Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

[Spiro C. Thiery]

Life is such a cliché. That which unites us can but reveal the always deeper rifts — gamed & turfed by tPtB, sure. But still. None of us little people should be shaming, lowkey or otherwise, anybody who is legit afraid of infecting others or, by implication or otherwise, people who are weary of having their every mode of behaviour dictated via the mass-destructive manufactured consensus. Just as anybody should be able to see the symbolism fraught with contradictions.

[0_0]

Joe, you'll maybe know this quote by french statistician, philosopher and theologian Blaise Pascal:

"All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone."

Please no one add a hashtag stayathome tag to it though! Please.

[stickdog99]

transjudgmental meditation

[stickdog99]

I agree emphatically that all sorts of risky precedents are at play or potential play. Some of the worst I can imagine in fact.

I'm also very confident that masks and social distancing help reduce transmission and save lives. Much like I believe about vaccines in general while passionately and totally opposing them ever being mandatory.

So I have no difficulty separating out in my own mind that one can 100% oppose any criminalization of what need to be consensual opt-ins and still passionately support the proposed measures.

Please *choose* to wear a mask in public places.

Please. Please. Please.

I have no problem with this. Obviously, I advocate breathing responsibly. With so many unknowns, why try to help out however you can?

Sorry, that was supposed to read: "With so many unknowns, why NOT try to help out however you can?"

[liminalOyster]

For those here who eschew masks because you are not convinced they are effective in reducing the transmission of COVID-19, I'm curious - what scientific "authority" or agency would you simply believe (accept, take at face value, etc) if they were to say that yes, indeed - proper masks are a demonstrably effective means to help reduce transmission of COVID-19 in a community.

[liminalOyster]

I agree emphatically that all sorts of risky precedents are at play or potential play. Some of the worst I can imagine in fact.

I'm also very confident that masks and social distancing help reduce transmission and save lives. Much like I believe about vaccines in general while passionately and totally opposing them ever being mandatory.

So I have no difficulty separating out in my own mind that one can 100% oppose any criminalization of what need to be consensual opt-ins and still passionately support the proposed measures.

Please *choose* to wear a mask in public places.

Please. Please. Please.

I have no problem with this. Obviously, I advocate breathing responsibly. With so many unknowns, why try to help out however you can?

Sorry, that was supposed to read: "With so many unknowns, why try NOT to help out however you can?"

Ha, my mind automatically placed your phantom "NOT" there, so I read you correctly in the first place.

[Grizzly]

Italian MP Sara Cunial Speaks the Truth About Covid-19

https://lbry.tv/@alittlebitofeverything ... HauGYitW2T

PeoplesTestimonies reposted

[stickdog99]

To me, it sets a ridiculously bad precedent to criminalize coming within six feet of other people or failing to wear a mask.

Not really a precedent. Look up Typhoid Mary.

Too many people, even many here, do not seem to appreciate the very basic idea that almost everyone will be exposed to this virus one way or another before this is over. All we can possibly do by steering clear of others is to flatten the curve. Are you really in favor of jailing someone who may or may not actually have a certain virus for potentially transmitting to someone something with the potential to perhaps harm this person at a time that is potentially not optimal in terms of available medical resources for this person to be exposed to something that he or she will soon almost certainly be exposed to anyway?

If you're supposed to be in quarantine because you've had close contact with someone who tested positive then yes, you should get slapped if you ignore it. Jail is probably too harsh unless you're being exceptionally stupid, like repeatedly breaking quarantine or coughing on people on purpose.

Why not criminalize sex? Sex has the potential to lead to all sorts of ill health effects. Aren't you willfully risking the health of your partners in the same sort of manner every time you have sex?

If you intentionally infect someone else with an STD then that's already a criminal offense.

That's a bizarre reply. I mean, if you put COVID-19 in someone's drink in order to infect them, sure you should go to jail. But how does going outside without a mask or coming within 4 feet of someone have anything to do with intentionally infecting someone else with a STD?

And I don't think you would bat an eye if any heathen who committed the high crime of refusing vaccination or not wearing a required mask were intentionally infected with disease as punishment. I mean, look up Typhoid Mary.

You started talking about the dangers of sex, I replied. Not that hard to follow.

