Where is UFOlogy at in 2015?

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Re: Where is UFOlogy at in 2015?

Postby guruilla » Thu May 17, 2018 1:29 pm

What an odd conflation of ideas/beliefs

It's not possible to avoid mind-matter interaction - I don't know where you got the notion I was against it!

However if you mean using will to manipulate physical reality, yes I am by and large against it, at least for myself and those around me, and insofar as I am convinced that it has unseen side effects (just like pharma meds) that almost invariably tend to cause problems larger and stickier than the ones they solve.

This may not apply to more primitive cultures with a less developed or trauma-generated ego perspective on things, i.e., who are more naturally in harmony with life and death realities and not (so) hard-wired to seek power, status, and control as an unconscious defense against reality.

People who practice rituals to get what they want tend to have all manner of misfortune manifesting later on down the track; why? because if you try and harness the power of your own unconscious and place it in service of the ego, it is like bringing a gorilla home and getting it to move rocks around in your garden. Next thing you know it is running amok through your living quarters and a simple No isn't going to suffice.

BTW, POI was written before my sojourn into trad. metaphysics and discovery of Upton, so I doubt you'll find what you're dreading there.
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Re: Where is UFOlogy at in 2015?

Postby identity » Thu May 17, 2018 8:00 pm

^
Your very way of framing it as "using will to manipulate physical reality" (btw, isn't that what I do when I lift a fork to my mouth?) would suggest that your acquaintance with practitioners of MMI is limited mainly to those emerging from (UK-based?) Crowleyesque/Thelemite/Chaos Magic milieus, whose goals often do seemingly tend to center around becoming more affluent and getting laid (or at least gaining access to better drugs...), rather than those unassuming, non-publicity-seeking individuals who utilize the principles of MMI to effect healing cures of one kind or another, typically for free or by donation.

BTW, POI was written before my sojourn into trad. metaphysics and discovery of Upton, so I doubt you'll find what you're dreading there.


That's reassuring, though there's still the matter of the use of Freudian—and, to a somewhat lesser extent, Jungian—concepts to deal with...
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Re: Where is UFOlogy at in 2015?

Postby guruilla » Thu May 17, 2018 9:23 pm

I suppose every identity has its limits

;)
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Re: Where is UFOlogy at in 2015?

Postby identity » Fri May 18, 2018 1:33 am

guruilla » Thu May 17, 2018 5:23 pm wrote:I suppose every identity has its limits

;)


One might even say that each and every identification is nothing but limitation...
We should never forget Galileo being put before the Inquisition.
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Re: Where is UFOlogy at in 2015?

Postby guruilla » Fri May 18, 2018 2:44 pm

Yes

I didnt address this before:

identity » Thu May 17, 2018 8:00 pm wrote:^
your acquaintance with practitioners of MMI is limited mainly to those emerging from (UK-based?) Crowleyesque/Thelemite/Chaos Magic milieus, whose goals often do seemingly tend to center around becoming more affluent and getting laid (or at least gaining access to better drugs...), rather than those unassuming, non-publicity-seeking individuals who utilize the principles of MMI to effect healing cures of one kind or another, typically for free or by donation..

What black vs white magick? :farmer:

The issue (for me) isn't about whether the goals are seemingly noble or base, but how congruent the conscious intentions are with the unconscious motivations. Usually the correlation is pretty slim.

But sure, it's a spectrum; I have used a few psychic healers in my time; the question is, how do they get their results (not a question that really demands our consideration when we raise a fork to our mouths)?

Since we don't actually know (any more than we know who or what is generating alien abduction experiences), nor do we know what sort of strings may be attached or costs may be incurred.

Prisoner of Infinity isn't an anti-psychism tract; it presents a body of evidence that places psychism in a new context; it's up to individual readers/practitioners to decide what course of action to take based on this evidence.

My primary realization, however, is that psychic phenomena, experience, or potential does not necessarily equate with spirituality in any way at all. The psychic realm is no more inherently spiritual than the physical realm is. Both can be manipulated and counterfeited; but since both the psychic realm and the spiritual dimensions are invisible to our physical senses, we conflate the two and so become easy marks for anyone who has developed some psychic abilities or familiarity (who may also be marks), or for any ectoplasmic predators or parasites that reside there (Jinns, demons, etc).

