Criteria of a Bad or Good Conspiracy Theory

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Re: Criteria of a Bad or Good Conspiracy Theory

Postby tapitsbo » Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:48 pm

If I know anything at all, a pyramid that includes collaboration and competition as part of its structures sounds exactly like part of the picture. Groupname For Grapejuice paints a good picture in their "Spaghetti Theory Of Conspiracy". I think that article is a "good" conspiracy theory.

There's enough co-ordination across territories that a staggered introduction of of policies by a nucleus that isn't super messy in structure but may have overlapping cogs and hinges seems obvious.

There's not much secretive, on the surface of it, about the bodies that use glib buzzwords like "global governance". But their influence is easily measurable by folks here and elsewhere are using it as a hefty metrestick to understand more complex situations.

In the present-day USA it doesn't stetch my imagination much to believe that identical, as well as competing forces may want to pressure people towards armament and disarmament at the same time.

In short, in my humble opinion, nuance doesn't always or even usually rule out a "they", although the edges of TPTB are surely pretty fuzzy. (The kernel does appear a touch more concrete.)

As far as low-information muscle goes, we both know this is a demographic that isn't about to get its toy armaments taken away anywhere anytime soon. I hope you share my pity pangs for these fellows' marginalization as I share yours for the haplessly imprisoned.

While we are talking about the USA I think the message of the VISUPVIEW blogs American Dream used to post was most interesting, despite its understandable bias and omissions: on the one hand the author told a tale about competing deep state blocs in a protracted stuggle, on the other hand they were presented as nestled within one another concentrically like Russian dolls. That's a fruitful contradiction to mull over. Some say the interactions at these levels are simply unfathomable, but I think otherwise, how do you feel about that kind of puzzle?

While we're at it, what first drew me into this board was a discussion about the "Deep State" plot device of Peter Dale Scott. For all his seeming virtues, I still think it is almost Rumsfeldian in its ability to swing a laser pointer from a visible iceberg of fortified power (inevitably warning us about the danger of judging the "depth" of this power) to a labyrinth of plausibly deniable and hardly discernable denizens of the demi-monde. I'm suspicious of the phrase, to put it mildly. These machinations, I mean the grist for the conspiracy theory mill, do protrude in many places, I'm sure many of their aspects truly are 2deep4me too, though.

Was the term "deep state" memetically engineered to make groundhogs who poke their heads out of its surface - and even keep them there - come off as squeaky clean? I'm thinking of a world-view in which intelligence agents, violent crime bosses, and exploitative business kingpins stick to their side of the aisle while feted scholars, journalists, scientists, seers, and an assortment of other parties who make up the warp to the weft of the former categories are assumed to be noble and uncontaminated by any power plays worthy of note.

Speaking of horses' mouths, Kissinger's "permanent establishment" does make for an interesting counter-term.
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Re: Criteria of a Bad or Good Conspiracy Theory

Postby Sounder » Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:56 pm

The following is from an Anthony Sutton pdf that deals with the education conspiracy.

http://www.rense.com/general96/SuttonSEC_SOC.sml.pdf

Finally, a point on methodology. The reader will remember
from Memorandum One (Volume One) that we argued the most
"general" solution to a problem in science is the most acceptable
solution. In brief, a useful hypothesis is one that explains the most
events.
Pause a minute and reflect. We are now developing a theory
that includes numerous superficially unconnected events.

For example, the founding of Johns Hopkins University, the introduction of Wundtian educational methodology, a
psychologist G. Stanley Hall, an economist Richard T. Ely, a
politician Woodrow Wilson—and now we have included such
disparate events as Colonel Edward House and the U.S. Naval
Observatory. The Order links to them all. . . . and several hundred
or thousand other events yet to be unfolded.

In research when a theory begins to find support of this
pervasive nature it suggests the work is on the right track.
So let's interpose another principle of scientific methodology.
How do we finally know that our hypothesis is valid? If our
hypothesis is correct, then we should be able to predict not only
future conduct of The Order but also events where we have yet to
conduct research. This is still to come. However, the curious reader
may wish to try it out. Select a major historical event and search for
the guiding hand of The Order.
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: Criteria of a Bad or Good Conspiracy Theory

Postby brekin » Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:10 pm

brekin » Fri Mar 11, 2016 2:54 pm wrote:What exactly constitutes a good vs. bad conspiracy theory?

