2014 Malaysian Planes Lost: Pacific and Ukraine

[seemslikeadream]

Zakheim CEO of Systems Planning Corporation

[jingofever]

Multiple hijack candidates? Not that I am aware of. So far, everyone looks relatively clean...

Bottom line: this looks like a "legitimate" hijacking, if there is such a thing… Did it land at sea and transfer its cargo to a waiting ship?

Not everybody has been cleared yet: Missing MH370: All background checks received - except those from Russia and Ukraine. A Ukrainian AND a Russian were on the plane? It is starting to look like this Crimea business has been a distraction from a joint Ukrainian-Russian hijacking. No doubt they ditched at sea, which experts have said would cause the plane to sink to the bottom without leaving a debris field, pretty much making any evidence inaccessible. Waiting for them was a submarine ready to take them back to Russia where they and Putin are now sitting fat in the Kremlin with twenty tons of mangosteens.

[8bitagent]

Plane swapping, depressurization used to kill everyone on board, remote control takeover, people from a tech company of interest among the passengers, multiple hijack candidates among the passengers, did the pilot(s) do it, transponder games, there was no plane, vicsims, belated sightings, it's really about the gold... why does this seem so familiar, and yet so distant? Did I miss any posts about military exercises or radar blip injects? Where was John O'Neil? Here's a vote for serial takeovers by competing factions and snakes on the plane.

don't forget..."What plane?" I'm waiting for people on youtube to start accusing the impossibly deep grief and anger exhibited by the families to be "crisis acting".

[8bitagent]

Plane swapping, depressurization used to kill everyone on board, remote control takeover, people from a tech company of interest among the passengers, multiple hijack candidates among the passengers, did the pilot(s) do it, transponder games, there was no plane, vicsims, belated sightings, it's really about the gold... why does this seem so familiar, and yet so distant? Did I miss any posts about military exercises or radar blip injects? Where was John O'Neil? Here's a vote for serial takeovers by competing factions and snakes on the plane.

Familiar because people tend to go out on a limb when there's no data. And you left out UFOs and space aliens!

But seriously, there are some obvious differences. This is not your standard false flag operation, in that there are no obvious casualties meant to incite the populace into a war frenzy. There may be missing gold, as there was in the WTC, but that's still not confirmed. And there are no suspicious phone calls that continued after the plane supposedly crashed, though there's a bit of misinformation floating about concerning the reasons for cell phones "ringing"--they don't; it just sounds that way. On 9/11, the ACARS shows one of the planes still in the air 30 minutes after it supposedly crashed--ignored by the government conspiracy theorists--whereas here the ACARS is taken as holy writ--the ACARS says the plane was still in the air so it "must" be true. If there's one thing governments do well, it's holding differing data to different standards. As for military exercises, there appear to have been none: another difference. The injected signals on 9/11 were part of the exercises, so, no, in this case there were no voluntary injects (on the part of the Malaysians), and the Thai data would appear to confirm this, so the plane really did change direction.

I'm not sure where the gold theory comes from, but indeed re: 9/11, there was even General Myers testifying how baffled he was at the "Phantom 11" blip spoofing/doppleganging the actual Flight 11 blip. But when you dig deeper into the NORAD and ATC tapes, you see there was also a Flight 93 spoof blip that kept going up toward Washington DC after the 10:15 AM crash of Flight 93. Somehow these injects showed up on both NORAD and ATC grids.
I've come to think of the air stuff from 9/11 not as standdown orders but some sort of programmed intentional mass confusion. I tend to also think despite it turning out to be a good PR story, that Flight 93 was suppose to reach DC.

[JackRiddler]

Of course Flight 93 was supposed to make it to DC - and hit the Capitol. The subsequent history would have been a lot worse - a lot.

[Iamwhomiam]

Did I miss any posts about military exercises or radar blip injects?

Nah, I got it.

Call it what you will, to me it is a mystery. For some reason I'm not getting anything but good vibes from the pilot and I don't think it unusual at all for him to have a flight simulator on his computer. Noting his character as described leads me to believe he was conscientious and practiced. Wouldn't you want a practice landing at an airport you never never before landed a plane at, or had a rough time upon your last landing there?

Nothing telling for me in his having a flight simulator program.

The passengers raise more suspicion in my mind.

