11 Years After That Clear Blue Tuesday...

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Re: 11 Years After That Clear Blue Tuesday...

Postby Belligerent Savant » Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:39 am

.
thrulookingglass » Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:22 am wrote:There has to be hard definitive irrefutable evidence that beyond all doubt proves this was a grotesque multi-national conspiracy.


Much of the evidence -- such as the steel beams and related rubble from the demolition -- was shipped off in the hours/days after the event before any investigation took place, contrary to standard protocol, likely never to be recovered (if it still exists at all). Paper trails and/or other forms of communications that may offer hints of planning and/or co-conspirators likely were never retained, if ever committed to a medium that can be preserved in any way (we're not dealing with amateurs here, clearly). Anything that may remain of evidentiary value may be released to the public, in redacted form, in approximately 50 - 75 yrs or so, if ever.

That's the way these beasts roll.

All that said: there remains ample means to push forward on this. The UAF WTC 7 report is one of numerous encouraging* steps in that direction.



*idealistic, perhaps
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Re: 11 Years After That Clear Blue Tuesday...

Postby thrulookingglass » Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:32 pm

I was viewing some photos of the Pentagon strike as I'm entirely convinced something other than American flight 77 impacted. As such how could debris, handy that the parts I saw happened to include pieces of the American Airlines logo, have b̶e̶e̶n̶ ̶p̶l̶a̶c̶e̶d̶ ended up on the lawn of the Pentagon? Doesn't the law of inertia state that these items should have continued into the building rather than reflect away from it?

Btw, the prearranged photo op of Donald Rumsfeld helping with a stretcher is one of my favorite images of that day. What a crock of shit. Johnny on the spot. Should've had him bare-chested on the roof wielding a MANPAD in one hand and the American flag in the other. Be my hero, find the smoking gun! Too big an op for nothing to slip through the cracks. Though no one I know of has come closer to the truth than Hopsicker.
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Re: 11 Years After That Clear Blue Tuesday...

Postby Elvis » Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:24 pm

I just had a long visit with two old friends, very smart people I admire, and Building 7 came up. When I tried to suggest it was demolition, they shut me down fast—wouldn't even listen to a single point: "I've seen everything you've seen and there's nothing you can tell me to change my mind."

I know for a fact they haven't seen the same things; for instance neither bothered to read the NIST report or any of the critiques. That night, laying in bed, I got riled up thinking about their obstinance, got up and found an A&E911 video that I think will change their view (best to start at 06:20 to skip the introductory stuff:

https://www.ae911truth.org/evidence/vid ... -speak-out

(Can't embed.)

When I told them about the Architects & Engineers group, they refuse to believe that credible scientists would ever endorse the groups' views. When *I* try to tell them, it means nothing to to them—but when thirty certified, credentialed, working architects, engineers and physicists in the video say it, maybe my friends will listen. (One did agree to watch a video about it, I'll try to arrange that this week.)

I also watched a pre-draft-report presentation by Hulsey, which is less 'watchable', poor audio etc. I'll download the new draft report later. Thanks!
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Re: 11 Years After That Clear Blue Tuesday...

Postby Belligerent Savant » Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:19 pm

^^^^^^^^
Indeed. I've had similar exchanges with otherwise 'smart' friends/peers/family members. Which is why I typed on the prior page:


Belligerent Savant » Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:33 am wrote:The cognitive dissonance/denial (suffered by the majority) is part of the reason it's taken 20 years (and counting) to stare our Beast in the face and expose their unconscionable crimes against humanity.
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Re: 11 Years After That Clear Blue Tuesday...

Postby PufPuf93 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:23 am

I haven't talked to anyone in meat life about 9/11 for years.

Seldom think or read or watch anything about 9/11.

My mind is some what compromised now because of age but mostly illness but once was an intelligent quantitative type of over-educated guy.

I do not believe that an airliner hit the Pentagon and believe that controlled demolition brought down the WTC.

We all are suffering from a severe disconnect with reality post 9/11; this is at the heart of much of the human dysfunction observed today.
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Re: 11 Years After That Clear Blue Tuesday...

Postby Elvis » Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:34 pm

PufPuf93 wrote:We all are suffering from a severe disconnect with reality post 9/11; this is at the heart of much of the human dysfunction observed today.