I would say that any theory that relies primarily, and especially solely on the below "work in progress list" is probably, Bad.
Now, bear in mind the claim of the theory itself could actually be true.
I mean, even crazy people can hit on some truths, but have nothing but gibberish and delusions as supporting evidence.
The point is the crazy person is not going to convince anyone else of the true claim if they are trafficking in evidence, arguments, and speculations that isn't going to help the claim.

Obviously, the criteria below, are tentative, experimental and open to debate, modification, and additional entries.
And if others have time to put in what they think is the criteria for a Good conspiracy theory, that would be great.

Again, I don't think a theory is bad just for having any or all of the below, it is just when they rely primarily or solely on the below as argument or evidence to prove or convince that the theory is correct. Nor is this to dissuade people from gut feelings or speculation. I've had a shady feeling about Tony Scott's death, but knowing all I have to explore it would be some form of the below, I haven't proposed anything. But that doesn't mean it has stopped me from wondering.

1. Numerology.
I think numerology is interesting and mathematically there are probably numerous cycles and rhythms that effect, influence and cause untold number of events which can/could possibly be expressed mathematically. But you can do anything with dates and numbers, especially once you start piling on operations and assigning meaning to certain numbers, 3 means this, 7 means this, etc. Yes, numbers do have meaning, even culturally assigned ones, that probably influence things and how people interpret things but I think a conspiracy theory that relies on a combination of assigning meaning and doing numerous orders of operation to massage dates, addresses or other numbers involved in an event or related to a person is building a weak theory.

2. Evidence of things not seen.
Many theories build a case by hammering away on something that can't be unproven because "it is hidden". An example would be something like the missing double twin. So and so, had a twin who dies at birth. Or does he? So every reported uncharacteristic behavior, every sudden change in weight in a photo, every bad haircut in a photo, is example of the hidden twin being trotted out. Or a better, more lame, example would be so and so is really a reptilian overlord who has scaly lizard legs, which we never see because he never wears shorts. This can be extrapolated where the conspiracy is so airtight because the very existence of the perpetuators and their crimes are all unseen, unknowable excepting one or two dimensional or tactical breadcrumbs to build a mash potato mountain out of.

3. 7000 degrees of Kevin Bacon
So and so is an X because their Uncle's cousins, roommates, best friend's grandmother was Rommel's tailor. You know what I'm saying? Just as in every King's family tree is a slave and in every Slave's tree a King, we all have someone we are related to or associated with in some way tied to something nefarious. Sure, if you are a Koch brother then that is something, heck even if you are a Koch cousin, nephew, caddie, or long lost relative that is something, but if you are of the Kocsh family of Delaware who share a Great, great, great, great, uncle with them, then things get kind of dissipated. Also, geographic, occupational, military, school ties do mean something, but not always. Not everyone who goes to Yale is Skull and Bones, not that they wouldn't want to be per se, but just that alone doesn't mean they are dirty.

4. The Creative, Compelling Narrative
Sometimes a researcher or writer creates a compelling narrative teased from some facts and by using leading questions or suggestive criticism that pokes holes in an accepted, standard narrative to where the new critical, compelling narrative is so persuasive it has to be true. This may be, and can often be, done in a genuine and sincere attempt to find the real truth. The problem is the source material they are dealing with, may be not completely true to begin with, famous people have incredibly managed, incomplete, and hagiographic stories created or reminisced about. The compelling narrative though "fills the holes" explaining inconsistencies, unbelievable strokes of good and bad luck, or even the very reason for someones rise/fall. Because the new compelling narrative, one, explains any missing details or mystery, and two, provides a hidden solution, it acts as enlightenment in the form of super gossip which is more titilating to ponder. The Beatles couldn't have just been that good.

5. The Super Silly String Theory
Everything is explained away in the theory because everything is connected to the theory. People die, governments and countries fall, civilizations die out, but the theory keeps chugging away through the centuries, millennia, because those involved never take their eye of the conspiracy ball and have it all locked down and a contingency plan for everything. This makes the theory basically a creation myth where all the complexity of the world is simplified down to where the conspiracy theory is something even Cro-Magnon Man can wrap his head around it. "Zog Man Run World". For the theory to be so simple it has to be so all encompassing and powerful to where it becomes less a conspiracy than a basic law of nature, which probably explains why it shares the attribution and power of natural calamities to supernatural actors as did early man, earthquakes, floods, tsunamis, etc just don't happen, but Zog makes it so. Not to say that man isn't getting/hasn't gotten to the point where they can't manufacture/influence/exploit the effects these to some point, its just sometimes/often/frequently Nature is doing its own thing.