This is all fairly basic, traditional stuff; but you would never know it, with all the current "spiritual" fads in energy healing, divination, shamanic ritual, etc, etc.
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Re: Where is UFOlogy at in 2015?

Postby guruilla » Fri May 18, 2018 5:30 pm

Le-Vender Strikes Back
Some of you may be aware that I will be giving a presentation at this year’s Contact in the Desert on the subject of the conspiracy theories swirling around the group founded by Tom DeLonge: the To The Stars Academy (TTSA).

The members of TTSA and its associated consultants and colleagues have been very reserved when it comes to responding to some of the critiques aimed at them from the UFO “community” and I have followed their lead so far.

But as someone who was involved with this project since the very beginning – from about November of 2014 – I have been amused at times (and frustrated at others) at the misinformation and disinformation spread by its self-proclaimed opponents.

When you were there, and a witness to the events in question, and then have to listen to people who were not there insisting on their version of the “truth”, it gets pretty surreal. One would think that Ufologists in particular would be sensitive when it comes to attacking people on the basis of what they feel is a competing belief system, but I guess irony is not their strong suit.

My interest, though, is less in the actual falsehoods themselves (and the individuals who disseminate them) than it is in the phenomenon of the UFO conspiracy theory subculture, and the fact that Ufology feels threatened by the acceptance of the reality of UFOs now going mainstream, and by the support given to this effort by scientists, engineers, and military and intelligence professionals.

(Okay, now that I think about it, that does sound a little too reasonable and measured…)

So, actually, what I am going to do is tell it like it is. You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free … bitches!

In addition to my presentation on TTSA, I will be giving a workshop on “alien communication” from the point of view of the authors of the medieval grimoires. If you’ve ever wondered why L. Ron Hubbard started talking about space aliens even though he started his cultish career as a ceremonial magician, this is the workshop for you. (If you ever wondered why Joseph Smith, Jr. did the same thing a century earlier, come on down!)

You want to be prepared when the new Jack Parsons television series drops this June, don’t you? Unlike those who provide all sorts of strategies for sitting out in the desert and waiting for aliens to show up, I will be explaining how other cultures handled the same situation in a more proactive way.

In related news, my novel Dunwich has been published. It is the sequel to The Lovecraft Code, and it goes in a new direction. It amplifies the themes of the first novel, but takes them into some dangerous areas. Alien abduction and hybrids; genetic modification; pagan pedophilia; piracy on the high seas; the rather bizarre evocation of a goddess; and a human trafficking ring involving the use of children for ritual magic on a military base. All that, and the Necronomicon, too. What’s not to like? It’s a novel replete with easter eggs and sly allusions, and anyone who has followed this field for any length of time will be amused, intrigued, and ultimately informed. Pizzagate? Seriously? Learn something about real occultism and how it works, and then tell me your pizza theories. Dunwich is all about this subject. Think Dennis Wheately meets Donald Keyhoe in an underground brothel in Cambodia during Tet … and their bicycles broke.

In addition, the second volume of Sekret Machines (subtitled Man) has been completed and is being fact-checked by some experts before we send it off to the printers. A.J. Hartley’s fiction sequel will be available this Fall; my own Sekret Machines: Man shortly thereafter.

So if you were wondering where I was and why I have been silent, now you know.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php? ... 2276609499
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Re: Where is UFOlogy at in 2015?

Postby elfismiles » Sat May 19, 2018 9:49 am

Peter Levenda wrote:

So, actually, what I am going to do is tell it like it is. You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free … bitches!


:tongout
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Re: Where is UFOlogy at in 2015?

Postby identity » Sat May 19, 2018 8:28 pm

The issue (for me) isn't about whether the goals are seemingly noble or base, but how congruent the conscious intentions are with the unconscious motivations. Usually the correlation is pretty slim.

You do mean, "Usually the correlation (in my own case) is pretty slim," right? Or are you actually saying that you are an authority on the (presumed) unconscious motivations of millions of human beings? You may certainly have found reason to question the motivations of a small number of persons of your acquaintance, but that may simply be saying more about the company you keep and/or the unfortunate social circumstances in which you have happened to find yourself than about the "unconscious motivations" of people (across thousands of years and thousands of miles as well as thousands of cultural and subcultural backgrounds and affiliations) whom you have never met.