It should be embarrassing to our wold's militaries, keeping silent when surely some know exactly where this lane went and some, maybe even why.

[justdrew]

Plane swapping, depressurization used to kill everyone on board, remote control takeover, people from a tech company of interest among the passengers, multiple hijack candidates among the passengers, did the pilot(s) do it, transponder games, there was no plane, vicsims, belated sightings, it's really about the gold... why does this seem so familiar, and yet so distant? Did I miss any posts about military exercises or radar blip injects? Where was John O'Neil? Here's a vote for serial takeovers by competing factions and snakes on the plane.

don't forget..."What plane?" I'm waiting for people on youtube to start accusing the impossibly deep grief and anger exhibited by the families to be "crisis acting".

I already covered that a few days ago

[justdrew]

well, this guy seems to agree with my initial theory, though goes further into detail.

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh ... ical-fire/
...
When I saw that left turn with a direct heading, I instinctively knew he was heading for an airport. He was taking a direct route to Palau Langkawi, a 13,000-foot airstrip with an approach over water and no obstacles. The captain did not turn back to Kuala Lampur because he knew he had 8,000-foot ridges to cross. He knew the terrain was friendlier toward Langkawi, which also was closer.

Take a look at this airport on Google Earth. The pilot did all the right things. He was confronted by some major event onboard that made him make an immediate turn to the closest, safest airport.
The loss of transponders and communications makes perfect sense in a fire.

When I heard this I immediately brought up Google Earth and searched for airports in proximity to the track toward the southwest.

For me, the loss of transponders and communications makes perfect sense in a fire. And there most likely was an electrical fire. In the case of a fire, the first response is to pull the main busses and restore circuits one by one until you have isolated the bad one. If they pulled the busses, the plane would go silent. It probably was a serious event and the flight crew was occupied with controlling the plane and trying to fight the fire. Aviate, navigate, and lastly, communicate is the mantra in such situations.

There are two types of fires. An electrical fire might not be as fast and furious, and there may or may not be incapacitating smoke. However there is the possibility, given the timeline, that there was an overheat on one of the front landing gear tires, it blew on takeoff and started slowly burning. Yes, this happens with underinflated tires. Remember: Heavy plane, hot night, sea level, long-run takeoff. There was a well known accident in Nigeria of a DC8 that had a landing gear fire on takeoff. Once going, a tire fire would produce horrific, incapacitating smoke. Yes, pilots have access to oxygen masks, but this is a no-no with fire. Most have access to a smoke hood with a filter, but this will last only a few minutes depending on the smoke level. (I used to carry one in my flight bag, and I still carry one in my briefcase when I fly.)

What I think happened is the flight crew was overcome by smoke and the plane continued on the heading, probably on George (autopilot), until it ran out of fuel or the fire destroyed the control surfaces and it crashed. You will find it along that route–looking elsewhere is pointless.
...

[Iamwhomiam]

Hope this helps clear up a few things:

[Lord Balto]

Plane swapping, depressurization used to kill everyone on board, remote control takeover, people from a tech company of interest among the passengers, multiple hijack candidates among the passengers, did the pilot(s) do it, transponder games, there was no plane, vicsims, belated sightings, it's really about the gold... why does this seem so familiar, and yet so distant? Did I miss any posts about military exercises or radar blip injects? Where was John O'Neil? Here's a vote for serial takeovers by competing factions and snakes on the plane.

Familiar because people tend to go out on a limb when there's no data. And you left out UFOs and space aliens!

But seriously, there are some obvious differences. This is not your standard false flag operation, in that there are no obvious casualties meant to incite the populace into a war frenzy. There may be missing gold, as there was in the WTC, but that's still not confirmed. And there are no suspicious phone calls that continued after the plane supposedly crashed, though there's a bit of misinformation floating about concerning the reasons for cell phones "ringing"--they don't; it just sounds that way. On 9/11, the ACARS shows one of the planes still in the air 30 minutes after it supposedly crashed--ignored by the government conspiracy theorists--whereas here the ACARS is taken as holy writ--the ACARS says the plane was still in the air so it "must" be true. If there's one thing governments do well, it's holding differing data to different standards. As for military exercises, there appear to have been none: another difference. The injected signals on 9/11 were part of the exercises, so, no, in this case there were no voluntary injects (on the part of the Malaysians), and the Thai data would appear to confirm this, so the plane really did change direction.