6. The Psychotic Semiotic Scrabble Game

Any theory that relies on hidden or reattributed meanings, but is either incredibly crude or dizzyingly obtuse, requiring Sigmund Freud and Umberto Eco, to break down the supposed real meaning of say, a movie poster, over a week long conference, is probably not giving the intended effect the person thinks on the public. Especially when the actual movie right next to it is providing that same "hidden" message in the buff for two hours straight which the public is eagerly and enthusiastically seeking out to affirm the message. Of course, subliminal messages, redirection, propaganda, etc. exists and is operating constantly, but deeper and more powerful methods of covert meaning making probably require more finesse and sophistication then a crude scrabbling of words and images that are tied to root meanings that the public is either unaware about from the beginning or the very creation of redirections would point to their existence. I mean how many teens do you think know the word MKULTRA now because it is a constant, reliable prop in countless action and thriller films now? Why would it have to be mangled and reconstituted in other films and mediums when it is recycled each week?

7. All the Puppets are Innocent

No one just goes on a shooting spree, kills themselves or dies anymore. The very fact of them being involved in such a thing points to a conspiracy or cover up. The evidence is that the primary event happened and you have to prove that it wasn't a cover up. Lack of evidence of it not being a cover up is further proof that it was a cover up. Unless there is full video of the event and the days leading up to the event, a video confession, years of blog entries, miles of forensic, ballistic and psychological evidence then they didn't do it. And if there is all that evidence, that just proves they were mind controlled, brain washed. Not to say that there hasn't been set up patsies and Manchurian candidates to some degree, and there can't continue to be, it just can't be assumed if such an event happens that by default they are so.


I think the only thing I would add now is:

8. The Conspiracy was/was not alluded to in the Mainstream Press positively or negatively

It seems in the past a conspiracy not being reported on, was only more evidence that it was happening. You know "none dare call it conspiracy" especially those in the media. Now however, conspiracy theories are alluded to "neutrally" or "as some are saying" by public persons and officials as almost of a way of disseminating them. The media will often report on the conspiracy or a public person being a conduit, thereby circulating it, three to four steps removed. And, of course, often the media will report on the conspiracy, as an example of the danger of believing in conspiracies (too much). Without further evidence, it is hard to determine whether just the reporting of a conspiracy (positively, negatively, "neutrally" (which is really stealth positively)), is a good conspiracy theory. As compared to reporting and investigating on what the conspiracy is actually talking about, which then brings up data points and evidence that can be considered and even reexamined by others.
If I knew all mysteries and all knowledge, and have not charity, I am nothing. St. Paul
I hang onto my prejudices, they are the testicles of my mind. Eric Hoffer
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Re: Criteria of a Bad or Good Conspiracy Theory

Postby brekin » Wed Dec 07, 2016 11:44 pm

Another one:

9. Because the problem is widespread and prevalent, but taboo, reprehensible, and criminal, there must be a connecting web or central controlling agency

Drug use seems to need a large network of drug users connected to suppliers, connected to producers who have some degree of influence or connection to controlling powers. A conspiracy would seem to exist then of some magnitude, in some forms, that allows the drug trade to exist. Although there probably are many parts of the network that is unaware of the whole network or even would spring up autonomously, at some level of oversight some high authority malfeasance has to take place (bribing of judges, border agents, law enforcement, etc) even on a sporadic and semi-dependent basis. But something like date rape, though, institutional and cultural influencers aside, would not seem to exist as a conspiracy (weeding out possible and limited serial or frat type occurrences) on a larger scale. There are institutional factors that probably allow or even encourage the prevalence of it and hamper its stopping, and all too common cover it up in more than a few cases, "a conspiracy of silence" of sorts, but it would be hard to argue there is a large conspiracy orchestrating and carrying out many or even a small minority of total date rapes. (Yes, there are many isolated conspiracies of pairs and small groups who conspire to do so, but they don't seem to be linked to a larger conspiracy. Which isn't to say they can't or couldn't be. I mean the fraternity system could be based on this for all we know. And there could even be a "unconscious conspiracy" operating in which institutions and groups of people put into operation and maintain structures that create such scenarios more frequently, but that is a whole other level of analysis.)

