I'm not really certain whether Scotland would be better off independent but I intuit that is the case and am giddy at the prospect. It's also a tragi-comic spectacle of watching those establishment bastards contort themselves in knots trying to argue why self-determination in THIS case is a base evil when in other parts of the world it is the subject of aspirational, kitschy, sentimental blathering by the western elites.
Also, how does one pronounce McCruiskeen in a Scottish accent? I image it going something like MACKRRRRRROOOOEEISSSSCHKEEEN (in all caps of course). But then everyone pretends to know how to do a Scottish accent when they really don't.
Re: Scottish Independence and the UK State
Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:50 am
by MacCruiskeen
RocketMan » Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:08 am wrote:I'm not really certain whether Scotland would be better off independent but I intuit that is the case and am giddy at the prospect. It's also a tragi-comic spectacle of watching those establishment bastards contort themselves in knots trying to argue why self-determination in THIS case is a base evil when in other parts of the world it is the subject of aspirational, kitschy, sentimental blathering by the western elites.
YES!
Scottish independence is "a base evil", as you put it, because it threatens their entrenched power and privilege and wealth -- rather than promising to extend it, as for example in the case of Yugoslavia and Iraq, both of which they broke up for fun and profit.
There is no doubt that an independent Scotland would be far to the left of the current UK. It'll be subject to the same pressures (the same economic blackmail and dirty tricks) as any other nation-state in the age of neoliberalism, so there is little chance of it becoming truly socialist in the near future, as I and many others would wish. But there is absolutely no reason why it shouldn't quickly become a social democracy as prosperous, as egalitarian and as socially progressive as (say) Norway. There is a very strong left tradition in Scotland, especially in and around Glasgow, the biggest city.
RocketMan » Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:08 am wrote:Also, how does one pronounce McCruiskeen in a Scottish accent? I image it going something like MACKRRRRRROOOOEEISSSSCHKEEEN (in all caps of course). But then everyone pretends to know how to do a Scottish accent when they really don't.
"Mah - CROO - skeen", approximately. The name's entirely fictional, anyway. It's not even Scottish! I stole it from Flann O'Brien. It's the name of a character in his greatest and weirdest book. It means "Son of the Little Jug" in Gaelic, for no particular reason I can see, except that Flann liked his bevvy.
While I'm at it: On the old RI board I was "Bismillah". (Elsewhere on the web: "warszawa".) That old name wouldn't "take" on the new board, so I chose this one quickly because I was in a hurry to post and I happened to be re-reading the book at the time. Sometimes I've regretted the name, because it might come across as a bit self-consciously "ethnic". Not my intention. For the record, I'm Scottish born and bred, but "ethnically" part of the Irish diaspora that's heavily represented in Glasgow, as in the other big British west-coast port, Liverpool (hence Lennon & McCartney, to name but two). I'm not a nationalist. To me the Scot Nats always represented everything that was hideous about Scotland, the malt-quaffers in the golf clubs, the sentimental reactionaries, the Tartan Tories, the Burns-abusers and anti-English bores. Sometimes when I'm asked my nationality I'll say "Glaswegian", only half-joking. I feel the usual mixture of strong attachment and exasperation towards my native city, a strong place in itself and a strange one. I live in Central Europe and my daughter has grandparents of four different nationalities. If Scotland gets its independence I will very likely return. It's the hideousness of the United Kingdom that is keeping me here still.
Wherever e-voting is allowed, it's a safe bet that the vote will be stolen whenever necessary. As here.
Princeton study:
Researchers reveal 'extremely serious' vulnerabilities in e-voting machines
Posted September 13, 2006; 12:46 p.m.
by Teresa Riordan
In a paper published on the Web today, a group of Princeton computer scientists said they created demonstration vote-stealing software that can be installed within a minute on a common electronic voting machine. The software can fraudulently change vote counts without being detected. [...]
I get the impression that Stuart Campbell is simply not aware of how very, very easy election-theft is nowadays, for those who have the power to do it. I wish I had sent him the Princeton Study a year ago.