But sure, it's a spectrum; I have used a few psychic healers in my time; the question is, how do they get their results (not a question that really demands our consideration when we raise a fork to our mouths)?

Interestingly, I have heard the same argument from Fundamentalist Xians, who will readily agree that such and such "paranormal" phenomenon is undoubtedly "real"; the question is, WHO is behind it? They, like you, certainly seem convinced, but why should their closed-minded conviction be allowed to shut off all open-minded investigation of the phenomena in question by those who are by no means convinced?

My primary realization, however, is that psychic phenomena, experience, or potential does not necessarily equate with spirituality in any way at all.

Well, obviously.

This is all fairly basic, traditional stuff; but you would never know it, with all the current "spiritual" fads in energy healing, divination, shamanic ritual, etc, etc.

You mean, like the latest (insert unique branding adjective) "Enlightenment" weekend seminar or month-long residential retreat? ;)

You appear to quote Upton approvingly in the following (from your Traditional Metaphysics and the True Religious - Encountering Charles Upton):

Nonetheless, the psychic plane is not exclusively demonic, otherwise we could not receive divine guidance in dreams, nor could physical miracles occur, since every influence from the spiritual realm must pass through the psychic realm before it can come into material reality. But because this is so, it is very difficult to tell whether a psychic or anomalous physical manifestation originates on the psychic or the spiritual plane. Nonetheless there is a profound difference in level between an act of magic (whether for the purpose of healing or harming) which emanates from the psychic plane, and a miracle originating on the Spiritual plane. Psychic or magical or shamanic practices are “technologies,” instances of willful intervention by human beings or psychic entities. Miracles are manifestations of the Spirit, the eternal truth and love of God, on the psychic and material levels.


I assume the divine-in-origin and therefore legitimate miracles he refers to are ones that would have manifested within the Abrahamic/Jewish-Xian-Muslim tradition? If so, this is rather ironic given the divisiveness, hatred, violence, murder, etc., for which this supposedly holy tradition is responsible, and the good case that can be made that, in fact, demons/entities—sometimes seemingly related to what we would now call UFOs—have themselves manifested the lights/voices/thoughts/prophecies/etc. experienced as emanating from a divine source (in order to deceive humanity and to sow the seeds of strife and discord in order to further their own nefarious agenda?).

At the very least, one would—I would think—want to distance oneself from such a tradition where the unconscious motivations/unknown influences are questionable indeed, and where the actual consequences/results/outcomes here on Earth (despite the pretty talk of angels, heaven, a compassionate God, eternal truth, miracles, etc.) betray what might easily be construed as having a so-called demonic or satanic origin.
We should never forget Galileo being put before the Inquisition.
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Re: Where is UFOlogy at in 2015?

Postby elfismiles » Sat May 19, 2018 11:25 pm

:angelwings: :fawked: :twisted:




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Re: Where is UFOlogy at in 2015?

Postby identity » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:21 am

Greg Bishop talks with Jeremy Corbell and George Knapp: Hunt For the Skinwalker

Jeremy Corbell’s upcoming film based on George Knapp’s groundbreaking book of the same name was the subject of our interview for this edition of Radio Misterioso. The film has generated a great deal of buzz because of the controversial subject.

We went into depth about the history of the property known as “Skinwalker Ranch” and the various owners, incidents, research and high strangeness that have been swirling around the location since the early 1990s. The takeaway from the years of research conducted at the site seems to indicate that there is no one theory or mechanism that can account for all the strange activity observed. From cattle mutilations, eerie lights, shadowy figures, and paraphysical animals, to events and activities that seemed to trigger the phenomena, Corbell and Knapp report that no data-driven report or columns of numbers could solve the puzzle.

My guests also took time to answer some of the rumors that they say have gotten out of hand, such as stories of human experimentation and the idea that anything physical was ever found that could be examined in a laboratory. We discussed the little-known debate between the scientists who were originally assigned to do the first systematic research at the property, and their regrets about roads not taken. We also spoke about the history of government-sponsored research in the area, as well as the new owner of the property and his efforts to continue the work started by former owner Robert Bigelow.

