Wapo Shames Democrats with Kick'em Comment from Holder

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Wapo Shames Democrats with Kick'em Comment from Holder

Postby Karmamatterz » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:02 am

This sort of stuff unfortunately happens too often based on my own observations at events. It's not one end of the spectrum that engages in this sort of disrespectful and obnoxious behavior. Both sides act like idiots with regularity. All in one short period though a new agenda is forming.

https://twitter.com/RealJamesWoods/stat ... 5657996288

In the video on Twitter the girl is taunting the old man who is standing peacefully, then she pretty much assaults him and tries knocking the signs he was holding out of his hands. Really? An old man standing there peacefully and she thought it was appropriate to interfere with his right of free speech?

Then this from Eric Holder:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... 9781e5c70f
“No, no,” Holder says. “When they go low, we kick 'em. That’s what this new Democratic Party is about."


That was in response to Michelle Obama's comment in which she expressed some class and civility.
During a campaign swing in McDonough, Ga., on Sunday, former attorney general Eric Holder notes former first lady Michelle Obama’s high-minded 2016 slogan, “When they go low, we go high.” Then he makes clear he disagrees.


Add to that a fascist in sheep's clothing Hillary:
https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing ... to-destroy
Clinton, who made the comments in an interview with CNN, added that "you cannot be civil with" the Republican Party because it "wants to destroy what you stand for, what you care about."


Like a petulant child she follows up with this:
"That's why I believe, if we are fortunate enough to win back the House and or the Senate, that's when civility can start again. But until then, the only thing that the Republicans seem to recognize and respect is strength," Clinton said.


Only if she (the party) gets their way then civility can start again. Wow. So classy. Now she comes off just like Trump and all the idiotic crap he says.

The far left Democrats wonder why there is so much push back from conservatives when they preach and act like this. All this will only galvanize the conservatives in the GOP and make them more determined to vote in the midterms. These calls for lack of civility don't bring about respectful discourse but only encourage rude, disrespectful and immature behavior. People need to get their shit together and learn how to behave like adults instead of a child that doesn't get their way then throws a tantrum.
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Re: The New Civility from the Left - Kick'em

Postby American Dream » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:30 am

Ho-hum, not a very convincing argument.
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Re: The New Civility from the Left - Kick'em

Postby DrEvil » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:35 am

The problem is that all the things you're complaining about is business as usual for the right-wing/republican party. They don't give a fuck about civility or basic human decency, they just want to own the libtards. You can't play by the rules against someone who consistently cheats and expect to win.

One side shouts at people and knocks down signs (and yes, punches the occasional nazi. Boo-fucking-hoo). The other side plows cars through crowds ("good people") and defends pedophiles and rapists ("Great people! MAGA!").
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Re: The New Civility from the Left - Kick'em

Postby Karmamatterz » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:40 am

Civility can be boring, but it's a better alternative to physically assaulting those you disagree with.

An ideology that has declared anything outside itself to be “not ok” leads to extremism. It's the extreme left and right that find civility boring and would rather scream, punch or kick others they disagree with. I learned as a child from my parents and at school that kicking, screaming and punching your siblings, classmates or neighbors wasn't appropriate behavior.
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Re: The New Civility from the Left - Kick'em

Postby Karmamatterz » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:51 am

The problem is that all the things you're complaining about is business as usual for the right-wing/republican party.


That is a factual incorrect statement.

Mainstream conservatives, like mainstream liberals, are not out engaging in this type of behavior in general. The reason for the post was that two significant Democrats who are supposedly representative of the mainstream are now advocating for crappy behavior. As mentioned, the extreme sides of left and right act like assholes.

Labeling all members of the Democrat and Republican party as extremist is an incredible poor observation. Both parties have many sane, reasonable and decent people in them. It's the fringe elements that in general act like fascist thugs of both the left and right. In case you aren't aware there are plenty of moderate Republicans, as well as Democrats that are not out in the streets punching and ripping signs out of other people's hand.

Dr. Evil, you really think it was mature appropriate behavior to rip the signs out of the old man's hands? I would like you to explain how disrespecting the elderly is in anyway mature appropriate behavior for an adult. The girl dancing around the old man looks like an idiot, but that's her choice to dance around like that. Assaulting the guy and infringing on his peaceful demonstration is in no way appropriate. Only fascists would think that is acceptable.
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Re: The New Civility from the Left - Kick'em

Postby DrEvil » Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:38 pm

Karmamatterz » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:51 pm wrote:
The problem is that all the things you're complaining about is business as usual for the right-wing/republican party.


