Financial Crisis Will Sweep Away Governments... June 29/2001

by **cortez** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 5:06 am

Ok The sources are WorldNetDaily,Pravda,Newsmax & LaRoche... Probably why it didn't pop up on my radar before now, maybe someone else here has looked into this further June 29, 2001, address to Duma official hearing “On Measures To Ensure the Development of the Russian Economy Under Conditions of a Destabilization of the World Financial System.” Dr. Koryagina is senior economist from the Institute of Macroeconomic Research at the Russian Ministry of Economic Development and Trade. Her speech has been translated from Russian. Subheads have been added. ...Many colleagues here know me, and that I have studied the "shadow" economy of the Soviet Union and then Russia, in parallel with studying the ordinary, normal economy. So, when I was dragged by the ears into politics, as well, while studying our domestic "shadow" economy and expanding that to the study of the transnational "shadow" economy, I unavoidably landed in the realm of analysis that is sometimes called conspiracy theory. This is an analytical technique, a methodology, which makes it possible to fine-tune research and quantitative evaluations, both with respect to time, and with respect to certain other kinds of parameters. I shall not go in detail into the basis for our forecast, which I shall now present to you. Just take my word for it, as some colleagues in the Ministry of Internal Affairs audience did back then. My forecast is that major events will unfold, once again, in August. In a strange way, it seems to me that the date may even be known. It will be on Aug. 19. I have provisionally called this scenario, "Tidal Wave XXI," where XXI denotes the new century, in Roman numerals. The Main Blow Will Hit the United States The main blow will be inflicted on the United States of America. My colleague [Andrei] Kobyakov said here, that his analysis shows that the eye of the cyclone will be in America. I would only add, that it will emerge there, but this will be done on purpose. Many of the preceding speakers mentioned financial figures, on the magnitude of financial assets, which had reached around $400 trillion in 2000, as against $30 trillion world GDP, and on capital flows. But it is consistently treated as unnecessary to analyze who is transferring that money. Who is the non-resident, with respect to the American economy? Where do these investments come from? If here we bring in our supplementary analysis and methodology, the picture becomes fairly clear, and can be observed, including with respect to the persons involved. Thus, I make this determination. It will be the United States this time, and it will be a crisis developing at a different rate than the one in 1997-98. At that time, the action was drawn out. Here, it will be more of a precision strike. It will be like the explosion of the Universe. And it will spread throughout all continents. Many governments will be swept away. The monetary and financial system of the world will change. In Russia, beyond a doubt, the free exchange of currency will be shut down. And the approximately $100 billion, now circulating in cash inside our country, will suddenly cause an enormous shock to Russian citizens. (It should be mentioned that the quantity of foreign currency, functioning in economic exchange to transact deals, is 1.5 times the ruble money supply, servicing economic activity.) It will be impossible to change money. Those who have a lot of money (and I told this to our policemen not long ago, at a follow-up conference held in May 2001) will use their greenbacks to wallpaper the bathroom, where they'll be able to admire the portrait of a past President of the U.S.A. There will be a change of leadership in the U.S.A., and early elections in Russia. By this Fall, there will be a new Parliament, a different government, but the President will remain the same. Insofar as I nevertheless fear to say too much—and I could say very much—thank you for your attention. God grant that my forecast turn out to be wrong. May God grant that! <a href="http://www.schillerinstitute.org/duma/duma_koryagina.html#tatanya">www.schillerinstitute.org...ml#tatanya</a> another interview partially transcribed Dr. Koragina is a trusted advisor to Russia’s President, Vladamir Putin. She gained prominence by accurately predicting the collapse of the Russian economy in 1998. Then…on July 12th 2001, she predicted the collapse of the American economy after an attack on the US. This is pretty scary as she predicted this to happen on August 19th…which…ironically was only a few weeks before the attack on the World Trade Center. When she was questioned about her credibility she had this to say….and this is in her words as spoken during the interview. OK…first of all, I want to tell you that I give this interview after I have spoken at two very important meetings or conferences. First one was held at the Institution devoted to the fight against organized crime in April. And the second speech I gave was at the Parliament hearing about the world economic crisis. For thirty years, I’ve been researching the shadow economy and for ten years I’ve been researching the organized crime. As a researcher, it was more an accident that I stumbled upon the discovery that all the financial crisis that have been taking place in the world lately were planned by something or somebody. As I was researching the economic development of the world and I was researching the shadow economy and the organized crime, particularly the mafia, I started to work on the hypothesis that there are actually shadow structures that are interested in slowing down and collapsing the world