I was pointing out that most of the things you mentioned in your wall of whataboutism and rhetorical overload already are illegal if you do them irresponsibly/wrong/stupidly, just like it now is illegal in many places to act irresponsibly/wrong/stupidly in regards to the virus. The same principle applies: your freedom stops where it starts hurting others.

I agree that some of the penalties seem overly draconian, but to be honest I'm not sure if asking politely would work. Too many selfish assholes and just plain dumb people in the world (Exhibit A: woman with breathing hole in her mask. See also: The Republican Party).

And I don't think you would bat an eye if any heathen who committed the high crime of refusing vaccination or not wearing a required mask were intentionally infected with disease as punishment.

Of course. If someone disagrees with you it has to be because they're a raging psychopath. No other possible explanation.

OK, but why always err on the side of effectively criminalizing nonconformity to your wishes? Don't we penalize people enough for you already? Don't we incarcerate people enough for you already? Don't we restrict people's freedom to control their own lives enough for you already?

[stickdog99]

I agree emphatically that all sorts of risky precedents are at play or potential play. Some of the worst I can imagine in fact.

I'm also very confident that masks and social distancing help reduce transmission and save lives. Much like I believe about vaccines in general while passionately and totally opposing them ever being mandatory.

So I have no difficulty separating out in my own mind that one can 100% oppose any criminalization of what need to be consensual opt-ins and still passionately support the proposed measures.

Please *choose* to wear a mask in public places.

Please. Please. Please.

I have no problem with this. Obviously, I advocate breathing responsibly. With so many unknowns, why try to help out however you can?

Sorry, that was supposed to read: "With so many unknowns, why try NOT to help out however you can?"

Ha, my mind automatically placed your phantom "NOT" there, so I read you correctly in the first place.

LOL. I couldn't even get it right the second time around.

[0_0]

For those here who eschew masks because you are not convinced they are effective in reducing the transmission of COVID-19, I'm curious - what scientific "authority" or agency would you simply believe (accept, take at face value, etc) if they were to say that yes, indeed - proper masks are a demonstrably effective means to help reduce transmission of COVID-19 in a community.

For me it's not so much the efficacy but the need that's in question and what should be decided upon first. In case there really was a totally new and unprecedented, very dangerous and very contagious virus spreading around and killing people left and right, were the hospitals really overwhelmed like never before and total warzones, then for sure i would be wearing a mask, to protect myself and to protect others, and i wouldn't need convincing by being fined anywhere between 250 to 10.000 euros for failing to do so. I would even wear a mask under those circumstances if it was prohibited to wear a mask!

However, this covid-19 pandemic narrative is so overblown that imo you can justifiably call it a total scam. As Joe pointed out: not even a 100 deaths with covid in Australia on a population of 25 million. Or where i live: 5000 deaths with covid so far (compared to 8000 excess flu-deaths in 2018), and with an average age of 82 (above the normal average age of death of 81!). And seen in that context people walking in the open sunny air by themselves wearing a mask and gloves all of a sudden is creepy. And can be seen as a visual reminder of how effective tv and social media are at behavior modification. Sadly though, in a lot of places the point is moot since you are now required by law to wear a mask and you risk a heavy fine or are denied entrance to services if you don't.

People are posting pics of wacko jacko to prove that wearing a mask is normal or even the "new normal"™ ffs!

[mentalgongfu2]

It strikes me that there is a large disconnect in our communication on this forum based on the specific circumstances people are facing in their various countries and regions.

Despite fear of pointing out the obvious, this may account for some of us talking more past each other than to each other. The concerns raised about government over-reach, for example, are largely non-existent where I live, as the government has basically made strongly worded recommendations that have been almost entirely rescinded as of today. Whether or not these are followed has depended greatly on the individuals and organizations involved. I will endeavor to describe the particular circumstances and my observations about it later on. Suffice it to say, this scenario is very different and leaves a different impression than locations where there are actual enforcement of penalties for violating social distancing or mask-wearing requirements.

[0_0]

sure sure mentalgongfu2, some territories are more of a testing ground than others, they're all reading from the same script tho. It's just that some are a few pages ahead. Where i live we're currently at this page (spoiler alert!):



Police officers (without masks) attack man for not wearing mask in supermarket

[DrEvil]

To me, it sets a ridiculously bad precedent to criminalize coming within six feet of other people or failing to wear a mask.

