rigorousintuition.ca

8bitagent wrote: I mean I fully accept life is often more bizarre and troubling than most want to admit...so I cant say Shurter, Cathy Obrien, etc are wholly untruthful. I just dont know...but I do think at times theres some people with hucksterish agendas.

I'm not saying Shurter is untruthful. I absolutely believe he believes what he's claiming. Oh, and he's gay.

Most MC victims are still victims. Very few are healed and of those only two I know are activists. Every group I've seen has at least one operational plant. The opposition is fully controlled. Civilians remain blissfully unaware, or don't give a damn because hey, nobody's torturing them in the middle of the night.

I shouldn't get started.

.....................

Benjamin Franklin is a liar
Franklin Mint is a mess

Word association games aren't helping anyone, it's rather like pissing on the victims.

Well one component that makes sense, is that a lot of these abuses are intentionally bizarre so that if someone goes to tell authorities they'll just sound crazy.
Though I think it's more an unintended situation since the abuser is likely really into that stuff.

It's heart sinking to hear people be dismissive, and to see FMS 'experts' add to the climate of dismissal. Even the wider topic of things relating to Franklin, most people now see it as "small town Christian hysteria" especially in cases like the Memphis three false imprisonment. Even the celebrity thing doesn't seem to work. You can get Clooney to pimp any agenda, but when Anne Heche or Roseanne Barr talks about RA type stuff, people just laugh it off. You add the factor of prominent people/well respected community members/teachers/etc involved in these crimes, and all the sudden its the victims who have the scorn.

8bitagent wrote:You can get Clooney to pimp any agenda, but when Anne Heche or Roseanne Barr talks about RA type stuff, people just laugh it off.

Anne Heche?

I don't think I've heard of Heche's claims in that area but I have a short video of her on tv talking about being a contactee / walk-in / channel / healer.

And its because of the overlap tween ufo / alien abduction and S/RA accounts that I come to RI as one of the few sane places to talk about either, or, both, and with the best sort of open-mindedness available online.

AlicetheKurious wrote:

8bitagent wrote:You can get Clooney to pimp any agenda, but when Anne Heche or Roseanne Barr talks about RA type stuff, people just laugh it off.

Anne Heche?

elfismiles wrote:I don't think I've heard of Heche's claims in that area but I have a short video of her on tv talking about being a contactee / walk-in / channel / healer.

I never heard about that, but in the late 90's controversy surrounded Anne Heche as she described in great detail longstanding horrific and bizarre sexual abuse she claimed her father involved her with.

Society dissociates and compartmentalizes the reality of ra/mc, very much like victims and some perpetrators do. It mirrors the role of abusive family. I've often wondered if there is a force at work, outside of the more overt ones we can observe, such as denial, scapegoating, and institutional failure. If memories are not regularly active in a victim, maybe on an unconscious level they feel less real for potential witnesses too. The frenzied brain waves of extreme trauma aren't bouncing around, affecting the environment, instead there's an emptiness, a blank space.

If there is a collective unconscious, perhaps it has its own walled off torture chambers, inside of which some of us are prisoners.

Project Willow wrote:Society dissociates and compartmentalizes the reality of ra/mc...

Your posts frequently make me think, but this phrase particularly.

Obviously individuals can exhibit signs of Dissociative Identity Disorder, but I'm not sure that I've ever considered that whole populations too might exhibit them. Perhaps I should consider the possibility that societal trauma has been at least one cause for the evident dissociation and compartmentalization in our culture.

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=124037&page=1

Actress Anne Heche says she spent the first 31 years of her life suffering from mental illness triggered by sexual abuse at the hands of her father.

Graphic and horrific account by Anne Heche of abuse by her father.

Heche's 'celestial' talk around that time may have stemmed from that. But 1998 also saw the mainstream reporting on Allen Memorial Montreal, with the terrible abuses
under MKU projects there. But since then you just dont hear about this sort of stuff in the mainstream media or even left wing alternative media. Anyone wanting to speak their account is often forced to go on conspiracy type radio shows that have spotty track records

Examples and themes of generational abuse, RA/MC/Cult abuse, church abuse etc seem so under the radar in the mediaphere, least in the west.
But we also have a very fragmented mental health system in America, where depending on what state you are in, funding and such is often sparse.
Most of this stuff you'd never read about from case studies, but running into someone who has taken that long personal journey through hell and back

Project Willow wrote: If there is a collective unconscious, perhaps it has its own walled off torture chambers, inside of which some of us are prisoners.

That is such a disturbingly accurate comment.

http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/jared/jihad.htm

Similarly, an article five weeks earlier in the Omaha World-Herald declares that, "Afghanistan stands at least a chance of hauling a modern, healthy society up out of the ashes of war and oppression," partly because University of Nebraska at Omaha "officials and staffers" will be "cranking up their presses in neighboring Pakistan" to churn out schoolbooks, all funded by "a $ 6.5 million grant from the U.S. Agency for International Development [AID]." [4]

Neither newspaper mentions that the bad old schoolbooks "were developed in the early 1980s under an AID grant to the University of Nebraska-Omaha and its Center for Afghanistan Studies." -- Washington Post, March 23, 2002)

8bit (or others who may have this belief also) I see you comment that Franklin happened but not to the extent Decamp's book suggests, can you, or others, tell me what in Decamp's book may not be true?

Project Willow wrote:Society dissociates and compartmentalizes the reality of ra/mc, very much like victims and some perpetrators do.

"Society" does this thing? Controlled media programming for the masses has no part? Hmm.

Project Willow wrote:If there is a collective unconscious, perhaps it has its own walled off torture chambers, inside of which some of us are prisoners.

Oh, "collective unconscious." Can you think of any...intelligent...influences on this "collective unconscious?"

Nothing to do with the last 100 years of psyops social control for the masses also used to hide the worst abuses?
I think you'rre characterization is diametrically opposed to history and science.

Just how would the "collective unconscious" be inoculated against the horrors described in the relatively highly-publcized Franklin Cover-up?
Does media have any role?
Or just a few plants in survivor groups?

How would this terrible example of abuse of children by authority figures...be hidden from children over time to prevent their shock and trauma from exposure to such knowledge turning anti-authoritarian?

Just what "plants" can influence the masses of children?

Alchemy wrote:8bit (or others who may have this belief also) I see you comment that Franklin happened but not to the extent Decamp's book suggests, can you, or others, tell me what in Decamp's book may not be true?

It's not so much a non belief, but a disbelief. I guess I just don't want to think the rabbit hole with the Franklin saga got *that* frightening. Though, I also have to say(if Decamp is telling the truth),
I find it hard a little kid in the mid 80's would know anything about Bohemian Grove let alone the name.