economy.... ...Dr. Koryagina went on to explain that the idea of using fundamentalists of any religion isn’t new at all. We all remember the secret societies in the Middle-Ages that would assassinate people and pledge their lives to their charismatic leaders, willing to die for their cause. She stated that she wasn’t at all convinced that Osama Bin Laden was entirely to blame for the WTC attack but rather he was more likely part of a plot and was used by this government and the secret societies as a focal point. This seemed logical to me, as we have now found out that he is not going to live long anyway due to severe kidney disease. He very well may be dead right now. As recently as last July, while on the FBI top ten most wanted list, he received dialysis at the American hospital in Dubai and was visited by no less than 15 CIA agents in his private room which is a rarity in those parts of the world. You have to ask yourself: why didn’t they arrest him if he was such a wanted man? Then Rick asked who these secret societies actually were. She said there were too many to name but one was called “The Dead Head.” I have studied secret societies myself and even have a couple of family members who are members of such societies or groups but I have never heard of this group. She wouldn’t get much more specific but went on to say that these groups have realized that their slow growth movement has lost its appeal and is losing momentum. Her research showed that the American and world economies are going to literally explode and come to a total collapse very soon and they needed to do something to lay blame at some else’s doorstep. She then said something that really piqued my interest and alluded to some of the players. She said, “For instance, who is responsible for the loss of 5 trillion dollars of the American peoples money in securities, in a collapsed market? She also brought up the issue of massive insider trading just days before the WTC attack and went on to say that there are volumes of documentation available beyond the mountain of evidence in her possession. She said the trail would lead directly to the most prestigious and wealthiest people in the world therefore they needed something to preoccupy the suspicious. Also mentioned was the coming rollacoster ride in oil prices due to the Israeli and Palestinian conflict that will no doubt erupt soon. Her belief in the world economy collapse is based on the estimation of the world wealth, about 450 trillion dollars by most economists account,in securities, futures, etc…and the known outcome of the worlds markets is only thirty trillion. This vast gap cannot be concealed much longer.... ...Rick Wiles then asked, “If these people are so diabolical then how have they managed to put together this mastermind plot? This is here it blew my socks off because she came right out of left field with her answer. I never expected nor had I ever thought of her answer but once again, what I already knew made this totally sensible and logical. Dr. Koragina said, “Well basically, to answer your question we need to go back to the operation and structure of those secret societies, religious groups, and sects. Basically, their agenda, for many, many years, has been to insert their people into the highest levels of government. They have been doing it diligently and slowly. For example, the sect we know as Scientology is known for doing that. They either recruit people from the highest levels of government that are very influential people or they send their people who are already in the sect into the highest levels of government. And basically, over the years the situation has become as such that even the smallest sect or secret society or religious group has influence over one government, or one country, or over a group of countries of the world because their members have been inserted into the highest levels of government at the highest levels of influential society. Rick asked, “Is the Russian government in the Kremlin fighting the same penetration by these sects? Is this something that Vladamir Putin is aware of and is he resisting it? Dr. Koryagina: Well, first of all, I can’t tell you want Vladamir Putin is aware of or what he is doing to fix the problem. I want to tell you, yes, the certain groups, sects, and organizations are trying to influence any decision that the government makes. There are reports that when the rubble defaulted when there was total collapse of the Russian economy, the Prime Minister of Russia, Kereyanko, according to the German sources, was heavily involved in and a recruiter for, the Scientologists. That might have been the connection to the collapse of the Rubble back then. Rick: Are you saying that the Prime Minister was a recruiter for Scientology? Dr. Koryagina: Yes, this information appeared in the Russian press and they cited German sources that Prime Minister Keryenko was indeed a member of Scientology sect. And I know Russian malitia Russian police are trying to take care of the development of sects and that have special divisions that are trying to minimize the affects of those sects in the country. Dr. Koryagina went on to say that the illuminati and Free Masons that are such a focus of many globalization watchers are actually the organizations of the past. She did, however say that the new organizations work a bit differently that those old groups. The new players in the New World Order gang are concentrate on getting control of the psyche and are using mind control of many descriptions... <a href="http://www.propagandamatrix.com/true_world_order_koryagnia.html">www.propagandamatrix.com/...agnia.html</a> Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=cortez@rigorousintuition>cortez</A> at: 4/13/06 10:45 am