Have we posted any research into that? Now I'm curious what studies may exist along those lines. So important.
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Re: 11 Years After That Clear Blue Tuesday...

Postby PufPuf93 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:43 pm

Elvis » Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:34 pm wrote:
PufPuf93 wrote:We all are suffering from a severe disconnect with reality post 9/11; this is at the heart of much of the human dysfunction observed today.


Have we posted any research into that? Now I'm curious what studies may exist along those lines. So important.


Doubt if a reputable scientist could get funding or could avoid career suicide with research from the starting point that 9/11 was a manufactured event and what the result has been to society.

After all we have Cass Sunstein type research about conspiracy theorists.
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Re: 11 Years After That Clear Blue Tuesday...

Postby Elvis » Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:56 pm

PufPuf93 wrote:Doubt if a reputable scientist could get funding or could avoid career suicide with research from the starting point that 9/11 was a manufactured event and what the result has been to society.


True™, but I'd think the primary trauma matters most, regardless who did it. "Trifecta"
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Re: 11 Years After That Clear Blue Tuesday...

Postby seemslikeadream » Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:06 pm

PufPuf93 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:23 am wrote:I do not believe that an airliner hit the Pentagon and believe that controlled demolition brought down the WTC.


that is the truth

we don't need a weather man to tell us which way the wind blows

who would have ever thought that there would be a Epstein/9/11 connection

but here we are

Amanda Keller (Epstein) met Mohamed Atta (9/11)

Image
https://www.madcowprod.com/2019/08/23/e ... deep-dive/


and Promis?

asking what country would have been really pissed at the CIA for using Promis to spy on and probably just never got over it
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Re: 11 Years After That Clear Blue Tuesday...

Postby Marionumber1 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:11 pm

I generally find it easier to talk about 9/11 with people by not getting into the physical evidence quagmire and instead focusing on the more easily provable connections from witness statements, news reports, official documents, etc. With major points being:

  • al-Qaeda's CIA connection: the involvement of bin Laden in the Soviet-Afghan War; statements by Sibel Edmonds about Operation Gladio B; the involvement of the Pakistani ISI (see the $100,000 wire transfer by ISI director general Mahmoud Ahmad to Mohammed Atta) and Saudi GIP (see the 28 pages), both of them CIA intermediaries for supplying the Afghan mujahideen, in supporting the hijackers
  • Mohammed Atta and other hijackers taking lessons at flight schools that were, per the work of Daniel Hopsicker, engaged in CIA drug trafficking
  • The evidence of insider trading that was disingenuously brushed aside in the 9/11 Commission Report not by refuting the evidence of insider trading but saying that those involved in the trades weren't linked to al-Qaeda
  • Unexplained failure of our air defenses: the paralysis caused by false/phantom radar blips; a surprising number of war games all running on September 11; the fact that Ptech, funded by al-Qaeda financier Yasin al-Qadi who claimed to know Dick Cheney, was running FAA systems

This puts me at odds with many researchers but I don't think focusing on physical evidence is necessary or helpful.
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Re: 11 Years After That Clear Blue Tuesday...

Postby Belligerent Savant » Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:31 pm

.

Salient points, Marionumber1.

There certainly are ample data points available (the timing of the insider trading/put options activities alone should have been enough for a formal inquiry beyond the hand-waving of the Warren/911 Commission, at a minimum; there's a money/transaction trail there. Even the likely shell companies/masked accounts behind such trades would be telling). But such formal inquiries would have almost certainly directed attention away from the Al Qaeda smokescreen. Verboten.

There is information available to scrutinize - one needn't even need to dig very deep, as you point out.

But few venture down those tracks, let alone allow themselves to get within striking distance of 'the 3rd rail'.
That said, the passage of time softens reserve. Future generations will get there, eventually.
Unfortunate we're such creatures of habit and fear that it takes so damn long to get there.
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Re: 11 Years After That Clear Blue Tuesday...

Postby seemslikeadream » Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:38 pm

does anyone remember Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer and the yellow sticky note?

