A Need to know basis.

[thoughtographer]

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>This kind of shit is the reason I stopped posting at this board.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>It'll probably be the stupid emoticons that do it for me.<br><br>Trust me: I've never posted here before under another name and don't "get" your stupid in-jokes any more than you "get" me. <p><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"A crooked stick will cast a crooked shadow."</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--></p><i></i>

[bvonahsen]

my 2 cents - and... treading lightly<br><br>It think it is important to base knowledge claims on facts, on evidence and solid reasoning.<br><br>on the other hand...<br><br>My understanding of rigourous intuition is a reliance on... well, intuition as one path to knowledge. Deliberatly putting the word "rigorous" in the title implies a blend of the two. A marriage of heaven and hell if you will. I kind of like that. Damn hard to pull off though.<br><br>So it seems natural to me that there would be some tension between the demand for rigor and free associating intuition. What I like about the blog is that tension. The play between flights of fancy and the attempts to catch them, hold them, turn them around and look at them from all sides. It takes a lot of work.<br><br>These days... the more I try to look into "the nature of things" the less and less I feel I know. Read up on the latest research into math or cosmology see if you don't agree. Frankly, I don't know what to think anymore, but it sure is an interesting ride. I have to give it that. <p></p><i></i>

[thoughtographer]

Thanks for sharing your views.<br><br>P.S. - If Jeff ever wants me to stop posting here, all he has to do is ask me. No banning will be necessary; I might be a cynic, but I'm not a total asshole. <p><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"A crooked stick will cast a crooked shadow."</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=thoughtographer>thoughtographer</A> at: 4/11/06 11:27 am<br></i>

[bvonahsen]

You're welcome. I think you should continue to push for, umm, whatever you're pushing for. I'm not such a heavy reader here that I know everyone's position.<br><br>Myself, I like hard sci-fi and logical arguments, but I also like anything that challenges my belief set. I'm an artist so the free floating spontaneous associations in the blog are attractive to me.<br><br>I also think that those who push for conspiracy, alternate realities and so on, should own up when they're wrong. I do, so should they. Not spinning yet another flight of fancy. You can tell when people are off by their behavior. The more aggressive and divorced from reality someone's behavior is the less I regard what they have to say.<br><br>Finally, there have been some Nazi's posting here. I thought that was not ok. I really hate to see that crap. (But maybe they've already been banned, if so, please disregard.) <p></p><i></i>

[thoughtographer]

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>You're welcome. I think you should continue to push for, umm, whatever you're pushing for. I'm not such a heavy reader here that I know everyone's position.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>I'm not really pushing for anything in particular, but yeah -- I'll keep doing my thing here as long as I can stand it or get distracted with something more worth my while.<br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Myself, I like hard sci-fi and logical arguments, but I also like anything that challenges my belief set. I'm an artist so the free floating spontaneous associations in the blog are attractive to me.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>I just post here because I was attracted to the topics on Jeff's blog, read it for a while and figured I'd jump into the discussion. I didn't expect the almost complete lack of a collective sense of humor that I find around here, but I can't really fault people for that. I have no problem sticking to facts for the sake of research, but I tend to get a little rambunctious when most topics degenerate into people bashing their heads against "wedge issues", like the events of September 11, 2001, etc. I'm trying to resurrect my own site with a few of my friends, but I haven't succeeded in getting anything like that too far off the ground since my BBS days. Maybe it will go somewhere, you know -- assuming "Armageddon" doesn't happen in the interim while I'm coding or anything. If my site does go anywhere, then people can look forward to me having less time to post here.<br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I also think that those who push for conspiracy, alternate realities and so on, should own up when they're wrong. I do, so should they. Not spinning yet another flight of fancy. You can tell when people are off by their behavior. The more aggressive and divorced from reality someone's behavior is the less I regard what they have to say.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>That's totally valid, but guess I tend to lean in the opposite direction. The less sense someone makes, the more I want to understand where their views originate. The people who seem to think they have everything all figured out are less interesting to me, because they tend to stick to a small subset of beliefs, making them less prone to stray and make mistakes. Mistakes are interesting! I think everyone should admit they're wrong once a day, even if they don't believe they are!<br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Finally, there have been some Nazi's posting here. I thought that was not ok. I really hate to see that crap. (But maybe they've already been banned, if so, please disregard.)<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>I noticed elsewhere you saying that you're from Minnesota. If I were you, I'd be more concerned about the so-called Neo-Nazis in your own "backyard" than anything that manages to make its way past the gatekeepers here. That said, yeah -- it sucks that they're out there, and they shouldn't be given a free ride anywhere if it's avoidable. Sadly, it comes with the territory. Always has, always will. <p><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"A crooked stick will cast a crooked shadow."</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=thoughtographer>thoughtographer</A> at: 4/11/06 9:42 pm<br></i>

[bvonahsen]

"I'd be more concerned about the so-called Neo-Nazis in your own "backyard" than anything that manages to make its way past the gatekeepers here."<br><br>Sadly, I know that all to well. Minn seems to be a breeding ground for them. <p></p><i></i>

[thoughtographer]

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Sadly, I know that all to well. Minn seems to be a breeding ground for them.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>It sure does seem that way, though I don't let that color my opinion of all Minnesotans. <p><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"A crooked stick will cast a crooked shadow."</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--></p><i></i>

[CyberChrist]

i think someone flew a 757 into this thread.<br><br>What a wreck. <p>--<br>CyberChrist<br>http://www.hackerjournal.org<br>My brain is hung like a horse.</p><i></i>

[thoughtographer]

You're a laugh riot. It was auto-wrecked. Can you talk about anything without mentioning September 11, 2001? <p><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"A crooked stick will cast a crooked shadow."</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--></p><i></i>