by **cortez** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 5:09 am

WHO HOLDS THE REINS OF THE RUSSIAN ECONOMY Tatyana KORYAGINA, D.Sc. (Economics), full member of the Academy of Natural Sciences Economic issues seem to interest one and all now. People want to know about the state of economic affairs in this country and prospects for the Russian economy. Our interlocutor today is Tatyana Koryagina, D.Sc. (Economics). ...Question: What's the problem then? Answer: Studying the processes occurring in our economy, I can say that the Russian economy today is a phenomenon on a much greater scale than that covered by statistics. Using the international methodology, the State Statistics Committee officially makes adjustments to the shadow constituent within the framework of settlements in the system of national accounts; however, they take account of just 21-25 percent of gross domestic product (GDP). By my estimates, another 15 to 17 percent should be added to them. It seems that nothing will change if we ignore the 17 percent of GDP falling on shadow capital. It is shadow capital in any case. However, this distorts the entire picture. These figures show that there is a great "economic pillow," a large section of economic life remaining in the shadow. It is not taken into account, but it does exist, with shadow money flows formed within the framework of its activity, the circulation of capital and changes in families' incomes. A larger part of this shadow capital - some 20-26 billion dollars a year - is taken abroad. Question: What is shadow capital? Where does it come from? Answer: According to the international methodology of national accounting, the shadow economy has three components. The first one is the informal economy which includes household work and small-scale craftsmanship. The second one is hidden production, with medium-sized and big enterprises concealing part of the products they produce. The third one is the criminal sector. By using my methods, it is not so difficult to find that capitals circulating in the criminal sector are far greater in their absolute volume than those circulating in the first two sectors of the shadow economy. The question is how we could take account of the criminal sector. It includes prostitution and drug trafficking, underground production of weapons and their underground sale, and illegal financial operations, i.e., all that is banned by law and punishable under the Criminal Code as economic crimes. However, criminals who obtained their money illegally, as well as their clans and families, use their "dirty" money to take part in the "clean" economy. The problem is that there is a criminal element here and that the criminal money is working. Question: How could the criminal constituent in our economy be reduced? Answer: Certain phenomena occurring in the Russian economy today can change a great deal in our country's economic development. Young, very active people have come on to the surface. At present, they are still supporting the top echelon of managers of the older generation who have found the present situation more familiar because informal economic relations, or the shadow economy, existed before as well. At the turn of the 1990s, the shadow economy accounted for 10-15 percent of GDP. Besides, the older generation looks at our estimates concerning the shadow sector with greater understanding than the middle-aged and younger generations. Young businessmen represent a new economic potential, they are not so eager to work under criminals. Question: Is there any way to help these businessmen? Answer: Money goes into the shadow because of high taxes, and though income tax is the lowest in this country (13 percent), we have very high social taxes. If you have a legally registered workforce and legally pay wages to your employees, it is very difficult to add to what you pay another 36 percent or so as a single social tax (ESN). However, taxes are not the only thing. A favourable institutional environment is needed to get capitals out of shadow. Our state, even if it wanted to improve the situation, is restricted in its activities since the reins of power in the economy have been seized by organised crime. Criminal structures have a real advantage, because when the state is just going to restrict them, they are ready to violate the law. They do not have any scruples with regard to society; they bribe those state management structures which can and must find and punish them, and they go unpunished concealing huge money flows which are circulated there. Question: Does this mean that they should be forgiven and legalised? Answer: Many people say this today: since we cannot combat this, since we are helpless in this case, let us do what the criminal structures want us to do, that is, give them complete freedom. This is what the liberals demand of us. However, it should be realised that criminal structures do not legalise their activities because their capital is criminal and destructive by definition. It will never express state interests. True, a great many individual and corporate producers would like to work honestly today because they do not think like criminals do. However, they cannot work honestly because the criminal structures have already created a specific environment. Question: Is there no way out of this situation? Answer: The way out should be, primarily, political rather than economic. It is impossible to oust organised crime from "below" when over the past ten years people with the gangster mentality and close ties with organised crime have come to the top. They are creations of organised crime both in spirit and in terms of direct guidance. So the "cleansing" should be started from the top, and the main thing is not to have these people at the helm. This is our key problem. Today, many people ask themselves: who is Putin, whom does he side with? Russian people place all their hopes on the president today, and I also hope that he'll be able to end this confrontation. Question: What level has organised crime reached today? Answer: It exists in the government, at least there is its influence there, and this influence is already total. The thing is that the existing mechanism of economic policy allows organised crime to feel fine today. To prevent organised crime from feeling comfortable today, the government must pursue economic policy accompanied by stringent state control. However, this requires a different state model, and a different economic, industrial and social policy. Question: Does this mean that the confrontation is still there? Answer: There can be no peace between thieves and the people. If some persons think that they will overcome this problem by investing more money in the formation of ideology suitable for criminal structures and creating an image of an attractive gangster in the media, they are mistaken. Question: Today some economists say that the state is being destroyed... Answer: True, the destruction process is under way, and this is a historical moment for Putin to step in. If the president demonstrates the great-power position, people will understand him at the level of intuition, and I believe that the Nord-Ost events were indicative in this case. The media threw mud at Putin as was the case with the Kursk submarine, but people sided with him. All this looked like a coup attempt, an attempt to remove Putin from power. Question: Who is behind all this? Answer: This isn't a simple question. They could be called a "third force", a force that destroyed the Soviet Union and is now destroying Russia. This behind-the-scene force has a wide range of interests: it is fighting for a new world order, and it doesn't need a strong state; what it needs is chaos and power. This covert force was behind the September 11 attack as well. It has its "soldiers," they are numerous and occupy suprastate positions. Question: Where may the attack come from? Answer: I believe that the strike will be aimed at the stock and currency market and the energy market, and later at the oil market. Stock indices will go up and down, as well as oil prices, there'll be chaos in the currency sphere. This will result in economic chaos, including that in the United States. Meanwhile, the United States is getting ready for this: multicoloured dollars have already been printed and stocked in banks, and the United States believes that the new dollar will become the main world currency. Question: What is to happen to the present "green" dollars? Answer: The whole amount of them will be "cut off" and people will be told: "That's the end of it, we have other dollars now." Therefore, my advice for those who keep dollars is not to take the risk and keep their savings in roubles in the Savings Bank..... <a href="http://www.cdi.org/russia/johnson/7042-16.cfm">www.cdi.org/russia/johnson/7042-16.cfm</a> Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=cortez@rigorousintuition>cortez</A> at: 4/13/06 10:51 am