I believe that you will hear things in this interview that have not been discussed elsewhere or previously.


Great discussion for anyone interested in the phenomena reported to have taken place on the Skinwalker Ranch:

http://radiomisterioso.com/audio/Knapp_Corbell_9_10_18.mp3
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in a published letter to Nature
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Re: Where is UFOlogy at in 2015?

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:47 am

Are there any blogs keeping tabs on this Levenda / Blink 182 concept album or do I have to pay attention myself?
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Re: Where is UFOlogy at in 2015?

Postby Elvis » Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:28 pm

Here's the actual scientific paper, read it if you can: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1810.11490.pdf

CNN uses less math; video & links there:

Interstellar object may have been alien probe, Harvard paper argues, but experts are skeptical

By Steve George and Ashley Strickland, CNN
Updated 1:43 PM ET, Tue November 6, 2018


(CNN) A mysterious cigar-shaped object spotted tumbling through our solar system last year may have been an alien spacecraft sent to investigate Earth, astronomers from Harvard University have suggested.

The object, nicknamed 'Oumuamua, meaning "a messenger that reaches out from the distant past" in Hawaiian, was discovered in October 2017 by the Pan-STARRS 1 telescope in Hawaii.

Since its discovery, scientists have been at odds to explain its unusual features and precise origins, with researchers first calling it a comet and then an asteroid before finally deeming it the first of its kind: a new class of "interstellar objects."

A new paper by researchers at the Harvard Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics raises the possibility that the elongated dark-red object, which is 10 times as long as it is wide and traveling at speeds of 196,000 mph, might have an "artificial origin."

"'Oumuamua may be a fully operational probe sent intentionally to Earth vicinity by an alien civilization," they wrote in the paper, which has been submitted to the Astrophysical Journal Letters.

The theory is based on the object's "excess acceleration," or its unexpected boost in speed as it traveled through and ultimately out of our solar system in January.
"Considering an artificial origin, one possibility is that 'Oumuamua is a light sail, floating in interstellar space as a debris from an advanced technological equipment," wrote the paper's authors, suggesting that the object could be propelled by solar radiation.

The paper was written by Abraham Loeb, professor and chair of astronomy, and Shmuel Bialy, a postdoctoral scholar, at the Harvard Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics. Loeb has published four books and more than 700 papers on topics like black holes, the future of the universe, the search for extraterrestrial life and the first stars.

The paper points out that comparable light-sails exist on Earth.

"Light-sails with similar dimensions have been designed and constructed by our own civilization, including the IKAROS project and the Starshot Initiative. The light-sail technology might be abundantly used for transportation of cargos between planets or between stars."

In the paper, the pair theorize that the object's high speed and its unusual trajectory could be the result of it no longer being operational.


Image
Meet 'Oumuamua, the first observed interstellar visitor to our solar system

"This would account for the various anomalies of 'Oumuamua, such as the unusual geometry inferred from its light-curve, its low thermal emission, suggesting high reflectivity, and its deviation from a Keplerian orbit without any sign of a cometary tail or spin-up torques."

'Oumuamua is the first object ever seen in our solar system that is known to have originated elsewhere.

At first, astronomers thought the rapidly moving faint light was a regular comet or an asteroid that had originated in our solar system.
Comets, in particular, are known to speed up due to "outgassing," a process in which the sun heats the surface of the icy comet, releasing melted gas. But 'Oumuamua didn't have a "coma," the atmosphere and dust that surrounds comets as they melt.

Multiple telescopes focused on the object for three nights to determine what it was before it moved out of sight.

Going forward, the researchers believe we should search for other interstellar objects in our sky.

"It is exciting to live at a time when we have the scientific technology to search for evidence of alien civilizations," Loeb wrote in an email. "The evidence about `Oumuamua is not conclusive but interesting. I will be truly excited once we have conclusive evidence."
Is this just fantasy?

Other mysteries in space have previously been thought of as signs of extraterrestrial life: a mysterious radio signal, repeating fast radio bursts and even a strangely flickering star, known as Tabby's Star.