I wish I could figure out that whole Able Danger thing ...Shaffer is back in the news with his best buddy General Yellowcake Flynn so of course I have a certain opinion about anyone being friends with Flynn

"DIA Agents were ordered to put yellow Post-its over Atta's face and the face's of 3 other 9/11 terrorists"
"We were directed to take those 3M yellow stickers and place them over the faces of Atta and the other terrorists and pretend they didn't exist"
https://www.democraticunderground.com/d ... 04x5300390

Did Shaffer and Phillpott make the whole thing up? ( I don't think so)
I got hell from the dems at DU on this one :P

Is Shaffer being friends with Flynn now retribution for the coverup order?


TRUMP TEAM CONSIDERING ANTHONY SHAFFER, CONTROVERSIAL FORMER ARMY OFFICER, FOR SENIOR DEFENSE INTELLIGENCE ROLE
BY JEFF STEIN ON 12/14/16 AT 10:04 PM EST
Shaffer
Retired Lieutenant Colonel Anthony Shaffer, left, with retired Lieutenant General Michael Flynn on September 12 at an awards ceremony for the London Center, a New York-based conservative think tank. Shaffer presented Flynn with a leadership award.

A former Army colonel at the center of a years-long controversy related to the September 11, 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon may be joining the Trump administration as a senior Defense Department intelligence official.

Retired Lieutenant Colonel Anthony Shaffer, 54, said he was invited to join the administration in some capacity, but declined to say who approached him or what the job might be. The position would be at the "senior defense intelligence" level, Shaffer has told associates who asked for anonymity because the discussions were considered private.

"I was asked to put my name in for a job—that's it," Shaffer said in a brief telephone interview. He is connected to retired Army Lieutenant General Michael T. Flynn, the incoming White House National Security Adviser, through their joint service in Afghanistan as well as The London Center, a New York-based conservative think tank where Shaffer is vice president for strategic initiatives and operations. At a banquet in September, Shaffer presented Flynn, a senior fellow at the center, with a leadership award. The center is named after its founder, Herbert I. London, a widely published social critic and one time Conservative Party candidate for mayor of New York.https://www.newsweek.com/anthony-shaffe ... nse-532133


damn paulthompson's cooperative research site is gone I'm looking for it, he had the best stuff on Able Danger
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Re: 11 Years After That Clear Blue Tuesday...

Postby Belligerent Savant » Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:15 pm

.

Re: put options --

On September 19, 2001, CBS reported:


Sources tell CBS News that the afternoon before the attack, alarm bells were sounding over unusual trading in the U.S. stock options market.

An extraordinary number of trades were betting that American Airlines stock price would fall.

The trades are called "puts" and they involved at least 450,000 shares of American. But what raised the red flag is more than 80 percent of the orders were "puts", far outnumbering "call" options, those betting the stock would rise.

Sources say they have never seen that kind of imbalance before, reports CBS News Correspondent Sharyl Attkisson. Normally the numbers are fairly even.

After the terrorist attacks, American Airline stock price did fall obviously by 39 percent, and according to sources, that translated into well over $5 million total profit for the person or persons who bet the stock would fall.

***

At least one Wall Street firm reported their suspicions about this activity to the SEC shortly after the attack.

The same thing happened with United Airlines on the Chicago Board Options Exchange four days before the attack. An extremely unbalanced number of trades betting United's stock price would fall — also transformed into huge profits when it did after the hijackings.

"We can directly work backwards from a trade on the floor of the Chicago Board Options Exchange. The trader is linked to a brokerage firm. The brokerage firm received the order to buy that 'put' option from either someone within a brokerage firm speculating, or from one of the customers," said Randall Dodd of the Economic Strategy Institute.

U.S. investigators want to know whether Osama bin Laden was the ultimate "inside trader" — profiting from a tragedy he's suspected of masterminding to finance his operation. Authorities are also investigating possibly suspicious trading in Germany, Switzerland, Italy and Japan.


On September 29, 2001, the San Francisco Chronicle pointed out:


"Usually, if someone has a windfall like that, you take the money and run," said the source, who spoke on condition of anonymity. "Whoever did this thought the exchange would not be closed for four days.

"This smells real bad."

***

There was an unusually large jump in purchases of put options on the stocks of UAL Corp. and AMR Corp. in the three business days before the attack on major options exchanges in the United States. On one day, UAL put option purchases were 25 times greater than the year-to-date average. In the month before the attacks, short sales jumped by 40 percent for UAL and 20 percent for American.
***

Spokesmen for British securities regulators and the AXA Group also confirmed yesterday that investigations are continuing.

