Great Depression II - 30 leading indicators

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Great Depression II - 30 leading indicators

Postby whipstitch » Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:41 pm

30 'leading edge' indicators of the coming Great Depression 2

Every day there is more breaking news, proof Wall Street's greed is already back to "business as usual" and in denial, grabbing more and more from the new "Bailouts-R-Us" bonanza of free taxpayer cash and credits, like two-year-olds in a toy store at Christmas -- anything to boost earnings, profits and stock prices, and keep those bonuses and salaries flowing, anything to blow a new bubble.

Scan these 30 "leading indicators." Each problem has one or more possible solutions, but lacks unified political support. Time's running out. We're already at the edge. Add up the trillions in debt: Any collective solution will only compound our problems, because the cumulative debt will overwhelm us, make matters worse:

1. America's credit rating may soon be downgraded below AAA

2. Fed refusal to disclose $2 trillion loans, now the new "shadow banking system"

3. Congress has no oversight of $700 billion, and Paulson's Wall Street Trojan Horse

4. King Henry Paulson flip-flops on plan to buy toxic bank assets, confusing markets

5. Goldman, Morgan lost tens of billions, but planning over $13 billion in bonuses this year

6. AIG bails big banks out of $150 billion in credit swaps, protects shareholders before taxpayers

7. American Express joins Goldman, Morgan as bank holding firms, looking for Fed money

8. Treasury sneaks corporate tax credits into bailout giveaway, shifts costs to states

9. State revenues down, taxes and debt up; hiring, spending, borrowing add even more debt

10. State, municipal, corporate pensions lost hundreds of billions on derivative swaps

11. Hedge funds: 610 in 1990, almost 10,000 now. Returns down 15%, liquidations up

12. Consumer debt way up, now at $2.5 trillion; next area for credit meltdowns

13. Fed also plans to provide billions to $3.6 trillion money-market fund industry

14. Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae are bleeding cash, want to tap taxpayer dollars

15. Washington manipulating data: War not $600 billion but estimates actually $3 trillion

16. Hidden costs of $700 billion bailout are likely $5 trillion; plus $1 trillion Street write-offs

17. Commodities down, resource exporters and currencies dropping, triggering a global meltdown

18. Big three automakers near bankruptcy; unions, workers, retirees will suffer

19. Corporate bond market, both junk and top-rated, slumps more than 25%

20. Retailers bankrupt: Circuit City, Sharper Image, Mervyns; mall sales in free fall

21. Unemployment heading toward 8% plus; more 1930's photos of soup lines

22. Government policy is dictated by 42,000 myopic, highly paid, greedy lobbyists

23. China's sees GDP growth drop, crates $586 billion stimulus; deflation is now global, hitting even Dubai

24. Despite global recession, U.S. trade deficit continues, now at $650 billion

25. The 800-pound gorillas: Social Security, Medicare with $60 trillion in unfunded liabilities

26. Now 46 million uninsured as medical, drug costs explode

27. New-New Deal: U.S. planning billions for infrastructure, adding to unsustainable debt

28. Outgoing leaders handicapping new administration with huge liabilities

29. The "antitaxes" message is a new bubble, a new version of the American dream offering a free lunch, no sacrifices, exposing us to more false promises

Will the next meltdown, the third of the 21st Century, trigger a second Great Depression? Or will the 2007-08 crisis simply morph into a painful extension of today's mess to 2011 and beyond, with no new bull market, no economic recovery as our new president hopes?

Perhaps some of the first 29 problems may be solved separately, but collectively, after building on a failed ideology, they spell disaster. So listen closely to "leading indicator" No. 30:

At a recent Reuters Global Finance Summit former Goldman Sachs chairman John Whitehead was interviewed. He was also Ronald Reagan's Deputy Secretary of State and a former chairman of the N.Y. Fed. He says America's problems will take years and will burn trillions.

