Huge explosion in Oslo

[cptmarginal]

I agree, cptmarginal. What exaclty links the island shooter and the bomb? It seems very improbable to me that perpetrator would plant/set off bomb and then leave the scene, drive for an hour, jump into a boat, all in order to shoot at kids. Why not stick around and shoot at the cops & medics coming to bomb site?

If perpetrator was organised enough to source the bomb ingredients and build & plant it, and know that the political party camp was on, they would have also known that nobody much was going to be home/around in central Oslo. Why not set it off on a day earlier, kill many more? It doesn't add up.

Well, he may have been anti-Islamic but he was also apparently a fervent right-wing "conservative" nationalist. Maybe the PM was his specific target, and that's why he would try to avoid killing unnecessarily. Maybe it was expected that the PM would be in the vicinity of the bomb before he was to leave for his scheduled trip to the political event on the island. And then Breivik went there after his earlier failure, to try and finish the job. OK - but I'm having trouble fitting the indiscriminate nightmarish massacre of kids into the equation here.

No worries, I'm not a frothing Mason-hunter, I'm only interested in it in the same way you are, and because it points to a confused fraternal-egalitarian-outgoing-social mindset competing against a hierachical-authoritarian-structured-interaction one, which must cause frictions. Plus the whole P2 thing, obviously.

Yeah, that springs to mind right away... Taking advantage of fraternal groups for their existing connections and structure in order to royally screw people over on a mass scale is basically like shitting on the ideology of Freemasons, it seems to me. Not to say that there's any evidence at all in this direction yet in Norway, of course

[Harvey]

I noticed this last night after the facebook page was taken down. Compare the original which I saved minutes after the shooters identity became known:

http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/416/ ... 0setti.jpg

with a capture taken just before the facebook page was taken down a few hours later while events were still unfolding:

http://publicintelligence.net/wp-conten ... 290254.png

There are obvious differences, most of which may be attributable to the fact that I wasn't logged in to facebook at the time, most of the additional information might have been available only when logged on. All the 'suggestive' personal information for example.

But and I tested this earlier, the addition of Modern Warfare in the later version can only have occurred if the page was accessed by the user, logged in to the account, while Breivik was busy shooting on Utoya, and manually added through the page options. If it was on his facebook page when I first visited, it would have appeared in the earlier version of the page, whether I was logged in as a facebook user or not, it couldn't have been hidden.

Someone logged onto Breiviks page and changed it, as events unfolded at utoya.

This later version of the page is now the one that everyone is quoting in all the media reports that I've seen.

Incontrovertible proof that Breivik was not acting alone.


In addition, there are now, unconfirmed eyewitness reports of other gunmen on Utoya, possibly wearing ski masks, which the BBC has been reporting throughout the morning.

(Edited for spelling, clarity and fixing links.)

[JackRiddler]

.

Harvey, neither link works.

Eighty children murdered in cold blood on that island. Absolutely horrible.

.

[Harvey]

Links fixed, sorry.

[Harvey]

.

Harvey, neither link works.

Eighty children murdered in cold blood on that island. Absolutely horrible.

.

The links are fixed now. When you've had a chance to look, it's worth considering why somebody took the risk of altering the page. First there's all the additional personal data, I can't confirm whether it was already on the page but not visible because I wasn't logged on. Perhaps someone else saved the earlier page while logged on and can confirm.

Then there's Modern Warfare 2, which has a sequence involving a Special Ops character undercover with a terrorist group, the player has the option of killing civilians at an airport to maintain his assumed identity.

(Edited flor typlo's)

[norton ash]

God, the damage to a small society like Norway is going to be staggering. All the parents, families, friends, neighbours, classrooms sharing the same wound of a murdered child, and that's only ground zero of where the psychic fallout begins.

[Harvey]

God, the damage to a small society like Norway is going to be staggering. All the parents, families, friends, neighbours, classrooms sharing the same wound of a murdered child, and that's only ground zero of where the psychic fallout begins.

Many of the parents still don't know the fate of their children as I understand it, because a number are still missing or not identified. It's unimaginably horrific. Though it can't bring back the dead or remove the trauma of the survivors and the families, I just hope that all the guilty parties are brought to justice.

[Harvey]

A more complete version of the later page is available here as a PDF: http://mg.co.za/uploads/2011/07/23/ande ... cebook.pdf

Possible second shooter (translated): http://translate.google.co.uk/translate ... rmd%3Divns

Further unconfirmed reports: http://translate.google.co.uk/translate ... rmd%3Divns

https://twitter.com/#!/ketilbstensrud/s ... 7769517056

[Nordic]

this is one of the most awful and fucked up things i've ever seen. outside of warcrimes, where such carnage is appallingly common.

none of it makes any sense whatsoever.

since they didn't kill him, and its norway, maybe they'll actually learn the "reasons" for this horror.

i've always loved norway ever since i visited it when i was young. it's a magically beautiful place. so lovely. heavenly. and it always seemed so removed from the dark churning chaos of the rest of the western world. i thought the worst thing to happen in norway in my lifetime was the radiation from chernobyl.

i'm really disturbed by this, also because i have a beautiful teenager at home. i don't even want to imagine what those families are going through.