There is nothing, though, proving that if something is prevalent there is a greater conspiracy. Bank robbing could be linked to a larger conspiracy, but that is hardly likely as the reward is more direct and the less people that know the better. Human trafficking, though, could also exist on a small, limited scale, but to get to some magnitude it would have to become a much bigger, big C, conspiracy than a limited one. North Korean escapees into China seem to become absorbed into human trafficking enterprises that have to have some governmental acceptance for example.
If I knew all mysteries and all knowledge, and have not charity, I am nothing. St. Paul
I hang onto my prejudices, they are the testicles of my mind. Eric Hoffer
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Re: Criteria of a Bad or Good Conspiracy Theory

Postby brekin » Sun Dec 11, 2016 3:48 pm

10. Critique, questions of, and doubt towards the theory are seen as hostility to the truth and further proof of the theories legitimacy.

All theories require some faith and belief. But the wider gulf between faith and and the facts, the greater the chance of magical thinking. Many bad conspiracy theories absorb critique, doubt and calls for more: clarity, evidence, facts, logic, etc. as further proof that "people can't handle the truth", "they don't want to believe this is the way it is", etc. Often people's doubt and request for more proof or evidence is seen as playing in to the hands of those behind the conspiracy, if not passively or actively supporting it. The greater the supposed hostility towards the theory, the more the theory possibly relies on faith and belief, and not facts and evidence that often speak for themselves.

11. Calls for a impossible amount and material of evidence to disprove a theory.

The flip side of 10. and related to2. Evidence of things not seen. This is where one has a theory and everyone else must come up with evidence that it isn't true. It is assumed most important events have evidence, media, paper trails, associated with it and the people involved in it. One simply has to say "I think X" and make everyone else wade through material to disprove you theory, when the specific evidence may not exist which pertains to that theory. So, in effect the Non-Evidence of things not seen proves ones theory when people are unable to supply the specific evidence you request. Its like believing in Bigfoot but challenging everyone else to come up with photos of someone putting on a big foot costume to prove it is a hoax. There may not be any photo. So, are you still right? 10 and 11, seem to often work together. Shaky theories need more belief and faith, when challenged and unable to supply facts and evidence, they push it on those who challenge the theory to go and disprove the theory, often with requests for evidence that is leaps more substantive then they have to currently believe in the theory.
If I knew all mysteries and all knowledge, and have not charity, I am nothing. St. Paul
I hang onto my prejudices, they are the testicles of my mind. Eric Hoffer
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Re: Criteria of a Bad or Good Conspiracy Theory

Postby American Dream » Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:45 pm

This is a valuable thread- thanks for your efforts, brekin!


https://www.madinamerica.com/2017/04/un ... ell-being/

Unusual Beliefs and Mental Well-Being
By Rev. Dr. Steven Epperson April 9, 2017

He stared at the sun with one eye for as long as he could bear, secretively cast horoscopes and performed countless experiments in the alchemical arts. Writing over a million words in spidery script, he strove obsessively to crack prophetic codes predicting the end of the world which he believed were hidden in ancient scripture, and used a novel form of math of his own creation to interpret the esoteric meaning of the texts. In his youth, he sometimes wished his stepfather dead and his mother too: in a rage he threatened to burn their house down around them. Sometimes he wished himself dead. In his thirties his hair was already gray, falling to his shoulders and usually uncombed. He stayed in his chambers for days at a time, careless of food. Colleagues learned to leave him undisturbed at meals and to step around diagrams he scratched with a stick in the gravel walkways. They described him as silent and alienated, with flopping socks and broken-down shoes.

* * * * *

She was certain that she had been abducted by aliens who had implanted her with a chip that they used to monitor her thoughts and activities. Annoyed by this invasion of her privacy, she fashioned a hat made of tin foil which, she believed, disrupted the link between the monitoring device and the alien observers. This strategy seemed to work; everything was fine when she wore the cap indoors, but stepping outside, everyone looked and made fun of her and told her to her face that she was crazy. She increasingly became reclusive and withdrawn from the world.