I'm not sure where the gold theory comes from, but indeed re: 9/11, there was even General Myers testifying how baffled he was at the "Phantom 11" blip spoofing/doppleganging the actual Flight 11 blip. But when you dig deeper into the NORAD and ATC tapes, you see there was also a Flight 93 spoof blip that kept going up toward Washington DC after the 10:15 AM crash of Flight 93. Somehow these injects showed up on both NORAD and ATC grids.
I've come to think of the air stuff from 9/11 not as standdown orders but some sort of programmed intentional mass confusion. I tend to also think despite it turning out to be a good PR story, that Flight 93 was suppose to reach DC.

That's pretty much what I think. I have always suspected that the Shanksville plane was meant for the White House. It may have been shot down because the passengers actually managed to take command of the plane and would have blown the lid off of the entire caper. There were fragments across a lot of territory that couldn't be explained by a vertical descent.

As for signal injection, there were a number of exercises going on at the time. It has been argued that the entire 9/11 planning stage was hidden behind the planning for the exercises, which also led to the exercise/real world confusion, as well as the lack of air cover while the majority of fighter jets were over Canada and Alaska defending against a mythical Russian attack across the pole. This synchrony was highly unlikely to have been simply a matter of luck, no matter how much faith one has in Allah. A major complaint about a conspiracy theory of 9/11 has always been the number of people who would have had to have been involved, a complaint that is nullified as soon as one begins to see the divergence between exercise and real world events as a late development in the process. And then, when those involved realized they were implicated in mass murder, the sensible thing to do was to keep one's mouth shut.

The gold theory is just something I picked up on--I believe--Reddit. It is well known, however, that China is in fact buying huge amounts of gold in an attempt to throw off dependency on the U.S. dollar or even to convert to the gold standard. Max Keiser, whom I don't always agree with, has documented this fairly extensively. Were the mangosteens just a cover? It's certainly a possibility. Do they rot all that rapidly that shipping them the relatively short distance to China by boat was not practical? Just searching around, I see that mangosteens are being marketed as some kind of health supplement. I always just thought of them as an unusual Asian fruit available in cans at Asian markets in the U.S., along with Lychees and the like.

[Lord Balto]

Of course Flight 93 was supposed to make it to DC - and hit the Capitol. The subsequent history would have been a lot worse - a lot.

It certainly would have made for a much more rapid transition to fascism, especially by requiring a series of special elections that would have been won by the most reactionary of candidates. Kind of a modern day Beerhall Putsch. Of course, it could just as well have been headed for the White House, bringing back memories of the War of 1812,

[Lord Balto]

well, this guy seems to agree with my initial theory, though goes further into detail.

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh ... ical-fire/
...
When I saw that left turn with a direct heading, I instinctively knew he was heading for an airport. He was taking a direct route to Palau Langkawi, a 13,000-foot airstrip with an approach over water and no obstacles. The captain did not turn back to Kuala Lampur because he knew he had 8,000-foot ridges to cross. He knew the terrain was friendlier toward Langkawi, which also was closer.

Take a look at this airport on Google Earth. The pilot did all the right things. He was confronted by some major event onboard that made him make an immediate turn to the closest, safest airport.
The loss of transponders and communications makes perfect sense in a fire.

When I heard this I immediately brought up Google Earth and searched for airports in proximity to the track toward the southwest.

For me, the loss of transponders and communications makes perfect sense in a fire. And there most likely was an electrical fire. In the case of a fire, the first response is to pull the main busses and restore circuits one by one until you have isolated the bad one. If they pulled the busses, the plane would go silent. It probably was a serious event and the flight crew was occupied with controlling the plane and trying to fight the fire. Aviate, navigate, and lastly, communicate is the mantra in such situations.

There are two types of fires. An electrical fire might not be as fast and furious, and there may or may not be incapacitating smoke. However there is the possibility, given the timeline, that there was an overheat on one of the front landing gear tires, it blew on takeoff and started slowly burning. Yes, this happens with underinflated tires. Remember: Heavy plane, hot night, sea level, long-run takeoff. There was a well known accident in Nigeria of a DC8 that had a landing gear fire on takeoff. Once going, a tire fire would produce horrific, incapacitating smoke. Yes, pilots have access to oxygen masks, but this is a no-no with fire. Most have access to a smoke hood with a filter, but this will last only a few minutes depending on the smoke level. (I used to carry one in my flight bag, and I still carry one in my briefcase when I fly.)