That is a factual incorrect statement.


[hyperbole]How many right-wing terrorist attacks have there been in the US compared to left-wing terrorist attacks in the last couple of decades?[/hyperbole]

The right puts on a smug face and pretends to be civil, while behind the scenes they're engaging in fun stuff like gerrymandering, voter suppression, and giving the country away to corporations.

Mainstream conservatives, like mainstream liberals, are not out engaging in this type of behavior in general. The reason for the post was that two significant Democrats who are supposedly representative of the mainstream are now advocating for crappy behavior. As mentioned, the extreme sides of left and right act like assholes.


Mainstream conservatives presumably support the republican party. If they do then they're, at the very least, not bothered enough to do something about the party supporting people like Roy Moore, or the president saying there were good people on both sides when there were literal (self-proclaimed) nazis marching in the streets, or giving tax cuts to the rich while fucking over everyone else. And you're upset that someone takes a swipe at a sign, or that democrats (the ones you mention aren't even remotely left wing) are sick of the republicans playing dirty (Merrick Garland vs. Kavanaugh for one prominent example) and decided to give some back?

The republican party today is nothing but a front for corporate interests (ALEC), dominionists (Pence and friends) and racists (Southern Strategy).

Labeling all members of the Democrat and Republican party as extremist is an incredible poor observation. Both parties have many sane, reasonable and decent people in them. It's the fringe elements that in general act like fascist thugs of both the left and right. In case you aren't aware there are plenty of moderate Republicans, as well as Democrats that are not out in the streets punching and ripping signs out of other people's hand.

Dr. Evil, you really think it was mature appropriate behavior to rip the signs out of the old man's hands? I would like you to explain how disrespecting the elderly is in anyway mature appropriate behavior for an adult. The girl dancing around the old man looks like an idiot, but that's her choice to dance around like that. Assaulting the guy and infringing on his peaceful demonstration is in no way appropriate. Only fascists would think that is acceptable.


Respect should be earned, not expected. I'm generally in favor of respecting the elderly, but not if they're behaving like assholes.
The old guy in the video was clearly out to provoke people, and you're shocked and outraged that someone was provoked.
No, she shouldn't have tried to take his sign, but I'm not really surprised that she did, and I don't feel at all sorry for the old bastard.
He got exactly what he wanted and what you're falling for here: manufactured outrage.
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Re: The New Civility from the Left - Kick'em

Postby Elvis » Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:21 pm

DrEvil wrote:I don't feel at all sorry for the old bastard.
He got exactly what he wanted and what you're falling for here: manufactured outrage.


I don't see his sign as fighting words begging for molestation.

The signs say,

"china + abortion causes breast cancer"
"Trump"
"she is a good liar"
"arm teachers protect kids"

I'm confident the old geezer believes every word with all his...um.. heart.

The woman was completely out of bounds when she knocked his sign down. One Twit suggests she was paid; who knows? In any case, in another video in that Tweet thread, she's under arrest.

I feel bad that James Woods is such an idiot. :(
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Re: The New Civility from the Left - Kick'em

Postby DrEvil » Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:30 am

^^Fair points, although he must have known that carrying a sign saying "she's a good liar" in today's climate would be extremely provocative. But I wholeheartedly agree that James Woods is an idiot.

In other news:

Republican pair apparently pose as communists to make Democratic donation

Men visit office of Arizona’s Tom O’Halleran with jar of money in apparent effort to create link to far-left

Two young Arizona Republicans tried to make a donation to a Democratic congressman as members of the Communist party in an apparent attempt to tie him to the far left.

On Friday afternoon, two men who called themselves Jose Rosales and Ahmahd Sadia walked into the campaign office of first-term Democrat Tom O’Halleran with $39.68 and an urgent desire for the Northern Arizona University Communist party to be given a receipt for the donation.

The pair initially walked in to sign up to volunteer but had brought along a jar full of money that they wished to donate. After being directed to a finance staffer, they were told to fill out paperwork. In doing so, they identified themselves as members of the Northern Arizona University Communist party. They made clear they were not an official group but were holding meetings. But they also insisted upon a receipt.

When told they get only an emailed receipt, Rosales immediately scratched out one email and wrote another. The entire process raised eyebrows among O’Halleran’s staff.

Lindsey Coleman, the finance director for the campaign, then drove to the local Republican field office to return the money. Almost immediately, the man who identified himself as Rosales appeared from a room inside the office and was identified as Oscar. He accepted the money from Coleman.