He sees "nothing but large increases in the deficit ... I think it would be worse than the depression. ... Before I go to sleep at night, I wonder if tomorrow is the day Moody's and S&P will announce a downgrade of U.S. government bonds." It'll get worse because "the public is not prepared to increase taxes. Both parties were for reducing taxes, reducing income to government, and both parties favored a number of new programs, all very costly and all done by the government."

Reuters concludes: "Whitehead said he is speaking out on this topic because he is concerned no lawmakers are against these new spending programs and none will stand up and call for higher taxes. 'I just want to get people thinking about this, and to realize this is a road to disaster,' said Whitehead. 'I've always been a positive person and optimistic, but I don't see a solution here.'"

We see the Great Depression 2. Why? Wall Street's self-interested greed. They are their own worst enemy ... and America's too.
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Postby Code Unknown » Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:08 pm

Image
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Postby Nordic » Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:26 pm

Your link is just to the home page for marketwatch.com. Do you have a link that actually goes to that list?
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Postby Uncle $cam » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:00 am

Greatest country in the world right? We're the good guys right? We're number 1! USA!USA!USA!!.

WHAT'S EVEN MORE ABSURD IS how many news outlets didn't pick this story up... Further, I've had this ongoing suspicion that that there is a methodical split in print verse web issues, where news agencies provide or most likely omit one set of news stories for another as a means of compartmentalizing information. A two-tier gridding strategy. A military model as it were; a means to separate, confuse and create signal noise via communication and information "systems".

Gov't Finds Child Hunger Rose 50% In 2007
http://www.newsnet5.com/health/18000875/detail.html

on edit, google is your friend (well, in this case anyway)
30 reasons for Great Depression 2 by 2011
New-New Deal, bailouts, trillions in debt, antitax mindset spell disaster
http://tinyurl.com/5m8tya
Suffering raises up those souls that are truly great; it is only small souls that are made mean-spirited by it.
- Alexandra David-Neel
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Postby Code Unknown » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:37 am

Nordic wrote:Your link is just to the home page for marketwatch.com. Do you have a link that actually goes to that list?


http://tinyurl.com/5m8tya
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Postby barracuda » Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:41 am

Why stop at thirty? Because it's a nice round number? That's the kind of thinking that got us into this mess in the first place!

31. Spam sales skyrocket
The most dangerous traps are the ones you set for yourself. - Phillip Marlowe
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Postby whipstitch » Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:58 am

Worse Than the Great Depression?
A Review

by Stephen Lendman

It's a minority but growing view, including from 86-year old former Goldman Sachs chairman, John Whitehead, at the November 12 Reuters Global Finance Summit in New York. As disturbing evidence mounts, he said: "I think it would be worse than the depression. We're talking about reducing the credit of the United States of America, which is the backbone of the economic system. I see nothing but large increases in the deficit, all of which are serving to decrease the credit standing of America.

Before I go to sleep at night, I wonder if tomorrow is the day Moody's and S & P will announce a downgrade of US government bonds. Eventually (they'll) no longer be the triple-A credit that they've always been. I've always been a positive person and optimistic, but I don't see a solution here." Powerful words from a man who "want(s) to get people thinking about this, and realize (we're on) a road to disaster."

More...
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we are moving from stage 1 into stage 2...

Postby slow_dazzle » Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:16 am

of the 5 stages of collapse laid out by Dmitry Orlov.

US local government is starting to collapse financially. From the most recent breaking news page on LATOC:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/17/us/17 ... ref=slogin

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02380.html

http://cbs2chicago.com/local/daley.city ... 63161.html

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1226711 ... lenews_wsj

http://www.reuters.com/article/domestic ... SH20081114

If local government has to cut back on services everyone will notice it, from people requiring social services to police response times.

It gets worse. Iceland is on the verge of major food shortages. Icelanders post on LATOC and they are beginning to sound very worried indeed. Iceland's agriculture is not nearly adequate to sustain the population and the sea fisheries are maxed out. Anyone suggesting Iceland would collapse this time last year would have been laughed out of the room as a kook. No-one is laughing now.