Re: Scottish Independence and the UK State
Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:31 am
by MacCruiskeen
RIC Welcome Support of SYRIZA for Yes Vote
September 16, 2014
The Radical Independence Campaign has welcomed a statement by SYRIZA, the Coalition of the Left in Greece, expressing their support for a Yes vote in Scotland’s independence referendum.
SYRIZA are currently favourites to win the next election in Greece, topping the opinion polls, and narrowly missed out on winning the last general election in June 2012, winning over 25% of the vote.
The Statement from SYRIZA Scotland can be read in full below, key points include:
# That the Scottish Left has played a key role in the independence movement to ensure it has been an internationalist campaign linked to a rejection of decades of neo-liberalism and social injustice.
# That the people of Scotland “have a right to a better future” after decades of Thatcherite “economic and humanitiarian onslaught” from Westminster and that the referendum process has been a democratic process of the highest order.
# That SYRIZA stand with the left of the independence movement “that have taken this opportunity to regroup and take steps towards greater unity” and look forward to standing with us, as we stand with them, to create a peoples Europe.
I gotta go with the 52% NO vote... but only as a betting man. If Canada's experience is any indicator, either the ballot will be fucked with, or the moderates will chicken out when faced with the more 'troubling' choice at the last minute.
Dr. Volin, we miss you, and your views as a Quebecois referendee would be welcome. Of course, it was the Canadian Scots refusing to let go of Montreal that screwed that one up.
Re: Scottish Independence and the UK State
Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:04 pm
by Laodicean
Re: Scottish Independence and the UK State
Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:37 pm
by MacCruiskeen
norton ash » Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:30 am wrote:I gotta go with the 52% NO vote... but only as a betting man. If Canada's experience is any indicator, either the ballot will be fucked with, or the moderates will chicken out when faced with the more 'troubling' choice at the last minute.
I fear you may well be right, norton. I know too little about the Quebec issue to make any worthwhile comment on it, except that there is no language division in the UK. (Gaelic speakers are a tiny and marginal minority.) But the Scottish independence referendum is going to reveal a deep division across class lines. Those who have suffered most under the neoliberal assault will vote massively in favour of independence. So will many other former Labour voters, including many in the professions, who simply cannot stomach any more cruelty & bullshit after four decades of Thatcherism-Blairism. So will many teachers and doctors who are appalled by what's happening to education and the NHS in the UK. So will practically every writer, actor and artist in Scotland whose work I respect.
But I fully expect the petty bourgeoisie, the atomized climbers on the corporate career ladder, to vote in accordance with their perceived class interest, however fashionably "anti-Tory" their publicly-expressed opinions may be. I.e., they'll vote No (discreetly & discretely) for the indefinite maintenance of the neoliberal ice age that is the UK. After all, each or any of them personally might just possibly have something to lose on the deal, or at least something to risk. ("Whatever thinks shabbily, I call bourgeois." - Flaubert.) These bright young things will be joined by many poor and lonely old people who never use the Internet and are easily frightened by what they see & hear on the telly.
"Jobs". Ffs.
The No campaign is not known as Project Fear for no reason, and the propaganda offensive has been massive. How could it not be? The entire UK establishment is behind it, including the BBC and 99% of the press (among them the liberal Guardian, now expanding successfully into the US market).
Dr. Volin, we miss you, and your views as a Quebecois referendee would be welcome. Of course, it was the Canadian Scots refusing to let go of Montreal that screwed that one up.
Seconded. Dr Volin is one of many posters I miss here. Still, we now have 23 threads called "The FBI is a bad thing" to make up for it.
Re: Scottish Independence and the UK State
Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:45 pm
by 82_28
Funny about your name MacCruiskeen. I've always (because of handle) pictured you as some circumspect Scot. Mine, I just figure comes off as a harmless robot that swears a lot. Then again, your avatar is a harmless robot.
However, back to topic. Does anyone find this dustup of "independence" happening in the UK as there is the UKranian dispute in Russia somewhat suspect? I am sure that there is much more to both issues and probably not at all related -- other than the ongoing possibility of a global synch of some kind. But maybe not. Could be by design. You don't run into Scottish people much out here, but if I ran into them I would certainly ask how they felt. Just the tale that one "culture" can do it peacefully (velvet glove) and the other must do so with tanks and armies at the same time in order to "gain" it back. There's something under the hood -- at least I think.