The mysterious radio signal was later determined to be coming from Earth, the repeating fast radio bursts are still being investigated, and new research suggests that Tabby's Star is flickering because of dust -- rather than being an alien megastructure.
So what does that mean for 'Oumuamua?

"I am distinctly unconvinced and honestly think the study is rather flawed," Alan Jackson, fellow at the Centre for Planetary Sciences at the University of Toronto Scarborough, wrote in an email. "Carl Sagan once said, 'extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence' and this paper is distinctly lacking in evidence nevermind extraordinary evidence."

Jackson published a paper in the Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society in March that suggests that 'Oumuamua came from a binary star system, or a system with two stars.

Jackson said the spectral data from 'Oumuamua looks like an asteroid or a comet, while that of a solar sail would look very different. The new paper proposes that the sail has been coated in interstellar dust, which obscures its true spectral signature.

"Any functional spacecraft would almost certainly retract its solar sail once in interstellar space to prevent damage," Jackson said. "The sail is useless once away from a star so there would be no reason to leave it deployed. If it was then deployed again on entering the solar system it would be pristine. Even if it was left deployed the dust accumulation would be primarily on the leading side like bugs on a windshield."

'Oumuamua also travels in a complex tumbling spin, but a functioning solar sail would have a much smoother path and obvious radiation-driven acceleration, Jackson said. Even the spinning motion of a damaged solar sail would be far more strongly influenced by the radiation forces than seen, he explained.

The solar sail would also be thinner than the authors of the new paper describe, he said.

"The sail on IKAROS is 7.5 micrometres thick with a mass of only 0.001g/cm^2, 100 times lower than their estimate," Jackson said. "While a combined spacecraft and sail could have a higher net mass the sail itself needs to be extremely light. That would also significantly change their estimate for how far it could travel before falling apart -- though as I said, I doubt any functional craft would leave its sail deployed in interstellar space."

Solar sails also can't change course after being launched, so if 'Oumuamua was truly a solar sail, it would be traceable back to its origin. So far, there is no obvious origin for 'Oumuamua.

"Beyond that, it becomes difficult to trace because of the motion of the stars and any hypothetical alien civilisation would face the same issue in charting a course that long in the first place (aside from arguments about whether they would want to launch a craft they knew would not reach its destination for many millions of years)," Jackson said.

Concerning 'Oumuamua, there is little evidence because astronomers weren't able to observe it for long, which opens it up to speculation in the name of science.

"The thing you have to understand is: scientists are perfectly happy to publish an outlandish idea if it has even the tiniest 'sliver' of a chance of not being wrong," astrophysicist and cosmologist Katherine Mack tweeted. "But until every other possibility has been exhausted dozen times over, even the authors probably don't believe it."

Katie Mack
@AstroKatie

The thing you have to understand is: scientists are perfectly happy to publish an outlandish idea if it has even the tiniest *sliver* of a chance of not being wrong. But until every other possibility has been exhausted dozen times over, even the authors probably don’t believe it.
6:45 PM - Nov 5, 2018
1,092
284 people are talking about this


But it's important to distinguish that the researchers who wrote the new paper have expertise in solar sails, so they're suggesting that 'Oumuamua could be like a solar sail, said Coryn Bailer-Jones of the Max Planck Institute for Astronomy. Bailer-Jones' paper on possible origin sites for 'Oumuamua was accepted by the Astrophysical Journal in September.

"Aliens would only come into all of this if you accept their assumption (and that's what it is; it doesn't come from the data) that 'Oumuamua is sail-like, and also assume nothing like that can be natural," Bailer-Jones wrote in an email. "In fact, they only mention the word 'alien' once, when they mention in passing that 'Oumuamua might have been targeted to intercept the solar system.

"I have no problem with this kind of speculative study," Bailer-Jones added. "It's fun and thought-provoking, and the issue of whether there is alien life out there is really important. But the paper doesn't give any evidence for aliens (and the authors don't claim that, I should note.)"


https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/06/health/o ... index.html
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Re: Where is UFOlogy at in 2015?