Speaking to the Guardian, Coleman identified the second man as a field organizer for the Arizona Republican party and said Ahmahd Sadia was not his real name. Neither the Arizona Republican party nor Wendy Rogers, O’Halleran’s Republican opponent for Congress, responded to requests for comment.

Making federal campaign contributions under a false identity is a crime. However, as a dirty trick, the attempt to smear opponents by linking them to unsavory political groups has a long history. In 1972, Roger Stone, then a young campaign staffer for Richard Nixon’s re-election campaign, sent a donation to Nixon’s anti-war primary opponent in the name of the Young Socialist Alliance. Stone went on to serve as Donald Trump’s longtime political adviser, a role he left early in Trump’s presidential campaign.

The rural Arizona district was narrowly won by both Donald Trump in 2016 and Mitt Romney in 2012. However, the non-partisan Cook Political Report classifies the race as Likely Democratic.


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... on-attempt
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Re: The New Civility from the Left - Kick'em

Postby Karmamatterz » Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:38 am

Using your logic then what about this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Cong ... l_shooting

On June 14, 2017, in Alexandria, Virginia, Republican member of Congress and House Majority Whip Steve Scalise of Louisiana was shot while practicing for the annual Congressional Baseball Game for Charity, scheduled for the following day. Also shot were Crystal Griner, a U.S. Capitol Police officer assigned to protect Scalise; Zack Barth, a congressional aide; and Matt Mika, a Tyson Foods lobbyist.

A ten-minute shootout ensued between the shooter—James Hodgkinson of Belleville, Illinois, a left-wing activist[7][8]—and officers from the Capitol and Alexandria Police. Officers shot Hodgkinson, who died from his wounds later that day at the George Washington University Hospital.[6][9]


Trying to be objective we also have this repugnant attempt on another life:

Scalise and Mika were taken to nearby hospitals, where they underwent surgery.[10] Scalise is the first sitting member of Congress to have been shot since Arizona Representative Gabrielle Giffords was shot in 2011.[11]


So shall we use the broad brush stroke to suggest that all Leftist deserve to be branded as murderous thugs and terrorists because a wacko named James Hodgkinson went on a rampage and shot three people?

What is acceptable protest for you? A person can't just stand and hold a sign? You know in America some people have values that allow for free speech. Just because you don't doesn't mean others should be assaulted. Respect isn't a binary thing at public demonstrations. The respect being "earned" as you wrote is more about relationships where you have interactions in a more common way. There is no time for creating, or destroying rapport at a public demonstration. The thing about free speech is that it's messy and isn't always clear cut. When you start parsing it out and allowing for assaults and murder because you disagree with someone then you revert to mob rule. Why not just start lynching people and letting the mob rule? Why bother having any laws at all? If you fewlings are hurt just let the worst come out and punch whoever?

You can make claims I'm outraged, but I'm not. If I were outraged I would have chosen different words to describe what I was thinking. Disgusted is the more appropriate word. The point here is not to have a list of tit for tat that goes on forever to justify continued bad behavior. The point was that the "mainstream" as in Holder and Hillary were ratcheting up the rhetoric to Trump levels. We all know Trump is a buffoon who uses his populist rhetoric to incite stupidity. The point is to NOT go there. An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind.

This:
“If we could change ourselves, the tendencies in the world would also change. As a man changes his own nature, so does the attitude of the world change towards him. ... We need not wait to see what others do.” - Ghandi


Listen to this song:



Dr. Evil, I'm sure you're a good person. We can agree to disagree. After you listen to that song does it incite you to want to punch someone you disagree with? Or does it inspire you to think and act differently about those you don't like or agree with? I used to be so passionate about peace and justice that I used think like you do. When I incorporated yoga into my life I changed, in many ways. When I was an instructor I sometimes played this song during my classes. The words stuck with me and I mellowed out from wanting a top down approach to peace. I realized it had to come from within. If I couldn't tolerate others and be a peaceful man then I surely couldn't expect others to civil and work in different ways to bring peace into our lives and our world.

What if....at a demonstration like that the girl had approached the old man and extended her hand out to him and said: "I strongly disagree with you. What is the middle way to working together?" Sure, that might seem ridiculous to you, but what if more people did that? What if a lot of people did that?