* * * * *

Losing himself in philosophical and mystical monologues, he would make bizarre, fanciful leaps of the imagination. A short uncouth figure, stout, unshaven, not overly clean… he walked in with a frayed notebook under his arm. He was miserably poor. Asked what he wanted, he said a pittance to live on so that he might pursue his research. And the notebook? It was filled with math theorems, of a like never seen before. He claimed they had come to him in dreams through the agency of the goddess Namagiri who wrote the equations on his tongue. “An equation,” he said, “has no meaning unless it expresses a thought of God.”

* * * * *

Though addicted to opium and alcohol, and reduced to wandering the street in search of food, he dressed like a dandy and generated endless schemes and bizarre plans to bring himself wealth and fame. Meanwhile, though hardly read or understood by anyone, he devoted heroic energies to his writing, probing the foundations of semiotics, cosmology, logic and mathematics and general philosophy.

* * * * *

He believed in the rationality and self-interest of lending institutions to protect shareholders’ equity, staunchly opposed regulation of derivatives trading and credit default swaps, and had total confidence in the self-correcting power of free markets and mortgage lending.

* * * * *

Sensing that he had come to a crucial junction in his life and undergoing a spiritual crisis in the summer before leaving home for university, he started reading an off-beat book of scripture and prayed. Later, he described what happened: it was like the top of his head came off, and he was filled with what felt like warm light and an affective kind of intelligence. He was convinced that the book was true. He would go to university as a religious person; he believed that a personal God had heard and answered his prayers.

* * * * *

Unusual beliefs? Deluded people? Paranoid or psychotic reaction to irrational and unsubstantiated fears, to transitional, uncertain, stress-filled moments in life? Do we know for certain which beliefs and actions are normal, unusual, and harmful?

And if we were to be confronted by one of these individuals and situations, how would we respond? Shame that she is a member of the family? Embarrassed because he’s a friend? Do we call 911? Try to talk them out of their beliefs? Appeal to reason, evidence, common sense, one’s own story, by calling forth our own values and convictions? Should we refer them to mental health teams? Later, do we nod our heads knowingly, sympathetically, when we learn that they have been diagnosed with a mental illness, hospitalized, medicated, eventually put on disability?

The long-haired, unkempt, reclusive alchemist who obsessed over Biblical apocalyptic prophesy? Isaac Newton, posthumously extolled as the archetypical figure of the Advent of the Age of Reason.

The mystic on whose dreaming tongue a Hindu goddess inscribed fantastic equations? His named was Srinivasa Ramanujan, the Indian genius whose extraordinary contributions revolutionized 20th and 21st century mathematics.

The opium addicted, mania-fueled, melancholic food-stealing dandy who obsessively wrote philosophical tomes to a phantom and uncomprehending audience? C.S. Peirce, now revered as one of the greatest philosophers of the 19th-20th centuries.

The staunch believer in the self-correcting power of free markets and mortgage lending who presided over the collapse of the American economy in 2007-8? Alan Greenspan, former Chairman of the Federal Reserve.

The university-bound kid with the weird scriptures and goofy religious experience? Me at age seventeen.

Who’s deluded? Who’s possessed with unusual beliefs? And whose beliefs, if expressed and put into practice publicly, actually cause the greatest harm? Are unusual beliefs and attendant behaviors always unwarranted and meaningless? Who gets to decide what is abnormal or normal, and based upon what kind of evidence, really?

I’ve been thinking a lot about these questions and their consequences. It’s hard going there; it’s difficult for me, anyway, because when I slow down long enough to consider them—to really open up my heart and mind to other people and their beliefs—it can trigger some real confusion and a realization of just how often, culturally, we can look away from, defer and avoid tragedy and isolation, loss and despair, poverty and hubris. It’s no wonder we don’t feel brave enough, patient enough, or sane enough ourselves to deal with it all sometimes. And thus we push them—the people and the questions—out of our minds, get on with life, and pass them on to professionals to deal with.

But let’s think about this. Consider the vignettes of unusual beliefs I shared with you earlier. Consider the Hopi Indians of the American Southwest who practice the Snake Antelope Dance to this day. In their world, it is perfectly acceptable and reasonable for an individual to dance with rattlesnakes in his mouth at designated times and in ritual settings because of a worldview, a landscape and beliefs where these serpents are viewed as messengers to the gods—divine beings who live in the San Francisco Mountains to the west of Hopi mesa-top villages and who hold the power to send or withhold life-giving rain.