Postby Elvis » Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:29 pm

Elvis » Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:28 pm wrote:Here's the actual scientific paper, read it if you can: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1810.11490.pdf

CNN uses less math; video & links there:

Interstellar object may have been alien probe, Harvard paper argues, but experts are skeptical

By Steve George and Ashley Strickland, CNN
Updated 1:43 PM ET, Tue November 6, 2018


(CNN) A mysterious cigar-shaped object spotted tumbling through our solar system last year may have been an alien spacecraft sent to investigate Earth, astronomers from Harvard University have suggested.

The object, nicknamed 'Oumuamua, meaning "a messenger that reaches out from the distant past" in Hawaiian, was discovered in October 2017 by the Pan-STARRS 1 telescope in Hawaii.

Since its discovery, scientists have been at odds to explain its unusual features and precise origins, with researchers first calling it a comet and then an asteroid before finally deeming it the first of its kind: a new class of "interstellar objects."

A new paper by researchers at the Harvard Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics raises the possibility that the elongated dark-red object, which is 10 times as long as it is wide and traveling at speeds of 196,000 mph, might have an "artificial origin."

"'Oumuamua may be a fully operational probe sent intentionally to Earth vicinity by an alien civilization," they wrote in the paper, which has been submitted to the Astrophysical Journal Letters.

The theory is based on the object's "excess acceleration," or its unexpected boost in speed as it traveled through and ultimately out of our solar system in January.

"Considering an artificial origin, one possibility is that 'Oumuamua is a light sail, floating in interstellar space as a debris from an advanced technological equipment," wrote the paper's authors, suggesting that the object could be propelled by solar radiation.

The paper was written by Abraham Loeb, professor and chair of astronomy, and Shmuel Bialy, a postdoctoral scholar, at the Harvard Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics. Loeb has published four books and more than 700 papers on topics like black holes, the future of the universe, the search for extraterrestrial life and the first stars.

The paper points out that comparable light-sails exist on Earth.

"Light-sails with similar dimensions have been designed and constructed by our own civilization, including the IKAROS project and the Starshot Initiative. The light-sail technology might be abundantly used for transportation of cargos between planets or between stars."

In the paper, the pair theorize that the object's high speed and its unusual trajectory could be the result of it no longer being operational.


Image
Meet 'Oumuamua, the first observed interstellar visitor to our solar system

"This would account for the various anomalies of 'Oumuamua, such as the unusual geometry inferred from its light-curve, its low thermal emission, suggesting high reflectivity, and its deviation from a Keplerian orbit without any sign of a cometary tail or spin-up torques."

'Oumuamua is the first object ever seen in our solar system that is known to have originated elsewhere.

At first, astronomers thought the rapidly moving faint light was a regular comet or an asteroid that had originated in our solar system.
Comets, in particular, are known to speed up due to "outgassing," a process in which the sun heats the surface of the icy comet, releasing melted gas. But 'Oumuamua didn't have a "coma," the atmosphere and dust that surrounds comets as they melt.

Multiple telescopes focused on the object for three nights to determine what it was before it moved out of sight.

Going forward, the researchers believe we should search for other interstellar objects in our sky.

"It is exciting to live at a time when we have the scientific technology to search for evidence of alien civilizations," Loeb wrote in an email. "The evidence about `Oumuamua is not conclusive but interesting. I will be truly excited once we have conclusive evidence."

Is this just fantasy?

Other mysteries in space have previously been thought of as signs of extraterrestrial life: a mysterious radio signal, repeating fast radio bursts and even a strangely flickering star, known as Tabby's Star.

The mysterious radio signal was later determined to be coming from Earth, the repeating fast radio bursts are still being investigated, and new research suggests that Tabby's Star is flickering because of dust -- rather than being an alien megastructure.
So what does that mean for 'Oumuamua?

"I am distinctly unconvinced and honestly think the study is rather flawed," Alan Jackson, fellow at the Centre for Planetary Sciences at the University of Toronto Scarborough, wrote in an email. "Carl Sagan once said, 'extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence' and this paper is distinctly lacking in evidence nevermind extraordinary evidence."

Jackson published a paper in the Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society in March that suggests that 'Oumuamua came from a binary star system, or a system with two stars.

