rigorousintuition.ca

Blah blah National anarchism Blah Blah

anyone spot a big boogeyman being cooked up out of almost thin air? Take it from someone who has actually seen this sort of stuff from the inside:

jakell » Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:03 pm wrote:
The trouble with all the voluminous and shrill stuff about NA that's been posted on here is that it treats it like a really solid position, and I haven't really seen that in my travels, in fact I've only talked with one person who claims this position, it's quite vague and seems to mainly indicate a meeting point between right-leaning anarchists and possibly right wingers who claim to be anarchists, and TBH, I haven't seen such a meeting point that has any substance.

The only substance seems to be reinforced by so-called 'anti-fascists' who are using this unwieldy contraption to bolster their own 'anti' status. (this DIY 'hero' archetype is something I'm going to try and explore at a later date)

This sort of activity is not (practical) anti fascism, it is misleading invention and runaway fantasy. a sense of proportion is essential in these matters

jakell » Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:28 pm wrote:Blah blah National anarchism Blah Blah

jakell » Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:03 pm wrote:The trouble with all the voluminous and shrill stuff about NA that's been posted on here is that it treats it like a really solid position...

I know you saw my original post on this thread- and I know you can read.

American Dream » Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:05 pm wrote:
I know you saw my original post on this thread- and I know you can read.

Oh yes, on the one hand you are saying it is a small part of something.
But the entirety of your other activity (myriad long C&P's. plus repetitions included) serves to completely inflate it.

You aren't like any real anti-fascist I've ever come across, and the single minded blitzkrieg approach sours the subject for the whole board.

jakell » Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:15 pm wrote:

American Dream » Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:05 pm wrote:
I know you saw my original post on this thread- and I know you can read.

Oh yes, on the one hand you are saying it is a small part of something.
But the entirety of your other activity (myriad long C&P's. plus repetitions included) serves to completely inflate it.

You aren't like any real anti-fascist I've ever come across, and the single minded blitzkrieg approach sours the subject for the whole board.

I don't know who you consider model anti-fascists. Who do you like?

Also you (conveniently) seem to have forgotten that the reason why I was reading and posting material on National Anarchism was because of you...

jakell » Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:15 pm wrote:
You aren't like any real anti-fascist I've ever come across.

I'm not at all sure how many "anti-fascists" you've known, in what sort of capacity, and what makes them real to you- as opposed to the "unreal" anti-fascists- so this statement of yours rings hollow to me, at best.

American Dream » Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:21 pm wrote:

jakell » Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:15 pm wrote:

American Dream » Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:05 pm wrote:
I know you saw my original post on this thread- and I know you can read.

Oh yes, on the one hand you are saying it is a small part of something.
But the entirety of your other activity (myriad long C&P's. plus repetitions included) serves to completely inflate it.

You aren't like any real anti-fascist I've ever come across, and the single minded blitzkrieg approach sours the subject for the whole board.

I don't know who you consider model anti-fascists. Who do you like?

Also you (conveniently) seem to have forgotten that the reason why I was reading and posting material on National Anarchism was because of you...

You have been posting on National Anarchism for years from 2009 to 2012.
You have a thread called National Anarchists: Rebranding Fascism
http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board2/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=26213&hilit=National+Anarchists%3A+Rebranding+Fascism

That thread was actually a lot more interesting than this one. It is worth skimming just to be aware of the difference in tone.

Searcher08 » Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:24 pm wrote:

American Dream » Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:21 pm wrote:

jakell » Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:15 pm wrote:

American Dream » Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:05 pm wrote:
I know you saw my original post on this thread- and I know you can read.

Oh yes, on the one hand you are saying it is a small part of something.
But the entirety of your other activity (myriad long C&P's. plus repetitions included) serves to completely inflate it.

You aren't like any real anti-fascist I've ever come across, and the single minded blitzkrieg approach sours the subject for the whole board.

I don't know who you consider model anti-fascists. Who do you like?

Also you (conveniently) seem to have forgotten that the reason why I was reading and posting material on National Anarchism was because of you...

You have been posting on National Anarchism for years from 2009 to 2012.
You have a thread called National Anarchists: Rebranding Fascism
http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board2/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=26213&hilit=National+Anarchists%3A+Rebranding+Fascism

That thread was actually a lot more interesting than this one. It is worth skimming just to be aware of the difference in tone.

..and I thought it was me who had created this busy monster by merely mentioning anarchism in the wrong context, it turns out I had just woken a sleeping giant (apologies to the forum).

Maybe that other thread has things in perspective, it couldn't be much more so than the recent indigestible smorgasbord.

Searcher08 » Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:24 pm wrote:You have been posting on National Anarchism for years from 2009 to 2012.
You have a thread called National Anarchists: Rebranding Fascism
http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board2/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=26213&hilit=National+Anarchists%3A+Rebranding+Fascism

That thread was actually a lot more interesting than this one. It is worth skimming just to be aware of the difference in tone.