by **madeupname452** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:03 pm

<a href="http://ming.tv/flemming2.php/__show_article/_a000010-000923.htm">ming.tv/flemming2.php/__s...000923.htm</a> There is a busy little private company you probably never have heard about, but which you should. Its name is the Depository Trust & Clearing Corporation.... In the old days, when you owned stocks you would have the stock certificates lying in your safe. And if you needed to trade them, you needed to get them shipped off to a broker. Nowadays that would be considered very cumbersome, and it would be impractical to invest via computer or over the phone. So the shortcut was invented that the broker would hold your stocks instead of you. And in order for him to legally be able to trade them for you, the stocks were placed under their "street name". I.e. they're in the name of the brokerage, but they're just holding them in trust and trading them for you. And you're in reality the beneficiary rather than the owner. Which is all fine and dandy if everything goes right. Now, it appears the rules were then changed so the brokers are not allowed any longer to put the stocks in their own name. Instead, what they typically do is to put the stocks into the name of "Cede and Company" or "Cede & Co" or some such variation. And the broker might tell you that it is just a fictitious name, and will explain why it is really more practical to do that than to put it in your name. The problem with that is that it appears that Cede isn't just some dummy name, but an actual corporation that DTCC controls. And, well, if you ask anybody about this, who actually knows about it, they will naturally tell you that it is all a formality. To serve you better, of course. And, well, maybe it is. DTCC seems like a nice and friendly company. It is a private company, owned by the same people (major U.S. banks) who own the Federal Reserve Bank. And if they all stick to their job, and just keep the money and your stocks flowing smoothly, I'm sure that is all well and good. But if somebody at some point should decide otherwise, and there's a national U.S. emergency and/or the U.S. government becomes unable to pay its debts, well, they might just not give you your stocks back. Because legally they own them. Something to think about.

by **Gouda** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 7:40 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Then Rick asked who these secret societies actually were. She said there were too many to name but one was called “The Dead Head.” I have studied secret societies myself and even have a couple of family members who are members of such societies or groups but I have never heard of this group.<hr></blockquote> That's a new one. Or old one. William Cooper had a long list of ruling secret societies, and I think it was one of "The Order"s who come out on top: Snake, Brotherhood, Serpent, Golden Dawn - I don't remember which. I am not a fan of the grateful dead, but I have to say, in light of this information, Jerry rules! <img src="http://www.eurodead.net/board/non-cgi/avatars/uploaded_AVATAR.GIF" style="border:0;"/> edit: as proof that i am no fan, i had spelled 'grateful' as 'greatful'. Error corrected. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=gouda@rigorousintuition>Gouda</A> at: 4/14/06 5:47 am

