Re: A New Europe: Anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, Nation-State
Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:29 am
by American Dream
jakell » Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:21 am wrote:AD I asked you earlier what you thought of my suggestion that RI could be more accurately described as a non-fascist board rather than 'anti-fascist', any chance of an answer?
I gave you an answer to your question, "AD, what did you make of my suggestion that 'non-fascist' is a more useful term than 'anti-fascist' in the board's present form?", a few hours ago:
"I think it's more useful to the Third Positionist Nazi type propaganda, which you seem to want to promote here, albeit very carefully, so far..."
Re: A New Europe: Anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, Nation-State
Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:33 am
by Sounder
coffin_dodger » 04 Feb 2014 13:31 wrote:
AD, part of the problem (for me) with anti-fascist literature (and thinking) is the combatative nature of its content - it can lower itself in tone to that of fascist incitement mentality iteself. I don't read all the articles you link to, but in those which I have, many have an underlying tone of palpable intolerance of fellow human beings that happen to have warped views on the world.
No need to go to the articles to get the underlying tone of palpable intolerance of fellow human beings.
AD seems to like to think of himself as an imperious presence with no need to answer for his slander or projective overlay imposed on the thinking of others. Oh, big scary monster. While AD may enjoy the anti-fascist tag, he does nothing for the non-fascist cause because he does not, -well, act like a non-fascist. He is all form, no substance.
There was one recently in which the word 'scumbag' was used repeatedly to describe an anti-semite. The vitriol displayed in these articles is not a glowing reference for real change - it makes me suspect that if anti-fascists had their way, all the fascists would be swinging from the same lampposts reserved for themselves - should Fascists take power.
hmmm, looks like a duck
simper occultus wrote…
......you'll find that when "anti-fascist" is just code for Socialist Workers Party or any other similar fringe groupuscules who hang around the high street shops selling newspapers in their authentic "proletarian worker" donkey-jackets, bearing in mind this guise is about the only way they get anyone to take any notice of them.....quite understandable really ....channelling all that bitterness of rejection into a useful motivational energy-source.....
Truth is a bitch.
Re: A New Europe: Anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, Nation-State
jakell » Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:21 am wrote:AD I asked you earlier what you thought of my suggestion that RI could be more accurately described as a non-fascist board rather than 'anti-fascist', any chance of an answer?
I gave you an answer to your question "AD, what did you make of my suggestion that 'non-fascist' is a more useful term than 'anti-fascist' in the board's present form?" a few hours ago:
"I think it's more useful to the Third Positionist Nazi type propaganda, which you seem to want to promote here, albeit very carefully, so far..."
Oh I see, this didn't look like an answer to me, but if you say it is....
I'll rephrase it and ask how accurate that change of labeling is, based upon the context I gave in my last post.
This is really about RI in general, so no outside speculation should be necessary
Re: A New Europe: Anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, Nation-State
Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:40 am
by jakell
coffin_dodger » Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:31 pm wrote:
AD, part of the problem (for me) with anti-fascist literature (and thinking) is the combatative nature of its content - it can lower itself in tone to that of fascist incitement mentality iteself. I don't read all the articles you link to, but in those which I have, many have an underlying tone of palpable intolerance of fellow human beings that happen to have warped views on the world. There was one recently in which the word 'scumbag' was used repeatedly to describe an anti-semite. The vitriol displayed in these articles is not a glowing reference for real change - it makes me suspect that if anti-fascists had their way, all the fascists would be swinging from the same lampposts reserved for themselves - should Fascists take power.
This is a paradigm that needs scrutiny if there is to be meaningful, sweeping change.
This is usually part of the polarised Leftist critique and a large part of this seems self serving to me, and ultimately ineffective.
The anarchist approach I have been mentioning lately offers more scope and a relatively fresh approach.
(sorry to snip so much, but this may be getting heated and I don't want to be too verbose and points get missed)
Re: A New Europe: Anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, Nation-State
Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:51 am
by solace
The "new and improved," RI truth: anti-fascism actually = fascism.
FFS.
Re: A New Europe: Anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, Nation-State
On BDF, I used to often point out to the more hardline nationalists how similar they were to their counterparts, and I went a little way into the psychology of this too.
It even got to the stage where they were borrowing the Left's rhetoric for their own critiques, at the expense of developing their own style.
ETA: I'm not sure how intentional this was, because using the Left's tools was a boast of theirs occasionally
Re: A New Europe: Anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, Nation-State
On BDF, I used to often point out to the more hardline nationalists how similar they were to their counterparts, and I went a little way into the psychology of this too.
It even got to the stage where they were borrowing the Left's rhetoric for their own critiques, at the expense of developing their own style.
ETA: I'm not sure how intentional this was, because using the Left's tools was a boast of theirs occasionally
Well of course dogs have 4 legs and a tail just like horses but that doesn't make them horses.
Re: A New Europe: Anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, Nation-State
Hmm facts are we are never free of racism- these concerns seem to play pretty selectively around here. Sounder apparently said "Fuck you" to me and none of the people who possibly might kinda, sorta support jakell's agenda said anything about that. There was a complaint mentioned about the use of the word "scumbag" (horrors!) in a previous article about the fool who seems to be jakell's main man:
KEITH PRESTON
Thursday, 12 May 2011 18:49
Once again we have a scumbag that tries to use Anarchism to advance his Fascism. It happens a lot, never works, but still we get these idiots who think that if they say they are Anarchists that makes it okay to be a Nazi. This happens often with the more Libertarian-minded fascists, the ones who pretend to make people find common ground in what we all have issues with, while ignoring our conflicts, which are always racism, sexism and/or anti-Semitism. The kicker: they like all the racism sexism and/or anti-Semitism, so in truth is they are trying to get the public to give them a pass on such things.
Now the Libertarians who do this are bad enough, but when you are someone that comes out of straight up Anarchist circles and think you can still be down with that while working and supporting Fascists, it's pretty much an insult to be surprised that people treat you like the Nazi you are. The blog Attack the System is all about this third positionist bullshit, and the fact that it is blocked by the Philiadelphia Library system is a good sign that it isn't fooling anyone.
Attack the System is run by Keith Preston, who also heads up some outfit called the American Revolutionary Vanguard, a group that Infoshop.org has listed among the many attempts "by neo-nazis to pass themselves and their ideas off as compatible with anarchism." On his Facebook page, he lists his political views as "Anarchist/Anarcho-Pluralist, Secessionist, Third-Positionist, Libertarian Socialist", so we know right away how much of a scumbag he is. But let's throw some more wood on this fire. According to the blog nostate.com, he likes to push "a sort of meta-strategy for anarchism which aims at pluralism and ecumenicalism and which suggests that all anti-state tendencies ought to unite against the principal enemy of liberty, the state itself, in preference to choosing lesser targets of activist action such as sexism, racism, homophobia and so on." In other words, we should focus on the problems with the state and not be distracted by what even we would consider the byproduct of those problems.
On the face, that would be a great strategy. Even the guy from nostate.com says that. But he also notes something else. Were we to ignore those "lesser targets" or sexism racism and homophobia, we will ignore the fact that Preston is a sexist, racist homophobe and that it is a part of his political agenda!
Hmm facts are we are never free of racism- these concerns seem to play pretty selectively around here. Sounder apparently said "Fuck you" to me and none of the people who possibly might kinda, sorta support jakell's agenda said anything about that. There was a complaint mentioned about the use of the word "scumbag" (horrors!) in a previous article about the fool who seems to be jakell's main man:
