Aquino erases Presidio data from Wikipedia

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Aquino erases Presidio data from Wikipedia

Postby biaothanatoi » Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:15 pm

Take a look at the talk page of the Wikipedia entry on Michael Aquino, where the great poseur himself has been vigorously deleting any information relating to the Presidio ritual abuse scandal after which he was 'processed' out of the army.

This violates Wikipedia rules around autobiography but, in this case, the editors have accepted his claim that the Presidio scandal was the result of "conspiracy theorists" and "hysteria". Anybody who is familiar with the case knows that this is far from the truth. The serious harms inflicted upon the children at Presidio were documented by Ehrensaft in this journal article.

I've recently been passed some of the child interview transcripts from the case, in which children as young as nine indicate that members of their family were involved in a ritually abusive group with Aquino at the centre. The interviewers questions are open-ended and exploratory, with the children very specific about the incidences of abuse, including places, abusers, smells and sounds.

I recently found an interesting blog entry from one of the lawyers in the case, reproduced here. He was responding to an attack on Janet Reno for prosecuting the Country Walk ritual abuse case:

I represented some clients, pro bono, in a lawsuit against the federal government over sexual abuse at an Army day care center. The facts in the case were very disturbing, and we did not raise the satanic allegations, of which there was considerable factual support. As an example, the chief suspect was a founder of a Satanic cult; many children at the day care center tested positive for chlamydia; and my client accurately described, without prompting from the federal agents, a very peculiarly designed room where the alleged ritual abuse occurred. The Army kicked out of the service the alleged mastermind, based on this evidence, but no criminal prosecutions went forward, after the federal judge ruled that the children were too young to testify competently.

During the case, I talked to a personal injury attorney in Chicago (who was jewish, if it matters) who had sued the Army over a similar case in Illinois. He told me that his client (a very young child of 4) had spontaneously told them the greek or aramaic name of a something that is identified as a servant of satan in medieval texts, as someone he had met. The child's family had no idea what this "name" meant. The attorney told me he kept the "satan" stuff out of his lawsuit, and recovered a very mediocre amount following a bench trial in federal court.

Our clients were examined by a psychiatrist for the Boston child courts, who told us there was no question they had been sexually abused. We also had extensive evidence, developed by the Army CID, that they and many other children had been abused (I can't disclose this evidence, due to terms in the settlement). During that case, I also came across an attorney in the far north of California, who had filed a similar ritual abuse lawsuit against the military and who had been abducted by people wearing masks after she filed her suit and threatened with death if she did not drop the case. I also interviewed a former MP from the military base where my clients had allegedly been abused. This ex-MP told me that, after he began investigating the existence of a satanic cult at this base, suddenly experienced several very unusual acts of apparent retaliation (he was called out to a live ammunition combat exercise, ordered to bunk with 2 people whom he had previously arrested, and then denied re-enlistment on the grounds that he was 2 pounds overweight).

Also, I tried to talk to a former Satanic cult member who had filed suit against the founder, and she refused to talk to me (she was hardly a shrinking violet; she was a professional private investigator at one of the largest investigation firms in the US).

I found the case I worked on very weird. I should note that I am a liberal agnostic who had previously defended a school district in a lawsuit filed by evangelical Christians alleging that the school district's curriculum violated the Establishment Clause by promoting the religions of Wicca or Neopaganism (see Brown v. Woodland Jt Unified School District, 9th Cir.). So, my own experience taught me not to prejudge all of these cases as absurd, as you apparently have.


There is a rising tide of historical revisionism around the ritual abuse cases of the 1980s, as the details of the cases are lost amidst a false consensus about "moral panic" and "hysteria" - fed by the perpetrators themselves, who, like Aquino, are still active in controlling the manner in which these cases are represented online.
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Postby Dreams End » Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:01 am

Not to derail the Presidio/Aquino stuff, but you brought up some "wiki cleansing."

I was looking for a succinct summary of the Franklin Coverup and found this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_King

Notice, by the way, that this entry, titled "Franklin Coverup Hoax" is actually a redirect if you look up "Lawrence King".

Don't suppose you could "data dump" that medical journal article? I don't have access.

Also, if anyone has access to the wiki talk...they, themselves, site the San Francisco Examiner articles which I think has most of the allegations. I wasn't sure why that wasn't made clearer.

And FWIW, I'm all in favor of leaving out the O'Brian stuff myself.
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Postby biaothanatoi » Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:03 am

The journal article hasn't been scanned for full text yet, but here's some key passages:

p 236 The severity of the trauma for children at the Presidio was immidiately manifested in clear-cut symptoms. Before the abuse was exposed, parents had laready noticed the follwing changes in their children: vaginal discharge, genital soreness, rashes, fear of the dark, sleep disturbances, nightmares, sexually provocative language ("Go down on the doll - 69", "Get it up the butt," "Lick the doll's twat", "Hump on the doll") and sexually inappropriate behaviour (a four-year-old girl grabbing her oldder amle cousin's genitals). In addition, the children were exhbiting other radical changes in behaviour, including temper outbursts, sudden mood shifts and poor impulse control. All these behavioural symptoms are to be expected in preschool children who have been molested.

Of particular note were the children's responses when they were first asked bytheir parents if something bad had happened to them in the day care centre. One child screamed and ran out of the room. Another whimpered, "They're going to hurt you if I tell" and still another said, "I can't tell, or they'll kill you." Only later, after they were reassured that they would be protected, were the children able to report that "Mr. G touched my private parts," "Mr G. had me touch his penis," "We passed around a dolla nd were told to touch the doll in certain parts", "Mr G. took me to his house to see his beds," "I had to do something embarassing in front of all the kids."


We don't need the O'Brian stuff or the conspiracy stuff to make the case about Presidio - it's been clinically documented, although many details are lost because the case was settled out of court. The problem is that the good material isn't free and online, because that's not the nature of publishing in general. There is an asymmetry in the data between what's available for free online via the FMSFers and other perpetrator networks, vs what's available with a library card or access to online journal databases.
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Postby pepsified thinker » Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:49 am

yeah, reading the discussion, there are clearly agendas doing battle with each other. I don't know who's in what positions among all the participants, or exactly how wikipedia decides what to post, but a relative few people seemed to agree on slamming shut the door on anything but a 'hoax' version of the story, and conveniently merging Bonacci and L. King entries into the 'hoax' entry so it all dead-ends in 'hoax' land.

Just what does it take for someone to have that 'say' over a wikipedia article?
"we must cultivate our garden"
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Postby Horatio Hellpop » Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:05 am

It's ironic that the Devonshire fella who is arguing that for verifiability and objectivity refers to the conspiracy residing only in "the twisted mind of Senator John De Camp".

How do you verify the degree of twist in his mind?
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Postby biaothanatoi » Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:44 am

Hell, I spent two years trying to shift the Wikipedia article on Satanic Ritual Abuse to no effect. There's dozens of peer-reviewed studies on ritual abuse - prevalence, dynamics, relationship to other forms of abuse, clinical notes, symptoms, trauma sequelae, etc - not to mention numerous successful prosecutions. These were consistently rejected by the other editors as 'nonsense', whilst they linked to such dubious sources as 'religioustolerance.org' or quoted from unnamed 'Wiccan experts'.

I don't think it's a matter of disinfo per se. Unfortunately, neopagans and wiccans are very active online and they generally view allegations of ritual abuse as a new 'witch hunt' etc. Wikipedia has got a host of undergrad know-it-all 'witches' providing covering fire for Aquino, Freyd and other perps, and they don't really know what's going on.
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Postby Jeff » Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:54 am

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The Presidio, 1988 movie.

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:09 pm

Ah, I see. Wiki is intentionally manipulated but not Hollywood?
Interesting that this irrational viewpoint is promoted on this of all websites.

Category: Dramas, Action/Adventure, Action, Suspense, Detective, Buddies, Military

Studio: Paramount Home Entertainment

Orig Year: 1988

Image

1989-

In book publishing, LAPD propagandist Joseph Wambaugh promoted a book about a child care abuse scandal on the other side of the country that while a horror show still paled in comparison to Acquino's Presidio day care scandal. And, most importantly, it was not about Acquino. And, as is typical in decoy media, a female villain was found to focus on, rather like the media stoning Martha Stewart instead of Ken Lay or Lyndie England and General Janis Karpinski instead of Rumsfeld and Sanchez.