by **cortez** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:34 am

madeupname Stocks sound better and better all the time. Now with this Dr. Koryagina she is unabashedly a Larouchian, but whomever she has as contacts or just her skill at reading economic trends, It would be nice to find out what she sees coming in the near future. another transcript <a href="http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/articles/LaRouche_dialog.html">www.21stcenturysciencetec...ialog.html</a> Tatyana Koryagina: [For technical reasons, Dr. Koryagina's remarks are given here as a transcript of the simultaneous translation, which abridged them. She spelled out her economic and political forecast in testimony before the State Duma the next day. See EIR, July 20.] I am very glad that Lyndon and his wife were able to attend this seminar—especially his wife, this outstanding woman. People knew about LaRouche in the Soviet Union, and now in Russia, but I would like to say just a few words about him. Lyndon LaRouche has been a candidate for President several times, and will be again for the Democratic Party in 2004. Having met him in person, you can see more clearly why, after his previous campaigns, he landed in prison, thanks to the efforts of Henry Kissinger and certain other organizations. I think that the contrast of Lyndon LaRouche with Reagan, and now even more so, with certain other idiots, gives us a sense of the level of knowledge which LaRouche represents, also as a Presidential candidate. Imagine if he had been a candidate for the Russian Presidency, in comparison with Yeltsin! Now we have the younger Bush, who may even be more stupid than Yeltsin. Tomorrow there will be parliamentary hearings on the world financial system. And here we should say that LaRouche has carried out a revolution in the ability of masses of Americans to understand what's going on in the economy. Just now Professor Chernavsky said that physics is not a well-ordered science. My colleague, Yegor Gaidar, thinks that economics is a well-ordered science. You have to understand, that the destruction of the world economy, of virtually all the economies in the world, is being accomplished not by a stupid policy, but by a very clever, liberal policy. This is a policy not of creating, but of destroying. The liberal theory confirms the notion of the Golden Billion; it is designed for a small elite layer. The question is whether the public, the population of theworld , can resist and defeat this small layer of the international oligarchy, as well as the domestic oligarchy. Because, in fact, all the money that has been invested in stocks, and so forth, is going to be devalued and wiped out. Even a wealthy country like the United States is faced with the collapse of health care and education. So, the task is to pull people together into a united effort, to combat this evil policy. Otherwise, you get a complete, worldwide deluge. ... We are carrying out further forecasts on the process of defaults, and we anticipate big events in August-September-October. If we look at the wave, which spread from Asia in 1997, to Russia, and so forth, the next big explosion we expect in the United States. The banking system, the currency system. Voices from the hall: Who says this? Koryagina: There are various forecasts. I am presenting my vision of how things will develop.... These were the same prognoses that were correct, about what would happen with the devaluation of the ruble. Lyndon LaRouche is now trying, and has already done a lot, to explain in the United States, and to the rest of the world, what is happening.... He has shown that the dollar is not actually a functioning currency, but a piece of paper backed up by nothing. Not long ago, there was an interview with [George] Soros in a leading financial publication. He used the image, that when he talks about the inevitable crash, people say: What are you talking about, people are still buying things, aren't they? He said, "The orchestra has stopped playing, but they're still dancing." The American population is completely uninformed about what's actually going on. LaRouche goes to the roots of the problem, which is very important. Therefore, on behalf of the Schiller Institute movement in Russia, I wish him good health, and all the best. And I wish him success in going into the Duma, at the hearings, and straightening out our parliamentarians and government...