The source familiar with the United trades identified Deutsche Banc Alex. Brown, the American investment banking arm of German giant Deutsche Bank, as the investment bank used to purchase at least some of the options.
***

Last weekend, German central bank president Ernst Welteke said a study pointed to "terrorism insider trading" in those stocks.



Also:

http://www.thecanadiancharger.com/page.php?id=5&a=1247

Excerpt:


What you have is the 9/11 Commission report, and here it is pointed out , that there has been insider trading, but that this insider trading cannot be traced to [al-Qaeda leader] Osama bin Laden, which means that it is highly unlikely that it had been Bin Laden.

Question: If this is not pursued any further, what does it mean?

Daniele Ganser: This means that the investigation of the terrorist attacks was incomplete, and always at the point where there are contradictions to the story, no further investigations are made. It looks very much as if one wants to examine only one story, the investigation is therefore one-sided. But this does not only apply to the put options. [31]

Interestingly enough, when Dr Ganser points out in his reply that this important data is not published, it is actually only half of the truth. Why?

The answer is very simple and odd at the same time: David Callahan, the editor of the US magazine SmartCEO, filed a request to the SEC about the put options which occurred prior to September 11 within the framework of the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). The SEC informed Callahan in its reply of December 23, 2009 under the number "09 07659-FOIA" as follows: This letter is in response to your request seeking access to and copies of the documentary evidence referred to in footnote 130 of Chapter 5 of the September 11 (9/11) Commission Report... We have been advised that the potentially responsive records have been destroyed. [32]

Therefore, we will unfortunately never know exactly how the SEC and the 9/11 Commission came to their conclusions regarding the 9/11 put options trading for their final report, because relevant documents were not only held back, but also destroyed - and that in spite of an agreement between the SEC and the National Archive of the United States, in which the SEC has agreed to keep all records for at least 25 years. [33]

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Re: 11 Years After That Clear Blue Tuesday...

Postby Elvis » Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:48 pm

Marionumber1 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:11 am wrote:I generally find it easier to talk about 9/11 with people by not getting into the physical evidence quagmire and instead focusing on the more easily provable connections from witness statements, news reports, official documents, etc. With major points being:

  • al-Qaeda's CIA connection: the involvement of bin Laden in the Soviet-Afghan War; statements by Sibel Edmonds about Operation Gladio B; the involvement of the Pakistani ISI (see the $100,000 wire transfer by ISI director general Mahmoud Ahmad to Mohammed Atta) and Saudi GIP (see the 28 pages), both of them CIA intermediaries for supplying the Afghan mujahideen, in supporting the hijackers
  • Mohammed Atta and other hijackers taking lessons at flight schools that were, per the work of Daniel Hopsicker, engaged in CIA drug trafficking
  • The evidence of insider trading that was disingenuously brushed aside in the 9/11 Commission Report not by refuting the evidence of insider trading but saying that those involved in the trades weren't linked to al-Qaeda
  • Unexplained failure of our air defenses: the paralysis caused by false/phantom radar blips; a surprising number of war games all running on September 11; the fact that Ptech, funded by al-Qaeda financier Yasin al-Qadi who claimed to know Dick Cheney, was running FAA systems

This puts me at odds with many researchers but I don't think focusing on physical evidence is necessary or helpful.


I basically agree, and over the years that was Jeff's position. But for many, the revelation of Bldg 7 has been a starting place for seeing the bigger picture. Plus, it's like an elephant in the room.


Another question: why didn't the authorities just say, "The building was unsafe so we had to take it down"? Or, if the demolition work was done by unknown parties, why that fact just wasn't folded into the terrorist narrative?
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Re: 11 Years After That Clear Blue Tuesday...

Postby thrulookingglass » Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:18 pm

If the presence of nanothermate/thermite is true, pure evidentiary true, aren't we looking at a much larger conspiracy here?

To explain the events that lead up to 9/11, we might as well explore all the history of man and our inability to end acts of warfare. Not a good way to live with empires that lead in blood.

We can tie everything together now, the assassinations, conspiracies, global warfare, clandestine agencies, corporate agendas and apocalyptic religious beliefs. Hidden social warfare. A controlling elite. Danger. That is hard to fit in to everyday conversation. Probably shouldn't be.
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