[anotherdrew]

oh hell.<br><br> slimmouse, I had you confused with someone else...<br><br>who's tag starts with s<br><br> nevermind <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=anotherdrew>anotherdrew</A> at: 4/17/06 9:51 pm<br></i>

[anotherdrew]

hey thoughtographer - I once heard of a guy who claimed to be able to expose pictures on film "with the power of his mind" a "real" "thoughtographer". ever hear of that? I wonder if it was a standard stage magic trick or what? Would be back 50-100 years ago when this guy was operating. <p></p><i></i>

[stickdog99]

I don't see why the events of 9/11 are any sort of a wedge issue.<br><br>Even if you wholeheartedly believe that 19 ragtag Arabs led by a guy on a dialysis machine in a cave halfway around the world pulled off the biggest, most complicated and most successful terrorist strike in Western history all by themselves against the best efforts of the trillion dollar a year mil/intel/justice/customs/law enforcement organizatons of the most powerful nation in world history, whose interests are you serving by promulgating this notion and cautioning those who speculate otherwise? <br><br>See, this is what I don't get about people who spend hours day after day trying to make sure others don't "go overboard" on "wedge issues" like the events of 9/11. Because even if it <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>wasn't</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> an inside job, we're far better off treating it as if it were -- because, despite the dubious official "narrative" of that day, the "9/11 changes everything" mantra has been successfully used to justify:<br><br>1) an insane invasion and occupation,<br>2) an Orwellian state of neverending warfare,<br>3) an all-out assault on our Bill of Rights and our Constitutional separation, balance and oversight of powers,<br>4) rampant and bald faced war profiteering,<br>5) a huge increase in mil/intel/security expenditures,<br>6) an insane doctrine of military pre-emption,<br>7) torture and rendition,<br>8) a culture of authoritarian secrecy,<br>9) the persecution of political dissent,<br>10) enraging the Muslim world and alienating the rest of the world,<br>11) etc, etc, etc<br><br>while doing little or nothing to enhance our security or address the root causes OR symptoms of Islamic terror.<br><br>Our ports are no more secure than they were on 9/11, and they are being sold to an Arab government that recognized the Taliban. Our nuke plants are just as vulnerable as ever. The CAPPS II no-fly list supposedly protects us against a non-existent threat (when was a US domestic flight last hijacked by a US citizen?) while actually HELPING any terrorist cell with the resources to do a few test runs before the big event. Finally, not one individual has been publicly held accountable for his or her failures on 9/11, and Homeland (Pork Barrel) Security proved its "worth" during the Katrina debacle. <br><br>All of this disgusting shit and much more has gone down in the name of an incredibly dubious conspiracy theory worthy of Doctor Evil and containing far more plot holes than any Ed Wood feature. And even assuming that this official conspiracy theory is remotely true, the problem of a few thousand hardcore fundamentalist Islamic terrorists would quite obviously be best addressed with a small but expertly trained team of covert infiltrators and special operations forces.<br><br>So again I have to ask how anyone with any parapolitical interest other than furthering elitist hegemony could possibly see questioning the events of 9/11 as any sort of a wedge issue. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=stickdog99>stickdog99</A> at: 4/14/06 1:48 am<br></i>

[thoughtographer]

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>hey thoughtographer - I once heard of a guy who claimed to be able to expose pictures on film "with the power of his mind" a "real" "thoughtographer". ever hear of that? I wonder if it was a standard stage magic trick or what? Would be back 50-100 years ago when this guy was operating.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>You're probably thinking of Ted Serios, who is the man who inspired Jule Eisenbud to coin the term "Thoughtography" during his research with Ted as a subject in the '60s. Eisenbud published a very engaging and popular book; <!--EZCODE UNDERLINE START--><span style="text-decoration:underline">The World of Ted Serios</span><!--EZCODE UNDERLINE END-->, in which he documents his experiences with Ted, not only as a subject, but also as a friend and generally interesting human being. Many debunkers (most notably "Amazing" James Randi, but there have been others as of late) have reproduced results approaching Ted's by using optical tricks. Though their theories tend to be convincing on the surface, they often fall apart under consideration of the entirety of the phenomenon. I suggest you read Eisenbud's book if you're interested in making a determination as to his veracity, and the reality of the phenomenon in general. I would also suggest that you explore the methods and theories employed by the skeptics and debunkers, and compare them against Eisenbud's.<br><br>Eisenbud and Serios were not the first, and certainly not the last people to make a case for the reality of "Thoughtography"; most notable is the pairing of Tomokichi Fukurai and Ikuko Nagao of Japan, who called the phenomenon "Nensha" long before "Thoughtography" was coined as an English term. Fukurai's earlier relationship with an alleged clairvoyant named Chizuko Mifune is downright heartbreaking, and though accounts of the story differ, ultimately lead to her taking her own life. Fukurai's book, <!--EZCODE UNDERLINE START--><span style="text-decoration:underline">Clairvoyance and Thoughtography</span><!--EZCODE UNDERLINE END--> is recently back in print in paperback form.<br><br>Believe it or reject it, but it's an interesting subject either way. <p><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"A crooked stick will cast a crooked shadow."</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=thoughtographer>thoughtographer</A> at: 4/14/06 1:27 am<br></i>

[thoughtographer]

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Because even of it WASN'T an inside job, we're far better off treating it as if it were<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>I pretty much stopped reading right there. If you think any of the shit you listed following that comment is new, or even "needed" the events of September 11th, 2001 to gain critical momentum, you haven't been paying much attention. Using ignorance and fabricated "truth" as retaliation for lies makes you even lower than the people responsible for the wrongs you see in the world. <p><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"A crooked stick will cast a crooked shadow."</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--></p><i></i>

[stickdog99]

Of course you stopped reading there because there's no answer other than feigned moral outrage. <p></p><i></i>