Well sure, but I find your comments somewhat misleading. I've pretty much always known I don't like racists and neo-fascists. I have been glancingly familiar with the existence of organized anti-fascists for decades. It's been over a decade that I really understood the problem in conspiracy culture with ideas from the far right. Before that I pretty much assumed nobody would want anything to do with ideas emanating from outright racists and fascists.

That said, it's only been since I came on to the RI board that my eyes were really opened to the deeply toxic nature of the problem. Even when I posted the article on Rebranding Fascism, I wouldn't say I really "got it" in the way I get it today.

It is really true that I've done a lot of research and reading on obscure Third Positionist type trojan horse movements this last month or two, and also on anti-fascist organizing. I'm taking this stuff much more seriously lately, due in particular to jakell presence these last couple of months.

Speaking of that: jakell, are you going to tell us something about those "real" anti-fascists who you know?

American Dream » Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:07 pm wrote:
It is really true that I've done a lot of research and reading on obscure Third Positionist type trojan horse movements this last month or two, and also on anti-fascist organizing. I'm taking this stuff much more seriously lately, due in particular to jakell presence these last couple of months.

Seems like it was down to me.

Sorry RI. someone should have warned me (you sort of did Searcher, but fractionally too late)

Welcome, jakell to short sharp enquiries.
Answer the questions, NOW
You, in case you have not recognised it, have just become... 'problematic'

http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board2/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=37657&start=45#p532627

I actually felt really sad when I read that, because the person who started THAT thread came across to me as someone much more inclusive of diverse ideas. For example (and I appreciate it's just a feeling) I could imagine my own assessment of NA being put in their and nattered about. Posting it here was not much fun.

Searcher08 » Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:21 pm wrote:I actually felt really sad when I read that, because the person who started THAT thread came across to me as someone much more inclusive of diverse ideas. For example (and I appreciate it's just a feeling) I could imagine my own assessment of NA being put in their and nattered about. Posting it here was not much fun.

I think you're filtering things in a very selective way, one that is quite self-serving, actually. That other thread was much more about people with an implicit consensus around anti-racism and anti-fascism working together to take the monster apart.

American Dream » Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:35 pm wrote:

Searcher08 » Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:21 pm wrote:I actually felt really sad when I read that, because the person who started THAT thread came across to me as someone much more inclusive of diverse ideas. For example (and I appreciate it's just a feeling) I could imagine my own assessment of NA being put in their and nattered about. Posting it here was not much fun.

I think you're filtering things in a very selective way, one that is quite self-serving, actually. That other thread was much more about people with an implicit consensus around anti-racism and anti-fascism working together to take the monster apart.

No, I felt sad when I read it.

Here is a question for you:
When you see the world, do you look out through your own eyes outwards? or do you see through another persons eyes or do you observe from an outsider position (like a fly on the wall)?

Searcher08 » Thu Feb 27, 2014 3:32 pm wrote:

American Dream » Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:35 pm wrote:

Searcher08 » Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:21 pm wrote:I actually felt really sad when I read that, because the person who started THAT thread came across to me as someone much more inclusive of diverse ideas. For example (and I appreciate it's just a feeling) I could imagine my own assessment of NA being put in their and nattered about. Posting it here was not much fun.

I think you're filtering things in a very selective way, one that is quite self-serving, actually. That other thread was much more about people with an implicit consensus around anti-racism and anti-fascism working together to take the monster apart.

No, I felt sad when I read it.

Here is a question for you:
When you see the world, do you look out through your own eyes outwards? or do you see through another persons eyes or do you observe from an outsider position (like a fly on the wall)?

I do have a point of view, albeit one that is changing and evolving fairly rapidly these days. I do try to keep empathy for other people's experiences and stay open to new perspectives, too.

That said, anti-Fascism and anti-Racism are enduring elements.

I wasn't clear on that - I didn't mean about your 'point-of-view' in the sense of an evolving political position, I mean 'point-of-view' in terms of literal perceptual position.
For example, when speaking face to face, are you experiencing being in their body looking back at yourself? Or out of your eyes looking at them Or in a 'movie director' position looking at the whole scene, so you see yourself and the person?

I would tend to be looking out through my eyes 70%, through another persons etc 20% and fly-on-the wall 10% ish

I am asking this in an aim to improve communication and how I structure communication.

Searcher08 » Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:49 pm wrote:I wasn't clear on that - I didn't mean about your 'point-of-view' in the sense of an evolving political position, I mean 'point-of-view' in terms of literal perceptual position.
For example, when speaking face to face, are you experiencing being in their body looking back at yourself? Or out of your eyes looking at them Or in a 'movie director' position looking at the whole scene, so you see yourself and the person?

I would tend to be looking out through my eyes 70%, through another persons etc 20% and fly-on-the wall 10% ish

I am asking this in an aim to improve communication and how I structure communication.

I aspire towards Buddhistic compassion but I would be lying if I claimed that I am sustaining perfect compassion when somebody is perpetuating the kinds of ideas that are strongly associated with a racist/fascist milieu. I do often keep compassion for the individual who has been misled and/or is somehow emotionally/mentally "hooked", but I recoil at the ideas and most importantly, I see, feel and know how some of these ideas can hurt other people, in very concrete ways...