Concerning the Jews by Mark Twain aka Samuel Clemens
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Nordic
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Re: Concerning the Jews by Mark Twain aka Samuel Clemens
Humans are kind of like cats. They're really cute when they're little. Then .... they grow up.
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
- 82_28
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Re: Concerning the Jews by Mark Twain aka Samuel Clemens
Nordic, on the other hand is anti-cat. In my household you would never make it. We got 4 of them -- 3 of them are cute and one is an asshole, arrogant, far roaming male.
But my vote on the Clemens thing is definitely anti-anti-semitic.
But my vote on the Clemens thing is definitely anti-anti-semitic.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Nordic
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Re: Concerning the Jews by Mark Twain aka Samuel Clemens
Yeah, me too.82_28 wrote:Nordic, on the other hand is anti-cat. In my household you would never make it. We got 4 of them -- 3 of them are cute and one is an asshole, arrogant, far roaming male.
But my vote on the Clemens thing is definitely anti-anti-semitic.
And as far as cats, well, I'm allergic, which probably taints my view of them.
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
- JackRiddler
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Re: Concerning the Jews by Mark Twain aka Samuel Clemens
Anti-anti-Semitic but full of the racialized tropes of his day, which he treats as givens:
"The Jew" is super-smart and industrious, therefore mostly deserving of his attributed success, but also skilled to deceive, hoard and exploit the physical labor of others, whom he easily outmaneuvers. Christians are patsies. They react and seek to shut "the Jew" out of economic life, so that they can have their own breathing room. "The Jew" is barely distinguishable from "the banker," a point Makow's layout lovingly emphasizes with pictures of the usual suspects from Blankfein to Summers to Soros. Twain makes no bones that "the Jew's" sufferings are largely self-afflicted, but unlike Makow writes with the intent of rejecting hatred and helping reconciliation.
It reminds me of Marx's "On the Jewish Question," which I remember as similarly failing to distinguish between "the Jew" and the capitalist behavior attributed to him. Twain's essay comes across as faux-naive and full of stereotypes. He commits serious factual lapses, of the kind very smart people and champion writers too often allow themselves, though they should not. I refer to his lazy use of dubious second-hand figures, such as that 85 percent of German wealth was in Jewish hands, or his assertion that the "swarms" of urban crypto-Jews in the US existed in far larger numbers than the Census count allowed, or what seems like a very cavalier way of describing the pogroms and massacres in Europe. Downright dismaying for an alleged religious skeptic is the use of the biblical fairy tale about Joseph in Egypt, as though it's anything other than apocrypha written hundreds of years after the supposed events it recounts, or as though it could possibly refer to the same people as today's Jews. Doesn't he see his reading of it reflects the contemporary prejudices he elsewhere decries?
His historical methodology is execrable, maybe even by late 19th century standards. Posted here, in 2010, as a newly-found "jewel," I must presume the intent is to start a flame war and keep us mired in distorted, racialized ideas of class society. Most likely chump will protest that it's just a provocative set of thoughts, innocently presented, worthy of a hearing (as though it's not all over the Web, like most of Twain's writings).
Who wants to define "the Jew" as the enemy?
"The Jew" is super-smart and industrious, therefore mostly deserving of his attributed success, but also skilled to deceive, hoard and exploit the physical labor of others, whom he easily outmaneuvers. Christians are patsies. They react and seek to shut "the Jew" out of economic life, so that they can have their own breathing room. "The Jew" is barely distinguishable from "the banker," a point Makow's layout lovingly emphasizes with pictures of the usual suspects from Blankfein to Summers to Soros. Twain makes no bones that "the Jew's" sufferings are largely self-afflicted, but unlike Makow writes with the intent of rejecting hatred and helping reconciliation.
It reminds me of Marx's "On the Jewish Question," which I remember as similarly failing to distinguish between "the Jew" and the capitalist behavior attributed to him. Twain's essay comes across as faux-naive and full of stereotypes. He commits serious factual lapses, of the kind very smart people and champion writers too often allow themselves, though they should not. I refer to his lazy use of dubious second-hand figures, such as that 85 percent of German wealth was in Jewish hands, or his assertion that the "swarms" of urban crypto-Jews in the US existed in far larger numbers than the Census count allowed, or what seems like a very cavalier way of describing the pogroms and massacres in Europe. Downright dismaying for an alleged religious skeptic is the use of the biblical fairy tale about Joseph in Egypt, as though it's anything other than apocrypha written hundreds of years after the supposed events it recounts, or as though it could possibly refer to the same people as today's Jews. Doesn't he see his reading of it reflects the contemporary prejudices he elsewhere decries?