'Naptime: The True Story of Sexual Abuse at a Suburban Day-Care Center'
by Lisa Manshel


Book flap-

The victims were three- to five-year-olds, boys and girls. They attended the Wee Care Day Nursery, housed in a church in Maplewood, one of the loveliest and wealthiest sectors of northern New Jersey. They were under the care of Margaret Kelly Michaels, an inexperienced twenty-three-year-old hired as an aide and promoted to teacher one month later. And it was Kelly who distorted their childhood. She used nudity and group "games" to make nap time a time of horror.
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Postby Dreams End » Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:26 pm

For the love of whatever deity you choose to embrace..

We ALL accept that Hollywood is manipulated. ALL of us.

What is at issue is whether it is your theory which I shall not name.

Do you own any gray suits? Go look at one. See how it's not black but it's ALSO not white? Why do you think that is?

Meanwhile, I know I should not have responded as I hate to see yet another thread get derailed by you.
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On topic.

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:31 pm

Dreams End wrote:Meanwhile, I know I should not have responded as I hate to see yet another thread get derailed by you.


Note that I stayed on topic, the obscuring and cover-up of Acquino's USG-backed crimes. If you want to talk only about Wiki, then sorry for the distraction.

I showed you a movie and a book decoy event. (Just edited in the book.)

DE, have any interest in FMSF? I know you do.

That book decoy event pimped by Wambaugh that I cited was used in the MKULTRA cover-up campaign being ramped up by the False Memory Syndrome Foundation with an article and debating letters in 1991 issues of American Journalism Review-

http://www.ajr.org/article_printable.asp?id=2250
From AJR, September 1991 issue
Letters

Debbie Nathan Hits

Child Abuse Story
To the editor :
I was delighted to see Lisa Manshel's anxiety attack against me and other longtime journalists who've suggested that day-care teacher Kelly Michaels was falsely convicted of sex abuse (July/August). But I was mystified about why WJR would bore its readers with Manshel's hectoring.
Contrary to your characterization of Manshel as a "reporter,"....


http://www.ajr.org/Article.asp?id=2233

Rebutting Manshel
To the editor :
Lisa Manshel's biased discussion of the Kelly Michael's case ("Reporters for the Defense in a Child Abuse Case," July/August) really needs rebuttal. Ms. Manshel, who your teaser says "wrote the book on the case" ( the book, not a book?), seems especially upset that not everyone agrees with her conclusion, which was indeed the jury's conclusion, that Ms. Michaels was guilty. As the case is on appeal and strong evidence of improper questioning of child witnesses, contamination of testimony, lost or not recorded initial interviews, and questions as to the credentials and skills of therapists who were key prosecution witnesses have emerged, it would seem that Ms. Manshel has a vested interest in keeping Kelly Michaels in jail. Manshel misleads us by stating, in the sidebar, that many mass abuse cases have ended in convictions when it would be more accurate to say that most of these convictions have been overturned on appeal, as Debbie Nathan has more than adequately documented. The hysteria over mass child abuse in day-care settings is just that ? hysteria.
....
Finally, to assert that by publishing articles questioning Kelly Michaels' indictment and conviction Harper's magazine and The Village Voice have taken up her cause is absurd. Is WJR filing a brief attesting to Michaels' guilt by running Manshel's article?
Manshel's self-serving article seems to indicate her fear that her conclusions of guilt, in a case that is not as clear-cut as she wishes it to appear, may fall to an appeals court. She should be more concerned with justice being done. Nathan and Rabinowitz were.
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Postby orz » Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:40 pm

Deleting facts/info from wikipedia or adding lies is TOTALLY different from naming a film vaguely similarly to something else.A guy editing out stuff he doesn't like from his own wikipedia entry is a specific demonstratable case of manipulation with a meaningful purpose.
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Postby Dreams End » Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:40 pm

No, you used it to WHINE that nobody thinks Hollywood gets manipulated. But what you meant was, no one thinks Hollywood gets manipulated via the mechanism we shall not discuss on this thread.
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Read.

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:46 pm

Dreams End wrote:No, you used it to WHINE
.....
the mechanism we shall not discuss on this thread.


I used it to show the cover-up. Read what I posted about another day care abuse case being looked at in American Journalism Review and Harpars and Village Voice/

Speaking of day care abuse, quit sniping at me and look at the damn info.
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