[Peachtree Pam]

This reminds me of Columbine, when there were also allegations of gunmen other than the two boys...

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/eur ... 57328.html


Norway Police Investigating Possible 2nd Gunman in Mass Killings

Norwegian police are investigating the possibility there might have been a second gunman involved in Friday's deadly assault on a summer youth camp.

Police already are questioning one suspected gunman, a native Norwegian, but the country's national news agency NTB said Saturday that witnesses on Utoeya Island where the attack occurred have told police two people were involved. The man already in custody was disguised as a policeman, wearing a sweater with a police emblem on it, but the witnesses said the second man was not.

Norway reeled with horror at Friday's twin attacks that left at least 91 dead - seven in a massive bomb blast attack on the government headquarters in Oslo and at least 84 in the subsequent gun attacks on the youth camp, where several hundred teenagers had gathered as part of a summer program sponsored by the country's ruling Labour Party.

Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg called the assaults - the worst in Norway since World War II - "a national tragedy. It is a nightmare." He called the assaults "bloody and cowardly attacks" and said the island has been turned from "a paradise into hell."

Police are searching the lake surrounding the island about 30 kilometers north of Oslo for more bodies. Police say the suspect, identified by news agencies as Anders Behring Breivik, 32, also is suspected of carrying out the bombing that targeted the government headquarters.

Stoltenberg said the "brutal" attack on "innocent youths" would not take away Norwegians' feeling of safety. He said safety was a pillar of society that Norwegians had taken for granted, and he stressed that the main focus is on saving the lives of those hurt in the attacks.

Authorities have not determined a motive for the attacks.

...snip...

[Harvey]

The google cache (created about ten or twenty minutes after my snapshot) for his web page is still the first version. You can see for yourselves that modern warfare has been added later. Save it now before it's gone.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... ogle.co.uk

[DrVolin]

The OKC bombing killed 19 children.

[Jeff]

The omnipotence of Al Qaeda and meaninglessness of "Terrorism"

By Glenn Greenwald

For much of the day yesterday, the featured headline on The New York Times online front page strongly suggested that Muslims were responsible for the attacks on Oslo; that led to definitive statements on the BBC and elsewhere that Muslims were the culprits. The Washington Post's Jennifer Rubin wrote a whole column based on the assertion that Muslims were responsible, one that, as James Fallows notes, remains at the Post with no corrections or updates. The morning statement issued by President Obama -- "It's a reminder that the entire international community holds a stake in preventing this kind of terror from occurring" and "we have to work cooperatively together both on intelligence and in terms of prevention of these kinds of horrible attacks" -- appeared to assume, though (to its credit) without overtly stating, that the perpetrator was an international terrorist group.

But now it turns out that the alleged perpetrator wasn't from an international Muslim extremist group at all, but was rather a right-wing Norwegian nationalist with a history of anti-Muslim commentary and an affection for Muslim-hating blogs such as Pam Geller's Atlas Shrugged, Daniel Pipes, and Robert Spencer's Jihad Watch. Despite that, The New York Times is still working hard to pin some form of blame, even ultimate blame, on Muslim radicals (h/t sysprog):

Terrorism specialists said that even if the authorities ultimately ruled out Islamic terrorism as the cause of Friday’s assaults, other kinds of groups or individuals were mimicking Al Qaeda's brutality and multiple attacks.

"If it does turn out to be someone with more political motivations, it shows these groups are learning from what they see from Al Qaeda," said Brian Fishman, a counterterrorism researcher at the New America Foundation in Washington.

Al Qaeda is always to blame, even when it isn't, even when it's allegedly the work of a Nordic, Muslim-hating, right-wing European nationalist....

...

Then there's this extraordinarily revealing passage from the NYT -- first noticed by Richard Silverstein -- explaining why the paper originally reported what it did:

Initial reports focused on the possibility of Islamic militants, in particular Ansar al-Jihad al-Alami, or Helpers of the Global Jihad, cited by some analysts as claiming responsibility for the attacks. American officials said the group was previously unknown and might not even exist.

There was ample reason for concern that terrorists might be responsible.

In other words, now that we know the alleged perpetrator is not Muslim, we know -- by definition -- that Terrorists are not responsible; conversely, when we thought Muslims were responsible, that meant -- also by definition -- that it was an act of Terrorism.

...

http://www.salon.com/news/terrorism/?st ... /07/23/nyt

[2012 Countdown]

I'd read that Greenwald piece a few minutes ago. Very good.

I was also going to comment on how the scripts are ready to go into action. All day, and even late, on the CBS evening news, they were still pushing the Alqaeda storyline.

[DrVolin]

And of course the other major "fundie right wing" event, Waco, killed a number of children.