Re: Scottish Independence and the UK State
Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:09 pm
by norton ash
82_28 » Wed Sep 17, 2014 11:45 am wrote:Funny about your name MacCruiskeen. I've always (because of handle) pictured you as some circumspect Scot. Mine, I just figure comes off as a harmless robot that swears a lot. Then again, your avatar is a harmless robot.
However, back to topic. Does anyone find this dustup of "independence" happening in the UK as there is the UKranian dispute in Russia somewhat suspect? I am sure that there is much more to both issues and probably not at all related -- other than the ongoing possibility of a global synch of some kind. But maybe not. Could be by design. You don't run into Scottish people much out here, but if I ran into them I would certainly ask how they felt. Just the tale that one "culture" can do it peacefully (velvet glove) and the other must do so with tanks and armies at the same time in order to "gain" it back. There's something under the hood -- at least I think.
I have extensive experience with both Scots and Ukrainians in Northern Ontario. I would have to say, don't marry Ukrainians because they're gorgeous when they're young and then they get fat. And Scots are just the way they are because they're bred like eagles in the nest. Check their beaks and eyes... aye, they're lookin' at YOU. Anyway, just to contribute my racist .02. Unlimited love to y'all.
Re: Scottish Independence and the UK State
Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:45 pm
by MacCruiskeen
Norton, you are writing like a man in the first hot flush of a love-affair, perhaps with a member of the Colombian ladies' beach-volleyball team. Brace up, man. Think of Canada.
82, I don't know what to say, except that the differences between Scotland's situation and Ukraine's would easily fill a book. Starting with the fact that Scotland has never been a member of the Warsaw Pact or the Russian sphere of influence, and that its independence would constitute more of a potential threat (however tiny) to Anglo-American interests than an asset.
82_28 wrote:There's something under the hood -- at least I think.
Do you mean you suspect that the wave of popular support for Scottish independence is all part of some nefarious "globalist" plan? It makes no sense. Not all change is equal, and not all "destabilization" is the result of outside influence.
Re: Scottish Independence and the UK State
Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:01 pm
by norton ash
Ach, it's all my bad experience. Glasgow relations, an Aberdeen ex-geh-urlfriend, my brother married a Campbell, me gran's a MacDonald, Scots are unavoidable here, they just go ahead and explore and fuck people I guess. The Irish pray on their knees, the Scots prey on their neighbours. Slainte... rooting for YES.
What I mean is the "congruency" of the global happenings having some kind of "meaning". Borders of countries and territories etc. I agree, couldn't be more different. Totally agree. Yet it does bring up the issue of "borders" in both cases. That was my point.
Is England going to bomb the Scot Nats? Pro-Russian rebels in Ukraine mock the break-up of Britain
By Will Stewart and Reuters
10 September 2014
Pro-Russian rebels in Ukraine have brought their own idiosyncratic take on the Scottish independence debate as they back the Yes vote.
Separatists have been mockingly comparing the battle for Ukraine with the referendum in Scotland, asking why England doesn't use military force and poking fun at the Queen and US President Barack Obama.
One supporter of Novorossiya - the breakaway region of eastern Ukraine - posted a picture of the Saltire on Twitter along with the tongue in cheek question in Russian: 'Why doesn't England bomb the Scottish separatists?'
By christ, Niall Ferguson is a complete and utter cnut. From today's Torygraph:
If Mr Cameron gave a thought to his own self-interest, it can only have been a fleeting one. Before he became prime minister, I once suggested to him that a referendum on Scottish independence might be a Machiavellian masterstroke. If it went the wrong way, I suggested, playing devil’s advocate, might not the Tories rule for ever more in the remaining UK?
Aye, I bet you did, ya sleekit smug-arsed toadying British-imperialist Tory fud.
The whole article is contemptible in more ways than I can stomach listing. As a piece of history it is a piece of shit, morally and intellectually bankrupt, yet dripping with class arrogance and condescension.
Instructive, though. Ferguson and his ilk unwittingly show precisely why Scotland needs independence.
Thanks, I'm gonna steal that.