by **cortez** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:24 am

Pravda also detailed its own interview with Dr. Koryagina. Here is an excerpt: Pravda: All the participants at the hearings stated that America is a huge financial pyramid which will crash soon. Still, it is hard to understand how this could happen in the first and richest country of the world – without a war, without missile or bomb strikes? Koryagina: Besides bombs and missiles, there are other kinds of weaponry, much more destructive ones. ... Pravda: Well, economic theory. But how it is possible for you to give an exact date [for the U.S. crash] – August 19? Koryagina: The U.S. is engaged in a mortal economic game. The known history of civilization is merely the visible part of the iceberg. There is a shadow economy, shadow politics and also a shadow history, known to conspirologists. There are [unseen] forces acting in the world, unstoppable for [most powerful] countries and even continents. Pravda: Just these forces intend to smash America on August 19? Koryagina: There are international "super-state" and "super-government" groups. In accordance with tradition, the mystical and religious components play extremely important roles in human history. One must take into account the shadow economy, shadow politics and the religious component, while predicting the development of the present financial situation. Pravda: Still, I don't understand what could be done to this giant country [the U.S.], whose budget is calculated in the trillions of dollars. Koryagina: It is possible to do anything to the U.S. ... whose total debt has reached $26 trillion. Generally, the Western economy is at the boiling point now. Shadow financial actives of $300 trillion are hanging over the planet. At any moment, they could fall on any stock exchange and cause panic and crash. The recent crisis in Southeast Asia, which touched Russia, was a rehearsal. Pravda: What is the sense of smashing just America? Koryagina: The U.S. has been chosen as the object of financial attack because the financial center of the planet is located there. The effect will be maximal. The strike waves of economic crisis will spread over the planet instantly and will remind us of the blast of a huge nuclear bomb. Pravda: Did Russia's crisis of 1998 have this religious-mystical component? Koryagina: ... The Russian crisis of 1998 was preconditioned by internal factors. Yeltsin's policy enlarged its consequences. Now we have President Putin, and this is a good choice. Pravda: What do we have to do now? Koryagina: Recommendations, compiled by the Duma Commission of Economic Politics after the recent Duma hearings, offer instruction on what should be done to escape the consequences of a world crisis inspired by a financial catastrophe in the U.S. This document will be sent – or has already been sent – to President Putin. Pravda: What should Russian citizens do? Koryagina: They should start changing their dollars for rubles. President Putin and the Russian Central Bank are already taking the necessary healthy measures. There are high chances that after 19 August the ruble will become a very good currency. Pravda: Why 19 August, say, and not the 21st? Koryagina: Some fluctuation in this date is possible. Serious forces are acting against THOSE WHO ARE NOW PREPARING THE ATTACK ON THE UNITED STATES [emphasis added]. August, with very high probability, will bring the financial catastrophe to the U.S. ... The last 10 days of August have especial importance from a religious-sensible point of view. [End of excerpt] <a href="http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/9/16/103951.shtml">www.newsmax.com/archives/...3951.shtml</a>

by **Dreams End** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 2:52 pm

Larouche has been predicting economic collapse since the seventies. More disturbing is the credibility and prestige Larouche and Schiller Institute seem to enjoy in Russia: <blockquote>Quote:<hr>U.S. statesman, philosopher, economist, and Presidential pre-candidate,Lyndon H. LaRouche, Jr. spoke before the Russian State Duma's Economics Committee in Moscow on June 29, at the invitation of the Economics Committee's chairman, Dr. Sergei Glazyev. LaRouche's subject was the global financial and economic crisis, and the way to overcome it. In addition to the Duma delegates, more than 100 scientists, economic experts, and media representatives attended the special hearing, whose theme was "Ensuring the Development of the Russian Economy Under Conditions of a Destabilized World Financial System." Other speakers included Academician Dmitri Lvov of the Russian Academy of Sciences; Helga Zepp-LaRouche, founder of the international Schiller Institutes; Dr. Jonathan Tennenbaum of German Schiller Institute; Sen. Ivo Tarolli, Secretary of Italy's Christian Democratic Center party; H.E. Datuk Yahya Baba, Malaysia's Ambassador to Moscow; and Dr. Tatyana Koryagina, senior economist of the Institute for Macroeconomic Research at the Ministry of Economic Development and Trade <a href="http://www.schillerinstitute.org/highlite/highlite_duma_6_29_01.html">www.schillerinstitute.org...29_01.html</a> <hr></blockquote> I've noted before how elements of the Russian intelligence community studied Larouche and ultimately decided to adopt his tactics and philosophy.

by **cortez** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:13 pm

I ezboard makes it hard to find anything in these forums, but do you know where you posted the info on the Russian Larochians?