By virtue of priestly authority, a Roman Catholic priest presides over the transubstantiation of the elements of bread and wine into the Real Presence of the body and blood of Christ. To those who believe, who grow up Catholic, and in homes and families where these activities take place and are accepted as eminently plausible, such beliefs and rituals make sense. The same can be said of Ramanujan, the Indian math genius—in his strictly observant Hindu home, there was nothing improbable about a Hindu goddess appearing in his dreams and writing math theorems on his tongue.

These things make sense to those who believe because of what students of religion call “plausibility structures.” That is, beliefs and practices make sense because they are taught from birth in the home, affirmed by parents, neighbours and other adult authorities, and upheld by churches, temples, synagogues, scriptures, history, hymn singing, religious buildings and institutional bureaucracies. Plausibility structures are not confined to religion and to what someone may think is irrational beliefs. Worldviews are also conferred and upheld by the plausibility structures of university education, academic degrees, secular ideologies, and professional cultures and standards. Alan Greenspan’s “master of the universe” view of rational self-interest, de-regulation and the self-correcting power of free markets made eminent sense to him because he was surrounded by people who shared his belief, hailed him as an economic sage and doted on his every word—until the economy collapsed. Then he confessed to being “distressed” and in a “state of shocked disbelief.” His plausibility structure was crumbling. Too bad for us, and a little too late.

Soviet psychiatrists, abetted by the machinery of the State, forcibly hospitalized and chemically lobotomized thousands of Soviet dissident citizens in the 70s and 80s despite the outrage of many in the West. Why? Because of the plausibility structure of Marxist-Leninist workers’ utopia and its so-called scientific materialism. Anyone who dissented from this, from the logic of history, who jeopardized their happiness, their careers and family, had to be crazy—and thus they were diagnosed by compliant psychiatrists with “paranoia” and something called “sluggish schizophrenia,” the symptoms of which included “reform delusions,” “perseverance,” “projects for the benefit of mankind,” and “the struggle for truth.” Unusual beliefs indeed! Lock ‘em up in a hospital and drug the nonsense out of them!

Viewed from the outside, the beliefs of Hopi snake dancers, the Hindu mathematician Ramanujan, Alan Greenspan, and Roman Catholics may look unusual indeed. Bill Maher, the comic and social critic, said that a Catholic “has to be schizophrenic to go about life normally for six days a week, only on the seventh to go to church and believe that when drinking the communion wine one is drinking the blood of a 2000-year-old space god.” And before I get too smug about it, while Unitarian principles and practices may seem totally plausible to me, fundamentalist Christians may see us a neo-pagan, earth-worshipping satanic cult. Martin Luther King Jr. decided he couldn’t be a Unitarian because we are “too sentimental concerning human nature” and that we “leaned to false optimism.”

To be frank, I see little essential difference between the Mormon, Sikh, and Orthodox Jewish practice of wearing religious undergarments, of men in turbans, fezzes and yarmulkes, nuns in habits and women in hijabs, or of individuals who don tinfoil caps to disrupt attempts to read their private thoughts, and those clad in Brooks Brothers suits, Boss and Gucci designer clothes and underwear, who drive around in BMWs and Benzes. Each expresses deeply held needs, values and beliefs supported by personal experience, social context, economic class, and plausibility structure. Each comports himself in ways that align with a worldview he embraces and others would, on principle, avoid. Each dresses distinctively in order to remind herself of who she is and that which she finds meaningful in life—what they fear, what they welcome, in order to deal with the uncertainties, needs, trials, indignities, and pleasures of living in a complex world.

I can imagine that belief in alien abduction could be an understandable response to traumas like extended viewings of Fox News, or being shipped off to boarding and residential schools, or being plopped down in the lap of a terrifying stranger with a long white beard, dressed in a ridiculous red outfit who keeps laughing “ho, ho ho!” over and over.

I can well imagine that paranoia could be an understandable response if I was a young man, especially of colour, between the ages of 18-30, who, when he steps out into streets studded with surveillance cameras, knows—knows in ways undreamt of by others—that he is of special, prejudicial interest to those policemen who keep looking at him as they cruise by.

