rigorousintuition.ca

justdrew wrote:In what way would such a 'simulated' universe be "fake" ?

Exactly. A 1:1 map is no longer a map.

Right, the traditional ideas of the universe as divine creation are equally "simulations."

However, I've got a problem with the ease with which a number is assigned. We've all known Matrix scenarios like brain-in-a-vat, all just a program, etc., are a possibility. Just because a top scientist plays with it for the publicity doesn't make it more (or less) plausible, or in any way more legit as a scientific hypothesis. -- Basically? It isn't. Scientific, that is. True, you never know. But scientific? Not remotely. "20 percent" is nonsense.

In reality only the Ultimate is. The rest is a matter of name and form. And as long as man clings to the idea that only what has name and shape exists, the Supreme will appear to you non-existing. When you understand that names and shapes are hollow shells without any content whatsoever, and what is real is nameless and shapeless, pure energy of life and light of consciousness, you will be at peace - immersed in the deep silence of reality. - Nisargadatta.

Or IOW,..

The Tao that can be spoken of is not the Eternal Tao
The name that can be named is not the eternal Name.
The unnamable is the eternally real.
Naming is the origin of all particular things.
Free from desire, you realize the mystery.
Caught in desire, you see only the manifestations. - Lao Tzu

JackRiddler wrote:Right, the traditional ideas of the universe as divine creation are equally "simulations."

However, I've got a problem with the ease with which a number is assigned. We've all known Matrix scenarios like brain-in-a-vat, all just a program, etc., are a possibility. Just because a top scientist plays with it for the publicity doesn't make it more (or less) plausible, or in any way more legit as a scientific hypothesis. -- Basically? It isn't. Scientific, that is. True, you never know. But scientific? Not remotely. "20 percent" is nonsense.

Dr. Bostrom doesn’t pretend to know which of these hypotheses is more likely, but he thinks none of them can be ruled out. “My gut feeling, and it’s nothing more than that,” he says, “is that there’s a 20 percent chance we’re living in a computer simulation.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/14/scien ... .html?_r=0

I don't think he would argue it is science any more than that metaphysics is science.

more reading: http://www.simulation-argument.com/

via: http://www.anomalist.com/

Wombaticus Rex wrote:

justdrew wrote:In what way would such a 'simulated' universe be "fake" ?

Exactly. A 1:1 map is no longer a map.

The Measurement That Would Reveal The Universe As A Computer Simulation
If the cosmos is a numerical simulation, there ought to be clues
in the spectrum of high energy cosmic rays, say theorists

...


The promise is that simulating physics on such a fundamental level is more or less equivalent to simulating the universe itself.

...

http://www.technologyreview.com/view/42 ... iverse-as/

via: http://www.anomalist.com/

Funny. I used to think, and joke, that "God" was the equivalent of some eighth grade kid, and the earth and our universe were just his science class project. And that he was a C student.

I've been thinking about similar things lately, as I'm sure most of us here have been, in regards to AI and the integration of AI with biological I, and of course the old scifi themes of when does AI become conscious and maybe we're all just someone else's AI.

Seems that what used to be strictly scifi is quickly becoming reality.

if this is a simulation (or put another way, a system running on a non-observable substrata)...

let's find some cheat-codes!

justdrew wrote:if this is a simulation (or put another way, a system running on a non-observable substrata)...

let's find some cheat-codes!

Now yer talking.

I want one of those simulated houses in simulated Malibu where i can live out the rest of my simulated life.

The military was essentially looking for cheat codes with Project Stargate. If we live in a simulation hypnosis must be a debugger.

this may be as good a place as any to post this video of a new Conway's Life type cellular automata system...

Is DMT a cheat code? How about dropping into a coma with a neurosurgeon's mind?

once again we're left wandering what's 'up there' the whole subject rehashes everything from western esoteric concepts of transcendence, to nirvana (if you read between the lines), etc

If you want, there's a good series that ultimately (in the 3rd ova) touches on this subject (well, an example of many I guess really) in a somewhat direct manner... It's called: Tenchi muyo Ryo-Ohki

here's a key moment that should be extremely confusing It's anime, but covers a lot of interesting territory.

Nordic wrote:Seems that what used to be strictly scifi is quickly becoming reality.

or possibly more accurately in this context, "what used to be strictly scifi is quickly becoming understood by the simulations.", which is potentially dangerous for the simulations. Could be once enough simulations figure out they are simulations the simulation terminates. But hopefully we're interesting enough to warrant further observation. Or perhaps when enough simulations realize they are simulations we graduate to simulator (god) status. Bits of code like Cheney are deleted.

justdrew wrote:if this is a simulation (or put another way, a system running on a non-observable substrata)...

let's find some cheat-codes!

Hmmmm... depends on what you think of the simulators. If it/they think of us as disposable, then maybe that's not such a good idea. Or alternatively, maybe that is precisely what we are expected to do. Lucid reality rather than lucid dreaming. Maybe like Pinocchio we can become really real.

If its a sim, my guess would be that it would be free-running with no tinkering. It would have been created by a species that face similarly extraordinarily complex problems to that which we are facing today. It may even be us. I would envisage a single sim, or multiple (depending on the need to draw results quickly), each propogating it's own virtual universes once the sim itself it had evolved the technological ability to do so. All ruunning to see if there is way out of the predicament. Set them going and put your feet up while it creates infinite outcomes.

The top percentile that run to the farthest point (sentience being retained for the longest period) would then be analysed and potential paths to solution extracted.