by **Dreams End** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:49 pm

There's a whole Larouche thread in the archives in "fascism" but I looked...it's not in there. Here's the original quote and a link. Note that the link is to a google cache..it still works but that can change. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>The journalist Pavel Voshchanov, once Kurginyan's associate and also onetime Yeltsin's press secretary, was the first to make public the activities of the Experimental Creative Center and its links to the discredited Soviet governments of Nikolai Ryzhkov and Valentin Pavlov. It turns out that Kurginyan's institute has had strong support from former analysts and Page 16 Red Religion 35 ideologists of the CPSU Central Committee's International Department, the group of think tanks of the former USSR Academy of Sciences, prominent space and nuclear strategists from the defense sector and the KGB people from such front organizations as the Soviet Committee for Peace Defense, the Institute of the International Working Movement and the Council of General Trade Union Confederations. Together with these organizations, the ECC began to publish in 1991 an intellectual bi- monthly, Polis, which repeated his theme in a more sophisticated form. Polis' editorial board and contributors represent the whole constellation of the names from this realm. They include Alexander Galkin, former deputy rector of the Institute of Social Sciences of the CPSU Central Committee; Yuri Krasin, rector of the Academy of Social Sciences of the CPSU Central Committee; Alexander Weber, Timur Timofeev, Vsevolod Rybakov, Alexander Epstein, all career staffers at the Central Committee's International Department; and the leading experts of the Institutes of USA and Canada, Europe, and Oriental Studies. For years, members of this group have studied "subversive" movements active in the West (sometimes in the hopes of manipulating them). In an odd turnabout, writings in Polis make it evident that the new political coloration of the ECC group reflects the thinking of groups that used to be their object of study: ideologies of the Western radical leftist and extreme rightist movements including the New Age and Lindon LaRouche philosophies<hr></blockquote> From this <a href="http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:fxjRtF_0bloJ:www.demokratizatsiya.org/Dem%2520Archives/DEM%252001-02%2520yasmann.pdf+dugin+larouche&hl=en&client=firefox">Google cached article.</a> We've had long and detailed discussions about Russian nationalism and the new Eurasianist movement with it's quasi fascist mythos (led by the now infamous, on this board, Alexander Dugin). The interaction of Russian intel, Larouche and this Eurasianist element is a bit scary and you see some of the other players pop up in other contexts such as General Leonid Ivashov at the "Axis for Peace" conference along with Helga Larouche, and "former" Larouchie Webster "I expose fascism except when it comes to Larouche" Tarpley. <a href="http://www.axisforpeace.net/article34.html">www.axisforpeace.net/article34.html</a> I think I'd have to learn Russian to really get a handle on all of this. And I go back and forth about how it fits into the even larger picture...is there anti U.S. rhetoric real, or is this just another one of Dugin's facades? Weirdly, Dugin, who now adopts a position of utilizing the Orthodox Church as the spiritual base of the movement, was an overt occultist advocating the "left-hand path". His initial National Bolshevik Party was allegedly ANTI-Putin, but he currently enjoys rather a cozy relationship with Putin. I've seen no direct connections between Dugin and Larouche, but they preach a similar message. Very similar. Still, it's clear that Larouche is focusing to a great degree on "Eurasia" which makes sense given the chaos of the last couple decades in that part of the world. Is he working for us? Freelancing? Working for the Russians? Traded to Russia for a future 2nd round draft pick? I have no idea.

by **Qutb** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:31 pm

While LaRouche gets invited to the Duma, Richard Perle invited a former LaRouche "intelligence officer", then working for the Rand Corporation, to the Defense Policy Board. It was he (Polish-sounding name... don't remember) who said "Iraq is the tactical pivot, Saudi Arabia the strategic pivot, Egypt is the prize". They get around, the LaRouchies.

by **antiaristo** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 6:33 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Then Rick asked who these secret societies actually were. She said there were too many to name but one was called “The Dead Head.” I have studied secret societies myself and even have a couple of family members who are members of such societies or groups but I have never heard of this group. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That's a new one. Or old one. William Cooper had a long list of ruling secret societies, and I think it was one of "The Order"s who come out on top: Snake, Brotherhood, Serpent, Golden Dawn - I don't remember which.<hr></blockquote> Gouda, With transcription, translation or whatnot, don't you think that could have been garbled? From Death's Head? Skull & Bones?