This:
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Re: The New Civility from the Left - Kick'em

Postby seemslikeadream » Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:12 am

minority rule always has to display violence

minority as in the old white men republicans

if you dems don't start acting civil Wagner is gonna stomp on your faces :D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hue2mBnaP5Q


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Re: The New Civility from the Left - Kick'em

Postby thrulookingglass » Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:20 pm

There is no left, there is no right, there is simply right and wrong. False dichotomies provide the illusion of choice. Political parties are imaginary, defined by those who choose to view them through whatever tint their own lense lends them.
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Re: The New Civility from the Left - Kick'em

Postby JackRiddler » Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:53 pm

Karmamatterz » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:02 am wrote:Then this from Eric Holder:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... 9781e5c70f
“No, no,” Holder says. “When they go low, we kick 'em. That’s what this new Democratic Party is about."


So now, are you a little unpaid whore repeating the latest FOXNEWS attack point on Rigorous Intuition? (And then you call a Democrat "left," too?) He said kick, that's violent, huh huh huh huh.

Is this your first encounter with words?

Anyone dumb enough to still be using "both sides" rhetoric (as if there are two sides) needs to go hang out elsewhere. This board isn't really supposed to be a debate with the dumbest, least-informed points of view, or an education for people who pretend they can't even understand the meanings of simple statements. There's plenty of space for that elsewhere. Go find your place!

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Re: The New Civility from the Left - Kick'em

Postby Karmamatterz » Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:16 am

Yes Jack, I'm just a dumb dumb that don't know nuffin. I am so blessed that your superior intellect is a model that I should emulate. I'm also glad you have appointed yourself to the central committee for approving board members. Always grateful for your input and I will try harder to be more like you because you have set the standard for human decency and how we all should think. I'm so sorry for disrupting the echo chamber and hope you weren't triggered.
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Re: The New Civility from the Left - Kick'em

Postby DrEvil » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:52 pm

Karmamatterz » Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:16 pm wrote:Yes Jack, I'm just a dumb dumb that don't know nuffin. I am so blessed that your superior intellect is a model that I should emulate. I'm also glad you have appointed yourself to the central committee for approving board members. Always grateful for your input and I will try harder to be more like you because you have set the standard for human decency and how we all should think. I'm so sorry for disrupting the echo chamber and hope you weren't triggered.


Well, you did interrupt our echo chamber with talking points from another echo chamber that is diametrically opposed to everything most of the posters here stand for.

Considering your "can't we all just get along" refrain you might also want to reconsider your thread title.

As for your original point:
The way I see it is that the republican party (and by extension, most American conservatives) is morally bankrupt. If something is good for the American people you can take it as given that they will do the opposite. If you're a conservative and still vote for them then you are also morally bankrupt, even if you're otherwise a decent person in your daily life. To go full Godwin for a minute - it's like voting for Hitler because you think the Volkswagen is an awesome car, all the while proclaiming that all that Holocaust business isn't very nice and you don't agree with it, but good cars are important, and why is everyone being so mean?

I see no reason whatsoever to be civil to people like that. If you tolerate intolerance intolerance wins.
Punching them is going a bit far (unless you're an actual Nazi. As the poem goes: "First they came for the Nazis and I did nothing, because fuck the Nazis. They're the reason this poem exists"), but yelling, ridiculing and general contempt is fine by me.
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Re: The New Civility from the Left - Kick'em

Postby thrulookingglass » Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:59 pm

Psychological warfare. Don't do this here. Discourse should not involve personal assaults. This is the problem with society in general as well, macrocosm - microcosm. Fractal universe. Left, Right, Muslim, Christian, Satanist, Nazi, Jew...you who find enemies in one another, and they shall find enemies in you as well. Kindness is the thread that weaves us ALL together. The TRUE source of divine love is that ALL things require care. ALL problems in life are due to a lack of concern for one another. I've told you before, the divine Earth mother has one law: love me. For why would we ever hurt something we love? I spent my weekend picking up EIGHTEEN FUCKING FULL BAGS OF GARBAGE from the side of the road! Tons of alcohol bottles, dunkin donut cups, single use water bottles, gatorade. I traveled less than a half mile to pick up eighteen fucking bags of trash. Eighteen! Half a mile. Eighteen. Civility, care, concern, compassion, empathy...the cause of life is to end ALL suffering...not some. Believing in a God who will sentence you to eternal torture has harmed the entirety of consciousness itself. I shit you not. Violence is never corrective. Revenge is a callous way to act. Love and be loved, all else is folly. Will it ever, ever, ever turn out right...will it ever, ever, ever turn out right?

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