And speaking of race: black and Asian people, according to one report from the UK, and working class Mexican women in the US, are all 50% more likely to be diagnosed as paranoid and schizophrenic than are whites. If you are in a social position characterized by powerlessness and the threat of victimization, if you are poor and living alone in a substandard housing, it may be functional to imagine you are being followed and oppressed. It may be functional to believe and hope that you have a messianic solution to the problems of the world you face day-in-day-out—for you see the Alan Greenspans in charge of the world, and know it’s going to take more power to change things than what you possess alone.

You can see where I am going with this. What was improbable, and what’s most important for me in the story of Ramanujan, the Indian mathematician, is that G. H. Hardy, a Cambridge University math professor, didn’t dismiss Ramanujan as a demented crank. Hardy actually read Ramanujan’s unsolicited letters from India filled with fantastic, unprecedented equations, and invited the young, self-taught customs clerk from Madras to England, to Cambridge.

That is, he listened—he did not try to argue Ramanujan out of his unusual beliefs; instead, he listened and learned and marveled. He patiently sat with Ramanujan for days and months to decipher and make meaning of his theorems. He helped Ramanujan, the devout Hindu, to cope with living in a strange European city by finding ingredients and shops that could cater to his unusual, strictly vegetarian diet, and to track down out-of-the-way places where Ramanujan could continue his ritual practices and worship.

But then, perhaps, it took someone like Hardy, a closeted homosexual, a committed atheist and someone who came from a lower middle class background, to appreciate and not dismiss Ramanujan’s fantastic story. They were both outsiders in a world of High Anglicanism, aristocratic privilege, and sexual respectability.

Let me repeat this: Hardy accepted Ramanujan’s reality and helped him to live with it.

A growing body of research and practice is showing that the most effective, humane and mutually transformative way to help someone deal with unusual beliefs and experiences is not to deny, argue, institutionalize or drug them out of their perceived reality. Rather, it is to invite the person to talk about their beliefs and experiences, and actively listen without judging them or trying to modify their beliefs. Find out about their reality, and then look for ways to help them cope more effectively with things as they perceive them.


Rev. Dr. Steven Epperson has been the Parish Minister of the Unitarian Church of Vancouver in British Columbia since 2002. Prior to entering professional ministry, he worked as a university professor in the history of religions, and as a museum curator. He’s married to Diana Girsdansky; they have four children and three grandchildren.





ON EDIT: Fuk'n Spellcheck!
Last edited by American Dream on Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Criteria of a Bad or Good Conspiracy Theory

Postby brekin » Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:49 pm

Thanks for the bump and your contribution.
If I knew all mysteries and all knowledge, and have not charity, I am nothing. St. Paul
I hang onto my prejudices, they are the testicles of my mind. Eric Hoffer
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Re: Criteria of a Bad or Good Conspiracy Theory

Postby MacCruiskeen » Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:55 pm

JackRiddler » Sat Mar 12, 2016 9:04 pm wrote:The problem with this site is that so many think it is a "conspiracy theory" site.

[...]


True. Or a "woo" site. Both terms are equally stupid, useless, counterproductive and irredeemable.

But it's certainly not the main or the only problem. Not in 2017.
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Re: Criteria of a Bad or Good Conspiracy Theory

Postby Luther Blissett » Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:11 pm

brekin » Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:44 pm wrote:Another one:

9. Because the problem is widespread and prevalent, but taboo, reprehensible, and criminal, there must be a connecting web or central controlling agency

Drug use seems to need a large network of drug users connected to suppliers, connected to producers who have some degree of influence or connection to controlling powers. A conspiracy would seem to exist then of some magnitude, in some forms, that allows the drug trade to exist. Although there probably are many parts of the network that is unaware of the whole network or even would spring up autonomously, at some level of oversight some high authority malfeasance has to take place (bribing of judges, border agents, law enforcement, etc) even on a sporadic and semi-dependent basis. But something like date rape, though, institutional and cultural influencers aside, would not seem to exist as a conspiracy (weeding out possible and limited serial or frat type occurrences) on a larger scale. There are institutional factors that probably allow or even encourage the prevalence of it and hamper its stopping, and all too common cover it up in more than a few cases, "a conspiracy of silence" of sorts, but it would be hard to argue there is a large conspiracy orchestrating and carrying out many or even a small minority of total date rapes. (Yes, there are many isolated conspiracies of pairs and small groups who conspire to do so, but they don't seem to be linked to a larger conspiracy. Which isn't to say they can't or couldn't be. I mean the fraternity system could be based on this for all we know. And there could even be a "unconscious conspiracy" operating in which institutions and groups of people put into operation and maintain structures that create such scenarios more frequently, but that is a whole other level of analysis.)