What I think happened is the flight crew was overcome by smoke and the plane continued on the heading, probably on George (autopilot), until it ran out of fuel or the fire destroyed the control surfaces and it crashed. You will find it along that route–looking elsewhere is pointless.
...

This theory ignores all of the scant evidence already on the table. It is simply an attempt to shoot down the conspiracy theories, which are beginning to get too close to exposing the contradictions of 9/11, for example reporters questioning why there were no cell phone calls like there supposedly were on 9/11, though they still don't seem to have grasped the reason for the inconsistency. One could almost see this event as a psyop meant to expose the many problems with the official story of 9/11. The question then would be: Who has an interest in exposing 9/11 as a black op? The Chinese, the Russians, some Moslem entity? Hmmm... Just thinking out loud. Move along. Nothing to see here.

[8bitagent]

So is this captivating saga finally over?
http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/20/world/asi ... ?hpt=hp_t1

Malaysia Airlines Flight 370: Australia says possible objects in Indian Ocean

[smiths]

if this turns out to be the plane, which i doubt, it will render all theories ridiculous,

why fly for 6 hours into nowhere? there are no airports down there, no fire on board, no hijacking, no political protest, no strange cargoes, no point in low level flying under radar into nowhere ...

WTF


Live - MH370: two objects relating to missing Malaysia Airways plane may have been found

Australia’s maritime search agency are now focusing all of their resources on finding two objects picked up on satellite images that they believe could be related to the missing Malaysia Airlines plane. Here’s the latest summary of events:

A search is now underway for what Australian authorities believe is a “credible” sighting of two objects that may be from the missing plane. In a press conference on Thursday the general manager of Australia’s maritime safety agency, John Young, said An expert analysis of satellite imagery by Australia’s Geospatial-Intelligence Organisation believes that the images show “a possible indication of debris” that could be from the plane.

An Australian aircraft is now at the scene, and a United States Poseidon vessel is also attending the operation. Two other aircraft, including one from New Zealand, are flying to the location, and a navy vessel is also en-route. Australia has received a number of offers of assistance from other nations to assist in the search operation.

The possible sighting was believed to be “a promising lead,” according to Air Commodore John McGarry, who was also at the press conference on Thursday. He added that defence officials were working towards releasing some of the satellite images to the public.

The announcement comes shortly after Australia’s maritime authority said that the search for the missing Malaysia Airlines flight off the coast in Australia had halved in size and moved closer to Perth. The Australian Maritime Safety Authority general manager John Young provided a video update of the search operation on Wednesday, which showed that the initial search zone off Australia - an area of some 600,000 sq km - had been reduced to roughly 300,000 square kilometres and had been moved to 2300 kilometres off the coast of Perth.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/m ... earch-zone

[JackRiddler]

White House would have been contrary to the style of 9/11; planes hit the most visible and spectacular targets and the Capitol dome rules the Washington skyline. The message would have been that democracy is a luxury and cannot provide security. Congress critters would have been unlikely to die, by the way. But when they next met, possibly weeks later (in a stadium or convention hall under visibly heavy military guard, presumably) they'd be shorn of their history and all the trappings of legitimacy, and ready to vote enabling acts that would have made the 9/14 authorization and the PATRIOT Act look like Tom Paine's republic. If this was a coup, the idea was to suspend constitutional government and establish a unitary executive that could sustain the will to war infinitely and endlessly, no?

Anyway, very interesting how this case has revived every 9/11 speculation but I'm still going with simple on-board hijack or accidental loss of control over the plane ending with an ocean plunge as the overwhelming likelihood. There's nothing inherently implausible about any of that given however many flights there are every year. Whatever happened, no one would be using this to expose 9/11. Anyone who has the goods on 9/11 can just upload it a la Wikileaks, they don't need to send such oblique, mixed and ultimately meaningless messages. And really, too many damn antagonistic governments are involved in the present case to coordinate a coverup. No cui bono established. Sometimes it's not an official story, it's just the truth.