by **cortez** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 12:56 am

Dreams End thanks for the links on Laroche, Small tidbit from wikipedia ...He also claims that he was used by the Reagan administration as a "back-channel" for negotiations with the Soviet Union. There is no independent verification of these claims... Seems like he may have got some pals in Russia during that time. Weird guy that's for sure. Still bugs me about the 'Fidelio' quote in Eyes Wide Shut (in the Kubrick thread) ..Could Kubrick have simply been making a conspiracy movie about a world-controlling cabal based in New York that self-consciously (okay, ritually) traced its origins back to Venice? Is much of what appears in Eyes Wide Shut an elaborate distraction from the retelling of what is perhaps the grandest and boldest conspiracy theory of the modern era? Is there any significance to the fact that the European premiere of Eyes Wide Shut was held in Venice? Stanley Kubrick has been confirmed as a long-time subscriber to the magazine Fidelio. He even had some conversations with some of the magazine’s authors. Perhaps not surprisingly, there are other overlaps between the “political” subjects Kubrick treats and those discussed by LaRouche and his associates. As LaRouche himself wrote in 1995, the “inventor” of the Atom Bomb, Leo Szilard—a figure who has been written about disparagingly and frequently in various LaRouche publications—was commonly known as “Dr. Strangelove.” LaRouche associates are also responsible for extensively documenting various “brainwashing” experiments carried out by the British (which remain largely undocumented elsewhere, unlike such U.S. counterparts as MK-ULTRA). It has recently been revealed that much of the source material for A Clockwork Orange was obtained by Anthony Burgess from British Intelligence and was based on these experiments... <a href="http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:XvrxXUliua4J:mindsetcentral.com/eyeswideshut.html+kubrick+larouche+fidelio+&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1">link</a>

by **Dreams End** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 11:22 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Stanley Kubrick has been confirmed as a long-time subscriber to the magazine Fidelio. He even had some conversations with some of the magazine’s authors. Perhaps not surprisingly, there are other overlaps between the “political” subjects Kubrick treats and those discussed by LaRouche and his associates<hr></blockquote> I tried to track that down and never found a source outside of the Larouche organization. Since you list it as confirmed, where do you get that info? The article you linked to was also mentioned in the Eyes Wide Shut thread. (I wish there was some feature where relinked sites would be automatically linked back to other threads that also link there.) Here's a fun little project. Search on Loen Weber, the purported author of this article, and see what else he's written. Answer: 0. I figure the name is a pseudonym and despite the "hey, lookie here" attitude at the start of the piece, he clearly is well read in Larouchian/Tarpleyan lore. But as I search, I find that you and I both posted on that thread, so this is old news. I has suggested that "Loen Weber" might have been a pseudonym for Lonnie Wolf, someone who writes about media and politics for Larouche. But why assume it embraces Larouche? Since entrance to the evil cult is gained by giving the name of a Larouche publication, why not assume it's a dig at Larouche? And I found lots of Scientology connections in that movie, which seemed quite deliberate, right down to casting two Scientologists in the lead role and having Kidman dream of an affair with a Naval officer, surely named Hubbard, no? Most likely, Kubrick blended lots of stuff in there.

by **antiaristo** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 11:53 am

I think the reason the financial crisis has not yet materialised is that the banks have been allowed to securitise their debts. As a result they no longer care about the credit-rating of the borrower. That's why you hear about credit card solicitations being sent to babies, the deceased and even animals. Somebody else will have to clear up the mess. But it WILL COME. No doubt about that at all. What will happen when the bubble bursts, and the economy collapses? Borrowers will be unable to service their obligations. The Great Depression will repeat. Banks and other financial institutions will be writing off debts. Huge amounts of money. The shareholders know this. It happens. But the big question is, WHICH DEBTS WILL BE WRITTEN OFF? Many of you know that using guns and masks ans a getaway car is the old-fashioned way of robbing a bank. The modern method is to borrow a large amount, then get the bank to write it off as unrecoverable. That's what the King of Spain did with Banesto. A few days before the bank collapsed his overdraft (about a million pounds, under an assumed name) was formally writtenoff. I understand this was done on the orders of Mario Conde, President of Banesto and a part of the King's own lodge. Here's what will happen. Because of the Bankruptcy Act, the decision to write off outstanding debts is now ENTIRELY DISCRETIONARY. Huge amounts will be written off, as the public would expect in a depression. But nothing will go to the working class. Working class debtors will be pursued until the day they die. All of the writeoffs will be channelled to the wealthy. People that mix with the likes of King Juan Carlos of Spain. A $20 million loan for a yacht will be quietly written off, and the owner allowed to keep the vessel. The model is Lloyds of London, the insurance market (though echoes can be detected in what happened to Katrina emergency funds). A crisis arose. Asbestosis liability. By the time the dust had settled thousands of wealthy American "Names" had lost everything. Everything. But those dying, or dead of asbestosis are still tied up in the courts. Where did the money go? I've posted an excellent Time Magazine piece written in the midst of the Lloyds fraud in February 2000. It is well worth reading if you want to gain some perspective on who it is will do very well out of the coming financial crisis. <a href="http://p216.ezboard.com/frigorousintuitionfrm9.showMessage?topicID=63.topic">p216.ezboard.com/frigorou...D=63.topic</a>

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