja Vu all over again It's like Deja Vu all over again Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=chiaroscuro@rigorousintuition>Chiaroscuro</A> at: 5/5/06 3:07 am

by **Chiaroscuro** » Fri May 05, 2006 5:16 am

<a href="http://www.nola.com/frontpage/t-p/index.ssf?/base/news-5/1146291634240880.xml">www.nola.com/frontpage/t-...240880.xml</a> Well, the doctor comes 'round here with his face all bright And he says, "In a little while you'll be all right" All he gives is a humbug pill, a dose of dope and a great big bill Tell me, how can a poor man stand such times and live? He says, "Me and my old school pals had some might high times down here And what happened to you poor black folks, well it just ain't fair" He took a look around, gave a little pep talk, said, "I'm with you" then he took a little walk Tell me, how can a poor man stand such times and live? There's bodies floatin' on Canal and the levees gone to hell Martha, get me my sixteen gauge and some dry shells Them who's got got out of town And them who ain't got left to drown Tell me, how can a poor man stand such times and live? I got family scattered from Texas all the way to Baltimore And I ain't got no home in this world no more Gonna be a judgment that's a fact, a righteous train rollin' down this track Tell me, how can a poor man stand such times and live?

by **Sarutama** » Fri May 05, 2006 11:11 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>The Coup Rules! Boots Riley is a real live actual activist. I've been a fan since their first record "Kill My Landlord". Glad to see there's another fan here.<hr></blockquote> ABoslutely. All their albums are fantastic. "Steal This Album" is possibly the most underrated album of the 90's.

by **johnny nemo** » Fri May 05, 2006 5:46 pm

[QUOTE=HMKGrey] Heh-heh. Funny that punk has come up. I found myself digging some of my old UK punk discs out recently: Conflict, Crass, Flux of Pink Indians etc. There's some amazing stuff there but, of course, it's a bit dated. Most Americans who hear this stuff love it, BTW. It's faster and rawer than most US hardcore but the playing is always amazing and the lyrics are stinging about Thatcher and Raygun. Quite a bit of humor too. Crass, in particular, were a whole social movement when I was a kid. I'm sure that Ian Mckaye of Fugazi was hugely influenced by them. Still, it's a shame to have to go back so far in time to get that fix. It wasn't that long ago that there were posters and songs and t-shirts everywhere about Thatcher and Reagan condemning them as International terrorists. Perhaps I move in the wrong circles now but their crimes seem as nothing compared to this crowd and yet I don't seem to see or hear much at all. Perhaps I should now reiterate my oft made point that the internet is the greatest soporific ever invented.[/quote] Crass were a huge influence on The Dead Kennedys, who even made their own version of the Thatchergate Tapes that they called "Kinky Sex Makes The World Go Round". I was never a big fan of Crass, prefering the music of Subhumans and Oi Polloi, but I definitely noticed when the political punk died out at the end of the 80s. I got to see Oi Polloi when they toured the states in '89 or '90, and though they had changed directions musically (they went grindcore), they still had a political message and were still very concerned with the world situation. The pop-punk of the 90s, conversely, was almost completely devoid of any political messages or social commentary. IMHO, this was due to the fact that people in America were generally doing better under Clinton, thanks to the .net boom creating so many jobs. In fact, I don't think I've ever heard an anti-Clinton punk song, as opposed to the thousands of anti-Reagan songs, albums, Rock Againt Reagan gigs, etc. There was even a really good hardcore band called Reagan Youth. I'm very saddened to see the rise of so-called "conservative punks" who claim to miss Reagan and love W. In the 80s, right-wingers into punk gravitated towards the skinhead crowd. I find it especially disheartening since punk bands were the only bands I found that sang songs about conspiracies, such as when the Dead Kennedys mention the Trilateral Commission in the song "When Ya Get Drafted" and The Testors song "MK Ultra".

by **winsomecowboy** » Fri May 05, 2006 9:40 pm

Anyone remember brit rock poets, Attilla the stockbroker and John Cooper Clarke?

by **Rigorous Intuition** » Fri May 05, 2006 9:44 pm

I have his version of The Diggers Song/The World Turned Upside Down on RI radio. Bunch of his mp3s available on <a href="http://www.small-axe.com/attila/">this page</a>.

by **RB1** » Fri May 05, 2006 9:51 pm

Pink nails Dumbya between the eyes with this... <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eDJ3cuXKV4">www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eDJ3cuXKV4</a> PINK LYRICS "Dear Mr. President" (feat. Indigo Girls) Dear Mr. President Come take a walk with me Let's pretend we're just two people and You're not better than me I'd like to ask you some questions if we can speak honestly What do you feel when you see all the homeless on the street Who do you pray for at night before you go to sleep What do you feel when you look in the mirror Are you proud How do you sleep while the rest of us cry How do you dream when a mother has no chance to say goodbye How do you walk with your head held high Can you even look me in the eye And tell me why Dear Mr. President Were you a lonely boy Are you a lonely boy Are you a lonely boy How can you say No child is left behind We're not dumb and we're not blind They're all sitting in your cells While you pave the road to hell What kind of father would take his own daughter's rights away And what kind of father might hate his own daughter if she were gay I can only imagine what the first lady has to say You've come a long way from whiskey and cocaine How do you sleep while the rest of us cry How do you dream when a mother has no chance to say goodbye How do you walk with your head held high Can you even look me in the eye Let me tell you bout hard work Minimum wage with a baby on the way Let me tell you bout hard work Rebuilding your house after the bombs took them away Let me tell you bout hard work Building a bed out of a cardboard box Let me tell you bout hard work Hard work Hard work You don't know nothing bout hard work Hard work Hard work Oh How do you sleep at night How do you walk with your head held high Dear Mr. President You'd never take a walk with me Would you <a href="http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/pink/dearmrpresident.html">www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/p...ident.html</a>

by **HMKGrey** » Fri May 05, 2006 11:55 pm

Jeff said: <blockquote>Quote:<hr>I have his version of The Diggers Song/The World Turned Upside Down on RI radio.<hr></blockquote> Billy Bragg also covered this song on his Between the Wars EP in 1985. Glorious stuff.

IF ART THRIVES IN OPPOSITION... WHERE IS IT?

'it's a shame to have to go back so far'

Re: 'it's a shame to have to go back so far'

Re: 'it's a shame to have to go back so far'

Re: 'it's a shame to have to go back so far'

Re: 'it's a shame to have to go back so far'

Re: Poor lil' billionaires

Re: 'it's a shame to have to go back so far'

John Prine has been touring dedicating his Flag Decal song t

Springsteen pens lyrics for N.O.

Re: Poor lil' billionaires

Re: Poor lil' billionaires

I'm angry I'm angry

Attila the Stockbroker

Re: New Pink song "Dear Mr. President"

Re: New Pink song "Dear Mr. President"

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