Jackson said the spectral data from 'Oumuamua looks like an asteroid or a comet, while that of a solar sail would look very different. The new paper proposes that the sail has been coated in interstellar dust, which obscures its true spectral signature.

"Any functional spacecraft would almost certainly retract its solar sail once in interstellar space to prevent damage," Jackson said. "The sail is useless once away from a star so there would be no reason to leave it deployed. If it was then deployed again on entering the solar system it would be pristine. Even if it was left deployed the dust accumulation would be primarily on the leading side like bugs on a windshield."

'Oumuamua also travels in a complex tumbling spin, but a functioning solar sail would have a much smoother path and obvious radiation-driven acceleration, Jackson said. Even the spinning motion of a damaged solar sail would be far more strongly influenced by the radiation forces than seen, he explained.

The solar sail would also be thinner than the authors of the new paper describe, he said.

"The sail on IKAROS is 7.5 micrometres thick with a mass of only 0.001g/cm^2, 100 times lower than their estimate," Jackson said. "While a combined spacecraft and sail could have a higher net mass the sail itself needs to be extremely light. That would also significantly change their estimate for how far it could travel before falling apart -- though as I said, I doubt any functional craft would leave its sail deployed in interstellar space."

Solar sails also can't change course after being launched, so if 'Oumuamua was truly a solar sail, it would be traceable back to its origin. So far, there is no obvious origin for 'Oumuamua.

"Beyond that, it becomes difficult to trace because of the motion of the stars and any hypothetical alien civilisation would face the same issue in charting a course that long in the first place (aside from arguments about whether they would want to launch a craft they knew would not reach its destination for many millions of years)," Jackson said.

Concerning 'Oumuamua, there is little evidence because astronomers weren't able to observe it for long, which opens it up to speculation in the name of science.

"The thing you have to understand is: scientists are perfectly happy to publish an outlandish idea if it has even the tiniest 'sliver' of a chance of not being wrong," astrophysicist and cosmologist Katherine Mack tweeted. "But until every other possibility has been exhausted dozen times over, even the authors probably don't believe it."

Katie Mack
@AstroKatie

The thing you have to understand is: scientists are perfectly happy to publish an outlandish idea if it has even the tiniest *sliver* of a chance of not being wrong. But until every other possibility has been exhausted dozen times over, even the authors probably don’t believe it.
6:45 PM - Nov 5, 2018
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But it's important to distinguish that the researchers who wrote the new paper have expertise in solar sails, so they're suggesting that 'Oumuamua could be like a solar sail, said Coryn Bailer-Jones of the Max Planck Institute for Astronomy. Bailer-Jones' paper on possible origin sites for 'Oumuamua was accepted by the Astrophysical Journal in September.

"Aliens would only come into all of this if you accept their assumption (and that's what it is; it doesn't come from the data) that 'Oumuamua is sail-like, and also assume nothing like that can be natural," Bailer-Jones wrote in an email. "In fact, they only mention the word 'alien' once, when they mention in passing that 'Oumuamua might have been targeted to intercept the solar system.

"I have no problem with this kind of speculative study," Bailer-Jones added. "It's fun and thought-provoking, and the issue of whether there is alien life out there is really important. But the paper doesn't give any evidence for aliens (and the authors don't claim that, I should note.)"


https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/06/health/o ... index.html
“The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.” ― Joan Robinson
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Re: Where is UFOlogy at in 2015?

Postby Pele'sDaughter » Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:09 am

Well, you know, it's much safer to speculate about mystery objects in space than it is to try and figure out the nature of the multitude of unknowns flitting around in our atmosphere and near space. :wink:
Don't believe anything they say.
And at the same time,
Don't believe that they say anything without a reason.
---Immanuel Kant
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Re: Where is UFOlogy at in 2015?

Postby Luther Blissett » Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:37 pm

I really wish there were more accessible details about ‘Oumuamua because I find the subject endlessly fascinating. The path of trajectory looks like nothing I’ve ever seen, at least in an illustrated map of the solar system. This leads me to believe that some of the information out there is just speculative, hoaxy, or straight misinformation.
The Rich and the Corporate remain in their hundred-year fever visions of Bolsheviks taking their stuff - JackRiddler
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