Not really a precedent. Look up Typhoid Mary.

Too many people, even many here, do not seem to appreciate the very basic idea that almost everyone will be exposed to this virus one way or another before this is over. All we can possibly do by steering clear of others is to flatten the curve. Are you really in favor of jailing someone who may or may not actually have a certain virus for potentially transmitting to someone something with the potential to perhaps harm this person at a time that is potentially not optimal in terms of available medical resources for this person to be exposed to something that he or she will soon almost certainly be exposed to anyway?

If you're supposed to be in quarantine because you've had close contact with someone who tested positive then yes, you should get slapped if you ignore it. Jail is probably too harsh unless you're being exceptionally stupid, like repeatedly breaking quarantine or coughing on people on purpose.

Why not criminalize sex? Sex has the potential to lead to all sorts of ill health effects. Aren't you willfully risking the health of your partners in the same sort of manner every time you have sex?

If you intentionally infect someone else with an STD then that's already a criminal offense.

That's a bizarre reply. I mean, if you put COVID-19 in someone's drink in order to infect them, sure you should go to jail. But how does going outside without a mask or coming within 4 feet of someone have anything to do with intentionally infecting someone else with a STD?

And I don't think you would bat an eye if any heathen who committed the high crime of refusing vaccination or not wearing a required mask were intentionally infected with disease as punishment. I mean, look up Typhoid Mary.

You started talking about the dangers of sex, I replied. Not that hard to follow.

I was pointing out that most of the things you mentioned in your wall of whataboutism and rhetorical overload already are illegal if you do them irresponsibly/wrong/stupidly, just like it now is illegal in many places to act irresponsibly/wrong/stupidly in regards to the virus. The same principle applies: your freedom stops where it starts hurting others.

I agree that some of the penalties seem overly draconian, but to be honest I'm not sure if asking politely would work. Too many selfish assholes and just plain dumb people in the world (Exhibit A: woman with breathing hole in her mask. See also: The Republican Party).

And I don't think you would bat an eye if any heathen who committed the high crime of refusing vaccination or not wearing a required mask were intentionally infected with disease as punishment.

Of course. If someone disagrees with you it has to be because they're a raging psychopath. No other possible explanation.

OK, but why always err on the side of effectively criminalizing nonconformity to your wishes? Don't we penalize people enough for you already?

Yes you do.

Don't we incarcerate people enough for you already?

Yes you do.

Don't we restrict people's freedom to control their own lives enough for you already?

Yes you do.

I am opposed to stupid shit and being a selfish prick. If you do stupid shit or act like a selfish prick I won't feel sorry for you if it has consequences. That includes things like repeatedly breaking quarantine because you just don't give a fuck (or just want to fuck) or you're bored. Bonus points for smearing the elevator buttons with your mucus on the way to infect your girlfriend.

We had the same kind of case here in Norway where a guy who was supposed to self-isolate after coming back from Sweden broke quarantine five times in five days because he was bored. He got slapped with a fine and a suspended sentence, because that's the only thing that's going to penetrate a skull that thick.

[Grizzly]

Plague of Corruption: Restoring Faith in the Promise of Science (Children’s Health Defense)
Kent Heckenlively; Judy Mikovits
http://www.libgen.is/book/index.php?md5 ... 2ACBD5B598

[stickdog99]

It strikes me that there is a large disconnect in our communication on this forum based on the specific circumstances people are facing in their various countries and regions.

Despite fear of pointing out the obvious, this may account for some of us talking more past each other than to each other. The concerns raised about government over-reach, for example, are largely non-existent where I live, as the government has basically made strongly worded recommendations that have been almost entirely rescinded as of today. Whether or not these are followed has depended greatly on the individuals and organizations involved. I will endeavor to describe the particular circumstances and my observations about it later on. Suffice it to say, this scenario is very different and leaves a different impression than locations where there are actual enforcement of penalties for violating social distancing or mask-wearing requirements.

Yep. In California, I am complaining because people are acting like they are members of the mask gestapo because their Democratic party leaders advised this. But in Louisiana, I hear that people are coughing on one another because California's Democratic party leaders advised against this.

Still, nobody I have talked to actually knows anybody who has died of COVID-19 in either state.