His historical methodology is execrable, maybe even by late 19th century standards. Posted here, in 2010, as a newly-found "jewel," I must presume the intent is to start a flame war and keep us mired in distorted, racialized ideas of class society. Most likely chump will protest that it's just a provocative set of thoughts, innocently presented, worthy of a hearing (as though it's not all over the Web, like most of Twain's writings).
Who wants to define "the Jew" as the enemy?
Last edited by JackRiddler on Sat May 01, 2010 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
- JackRiddler
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Re: Concerning the Jews by Mark Twain aka Samuel Clemens
Cats rule and are the deserving Master Pet.
- Sepka
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Re: Concerning the Jews by Mark Twain aka Samuel Clemens
If there were a race, religion, social class or profession for which Twain didn't feel scorn, it escapes my immediate recall.
- Sepka the Space Weasel
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chump
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Re: Concerning the Jews by Mark Twain aka Samuel Clemens
Hey, I've been gone all day and was curious how this might fly. I thought Twain was right on (as always), and I don't that it was insulting. Keep in mind that you are far more well read than I, and I am not over intellectualizing this thing. Like Twain, I like to think that I can take people at face value. I grew up with Jews, and some of my best friends have been Jews. I've always admired how Jewish people raised their kids and treated each other. I can appreciate most of the stuff that Twain said - in1898; and project forward 112 years. It is better to read the original.
I gotta go again (Nuggets), but appreciate what you have to say.
Oh, I got to see Wilbur the Kitty today. He's cool.
Tomorrow.
I gotta go again (Nuggets), but appreciate what you have to say.
Oh, I got to see Wilbur the Kitty today. He's cool.
Tomorrow.
- barracuda
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Re: Concerning the Jews by Mark Twain aka Samuel Clemens
Aaaaand... hilarity ensues.chump wrote:...some of my best friends have been Jews.
The most dangerous traps are the ones you set for yourself. - [i]Phillip Marlowe[/i]
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chump
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Re: Concerning the Jews by Mark Twain aka Samuel Clemens
Whaa-at! That is funny. Because when I was a kid growing up in north Dallas, and what used to be referred to as "Kike's Peak" here in Denver, well of course I hung out with the kids who I went to school with and who lived nearby. Growing up, many of my best friends were Jewish. I went with one friend to a synagogue, and he went with me to church (Episcopalian - I didn't go for long).
But after I wrote the above, I was thinking: Who are my Jewish friends now? And I'm thinking. Dang! I can only think of couple that I currently see now and then. I haven't seen most of my old Jewish friends for a long time. So laugh it up. It was stunning realization to me.
But after I wrote the above, I was thinking: Who are my Jewish friends now? And I'm thinking. Dang! I can only think of couple that I currently see now and then. I haven't seen most of my old Jewish friends for a long time. So laugh it up. It was stunning realization to me.
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stickdog99
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Re: Concerning the Jews by Mark Twain aka Samuel Clemens
Moral to Twain's story:
If you snooze, you lose to the Jews.
If you snooze, you lose to the Jews.
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Nordic
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Re: Concerning the Jews by Mark Twain aka Samuel Clemens
stickdog99 wrote:Moral to Twain's story:
If you snooze, you lose to the Jews.
Did Sarah Silverman make that up, or just steal it?
She's the only one I've heard say it, just curious.
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
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stickdog99
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Re: Concerning the Jews by Mark Twain aka Samuel Clemens
[mark twain]Steal it? How dare you! She merely used her genetically superior honesty and resourcefulness to preempt it.[/mark twain]Nordic wrote:stickdog99 wrote:Moral to Twain's story:
If you snooze, you lose to the Jews.
Did Sarah Silverman make that up, or just steal it?
She's the only one I've heard say it, just curious.
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Joe Hillshoist
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Re: Concerning the Jews by Mark Twain aka Samuel Clemens
Isn't that the whole history of western anti antisemitism?JackRiddler wrote: It reminds me of Marx's "On the Jewish Question," which I remember as similarly failing to distinguish between "the Jew" and the capitalist behavior attributed to him.
Capitalists blame the Jews for what capitalists do and direct working class anger at them.
Then keep doing it.