There is nothing, though, proving that if something is prevalent there is a greater conspiracy. Bank robbing could be linked to a larger conspiracy, but that is hardly likely as the reward is more direct and the less people that know the better. Human trafficking, though, could also exist on a small, limited scale, but to get to some magnitude it would have to become a much bigger, big C, conspiracy than a limited one. North Korean escapees into China seem to become absorbed into human trafficking enterprises that have to have some governmental acceptance for example.


Side note: when one requires a courier to deliver analog information to another person, it is often useful to suggest the delivery is something elicit, and to let them fill in the blanks and think that it's related to drugs. This is of course dependent upon their own moral values and sense of adventure, but it works.
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Re: Criteria of a Bad or Good Conspiracy Theory

Postby brekin » Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:11 pm

MacCruiskeen » Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:55 pm wrote:
JackRiddler » Sat Mar 12, 2016 9:04 pm wrote:The problem with this site is that so many think it is a "conspiracy theory" site.

[...]

True. Or a "woo" site. Both terms are equally stupid, useless, counterproductive and irredeemable.
But it's certainly not the main or the only problem. Not in 2017.


Do share what you think the site is (sparing us what you think it "should" be which you've more than shared already in other threads).
If I knew all mysteries and all knowledge, and have not charity, I am nothing. St. Paul
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Re: Criteria of a Bad or Good Conspiracy Theory

Postby MacCruiskeen » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:42 pm

It is a resurgent Discussion Board, where people of good faith will once again engage with each other politely and constructively in the absence of trolls and spammers.

Here, tovarich, have some vodka. Is Russian drink. Is good, is good.

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Re: Criteria of a Bad or Good Conspiracy Theory

Postby brekin » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:04 pm

12. The anti-conspiracy conspiracy theory

These are "conspiracies of hope" where disregarding the evidence, or even the consideration of looking at the evidence, the possibility of conspiracy is dismissed out of hand because entertaining such a thought conflicts with ones preferred world view. Such "dangerous thinking" could even lead to institutional collapse, whole sale slaughter and wide spread destruction by even working through the hypothesis. Stupid conspiracy theories can usually be dealt with by discussing and examining the evidence (when their promoters can actually provide any) but The anti-conspiracy conspiracy theory is harder to deal with because as most people believe in progress, equality, justice, even sanity, any theory which touches on the possible collusion of such beliefs in a conspiracy can trigger the The anti-conspiracy conspiracy theory as a defense against ones representation of the world being put in jeopardy. Proponents of The anti-conspiracy conspiracy theory can believe in other conspiracy theories, probably often do to a great extent, but will most likely not even consider a theory that conflicts with their other core theories and chosen "heroes". Having to do more with character and style than content and evidence, one conspiracy theorists conspiracy theory is anothers anti-conspiracy theory.
If I knew all mysteries and all knowledge, and have not charity, I am nothing. St. Paul
I hang onto my prejudices, they are the testicles of my mind. Eric Hoffer
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Re: Criteria of a Bad or Good Conspiracy Theory

Postby JackRiddler » Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:46 pm

Actually, things have gotten a lot simpler. Here's the flowchart:

1. Does it have Russians in it?

YES. It is not a conspiracy theory.
It is an international crisis and you are a fool if you are not paying attention.

NO. It is a conspiracy theory.
You are a useful idiot helping Hitler by spreading Fake News, as an infectious agent dangerous to children and puppies you must be quarantined from further social discourse.

.
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The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

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Re: Criteria of a Bad or Good Conspiracy Theory

Postby Iamwhomiam » Thu May 04, 2017 12:46 pm

Let's see what an authority on conspiracies had to say about it. Doing their part, the NYT chimes in, looky here:

https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/politics/100000005070130/conspiracys-grip.html
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