12 dead in Fort Hood shooting spree

[beeline]

They were reporting on GMA this morning that some of the victims may have returned fire. This would explain the 2nd/3rd shooter(s) story that broke earlier, and also the high number of casualties. Caught in the crossfire. Personally, I think this guy is an MK agent, or he was very angry at the returning soldiers and their use of racial epithets (Haji) and had probably heard stories of slain women and children etc. as he was giving them counseling. On edit: dehumanization of the enemy is a primary tactic employed by propagandizers and military leaders.

[Wombaticus Rex]

Wasn't there a member here who used to say something similar, maybe "Allah Akbar", all the time?

You realize this phrase is, like, hundreds of years old and "a billion people say it daily" type common?

Even in English on a forum it's not that rare. Hip hop forums I'm in, dudes say that shit every post.

[chiggerbit]

You realize this phrase is, like, hundreds of years old and "a billion people say it daily" type common?

Even in English on a forum it's not that rare. Hip hop forums I'm in, dudes say that shit every post.

Maybe, but this guy was a bit creepy. It might not have been this board, though.

edit: Almost as soon as I had posted the above comment, i remembered it was one of those MSN discussion boards, a brief and not a very active one.

[Luposapien]

[On edit: Duplicate, incomplete post deleted]

[elfismiles]

[barracuda]

They were reporting on GMA this morning that some of the victims may have returned fire. This would explain the 2nd/3rd shooter(s) story that broke earlier, and also the high number of casualties. Caught in the crossfire.

This finally makes sense to me. Friendly fire casualties, collateral damage... it's starting to sound like the military we know and love.

[Maddy]

Beautiful. QFT.

[Luposapien]

I'm trying hard not to fall into knee-jerk conspiracy mode here, but it isn't easy.

I will say that I can see how someone in the position that Dr. Hasan was in, undoubtedly hearing all kinds of horror stories from the troops he's dealt with, and equally undoubtedly facing harassment due to his ethnicity and religion, could get to a point where he would be seriously questioning where he should be placing his loyalties. Combine that with being deployed for active duty, and he may have felt that he was forced to make a choice as to what side of the conflict he really wanted to be on.

Also, in regard to conflicting early media accounts, I can see how it would likely be an extremely confusing situation on the ground, considering that the shooter/shooters were in uniform, and the potential for so many people to be armed. You have a perfect recipe for all kinds of mayhem, with nobody knowing for sure who the aggressor is, and everyone going into defensive mode. It would not surprise me in the least if a good number of those injured were shot by security forces, or just fellow panicked soldiers who managed to arm themselves once the chaos erupted.

Still, I can't shake the feeling that this is just all a bit too convenient on too many levels for those who want to perpetuate the ongoing wars. It's also hard to imagine that Hasan wouldn't be very aware of how an action such as this would be played in the mass media, and how it would feed into the worst stereotypes and fears that are being constantly exploited by said media to keep the public riled up in support of ongoing military action.

In any case, a tragic event that is, almost certainly, going to be used to further the even greater ongoing tragedy of the imperial wars currently underway. Perhaps, as C2W says, it could be much worse, but it damn sure isn't gonna be good.

[justdrew]

this whole mass shooting thing is out of control and deeply fucked up. if this keeps up, there's going to have to be major changes. this may demand some kind of substantial reaction for better or worse, checkpoints and security guards everywhere just for starters maybe?

I strongly disagree.

That "solution" is exactly the paranoid mind-set that creates a totalitarian Police State.

You don't eliminate the by-product of oppression by further increasing the level and scope of the oppression.

oh I know, I'm not in favor of that kinda response, but it's all too possible that's what may result if this trend picks up any more steam.

[crikkett]

So the guy grew up in Navy hotbed Roanoke and went to Virginia Tech and works as a military psychiatrist. And he snaps and goes on a shooting rampage. Uh huh.

To add to that, it would appear from my own research that many of the MC programs in the late 1970s and early 1980s (when he would've been exposed to them) had been transferred to the Navy.

Quick send me a picture of a cat wrapped in tinfoil. For shame.....

For the record, I knew several lifelong military types who could barely keep themselves together.

Cognitive Dissonance is something that military personnel have to deal with all the time and it's worse if you're intelligent. If you start getting into trouble, your life becomes hell on earth. You can't get out of the military easily, so to a great extent, you're powerless.

Here's a recipe for disaster: Take a man who's not coping well. Heat up his dissonance with training to treat PTSD. Let him simmer in a job where he's around tortured souls day in and day out, and prepare to send him to the same hell his clients came from. Add access to both weaponry and psychiatric medicine, and the probability of a psychotic episode approaches 1.

[23]

Many psychiatrists tend to self-medicate themselves.

Rarely does a psychiatrist see another psychiatrist.

They rather self-medicate themselves.

I'd like to know what drugs were in his system.

[barracuda]

I'd like to know exactly how many of the deaths and injuries were caused by return fire. I've been reading that several individuals were shot more than once, making the 43 casualties an underestimation of the number of actual hits. The female civilian police office managed to shoot him four times and bring him down, but her hits were the only ones scored on the Major.

[n0x23]

I'd like to know what drugs were in his system.

Or, perhaps Hasan was pulling down a six figure income (as his cousin stated), was becoming further opposed and disgusted with the manipulation and sacrifice of American Soldiers and the slaughter of innocent men women and children, all in the name of fascist corporatism, verbally and virtually expressed this dissatisfaction, as a result, they were going to send him to the front-lines to guard the CIA's poppy fields or Haliburton's concrete castle as punishment, and he snapped?

[Maddy]

I look around other forums and can't believe how many people are falling for this, hook, line and sinker, that its "another terrorist attack". And I don't have the wherewithall to even attempt to confront that opinion, its so rampant.

[beeline]

Maddy, don't bother banging your head on that wall. I've found that most people believe what they want to believe.