Go to Wikipedia and search for "Baltic Dry Index". It is a global aggregate indicator of marine trade - virtually everything has been on a ship at some time, whether as raw material, component or finished product. The hire price of a container ship was well over $200,000 a few months ago - it is now around $6,500; a few hundred dollars above operating costs. Theses things are best shown graphically:

Image

And cargoes are not all being unloaded at port. Ships own the cargoes they carry until they are offloaded on receipt of payment. In many cases payment is a credit note but credit is in short supply. In brief, global trade - globalisation if you like - has all but collapsed. Expect to see the first shortages early next year. Let's hope that we can hold everything together until an alternative, probably localised, economic and food production system is set up. Unfortunately, I see little prospect of that happening without major disruptions and grief, if it happens at all.

I recall anti posting about the unwinding of the huge amount of leveraged investments about a year ago. I think it was just after the first CDO's were marked down from AAA to junk bond status. I realised we were in trouble back then but I didn't fully grasp how bad it would be. Well, we are now moving from stage 1 to stage 2 of Orlov's 5 stages and it appears to be happening very quickly.

What really nags me is this was so predictable. Why was it allowed to happen? Intent? Stupidity? Greed?

I haven't posted much on RI for a while, largely because I have been spending a lot of time watching this mess get worse, virtually by the day. I know it isn't healthy and it is possible to become fixated/paranoid about the prospect of everything going belly up. However, I am now convinced we are on the verge of financial meltdown. (The economic meltdown is already here) It is the stages that follow economic and financial collapse that scare the hell out of me.
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Postby kenoma » Tue Nov 18, 2008 5:31 am

Here's another indicator:

Trader shoots himself at Brazil financial exchange

SAO PAULO, Nov 17 (Reuters) - A Brazilian trader shot himself on Monday in the open outcry pit of Sao Paulo's commodities and futures exchange in an apparent suicide attempt, the exchange said.

Paulo Sergio Silva, 36, a trader for the brokerage arm of Brazilian banking giant Itau, shot himself in the chest during the afternoon trading session, the exchange said, and hospital staff said he was in critical condition.

Silva was given first aid on the scene before being transported to the hospital, BM&F Bovespa SA (BVMF3.SA: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz), which operates the exchange, said in a statement without providing further details.

Traders said the incident happened in the interest rate futures pit, a raucous circle where on average $21 billion worth of contracts exchange hands every day.

Brazil's financial markets have taken a pounding in recent months as the global credit crunch has spread, causing massive losses for investors and companies alike.

Brazil's main stock index, the Bovespa .BVSP, has plunged more than 50 percent since hitting an all-time high in late May. The local currency, the real BRBY, has shed a third of its value since touching a nine-year high in early August.
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Postby Uncle $cam » Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:44 am

Further, I find it somewhat odd, that not many have even mentioned that the

U.S. Senate passed $612 bln defense spending bill without so much as a wink or nod as the financial meltdown was beginning to take over the recent news.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N17503088.htm

And now we see, "I'll Get Osama". "Top Priority" Obama Vows
http://www.nypost.com/seven/11172008/ne ... 139098.htm

nypost.com — Get Osama bin Laden! That's President-elect Barack Obama's mission, he said last night in his first interview since winning the White House. "It is a top priority for us to stamp out al Qaeda once and for all," Obama told CBS's "60 Minutes."



It's not a matter of whether the war is not real or if it is. Victory is not possible. The war is not meant to be won. It is meant to be continuous...The war is waged by the ruling group against its own subjects. And its object is not the victory over either Eurasia or East Asia but to keep the very structure of society intact.
-1984, George Orwell

What was that about Hope? Pandora's box, etc...?
Suffering raises up those souls that are truly great; it is only small souls that are made mean-spirited by it.
- Alexandra David-Neel
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Re: we are moving from stage 1 into stage 2...

Postby whipstitch » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:22 pm

slow_dazzle wrote:Image


Reminds me of this article about Volvo orders....

Q3 2007 - 41,970 European orders for new trucks.
Q3 2008 - 155 European orders for new trucks.
decline: 99.63%
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