Congress would be authorized to raise and support a national Army and Navy, and also to organize, arm, discipline, and provide for the calling forth of “the Militia.” The President, at the same time, was empowered as the “Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States.” But, with respect to the militia, a significant reservation was made to the States: Although Congress would have the power to call forth, organize, arm, and discipline the militia, as well as to govern “such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States,” the States respectively would retain the right to appoint the officers and to train the militia in accordance with the discipline prescribed by Congress. But the original Constitution’s retention of the militia and its creation of divided authority over that body did not prove sufficient to allay fears about the dangers posed by a standing army. For it was perceived by some that Article I contained a significant gap: While it empowered Congress to organize, arm, and discipline the militia, it did not prevent Congress from providing for the militia’s disarmament. As George Mason argued during the debates in Virginia on the ratification of the original Constitution: “The militia may be here destroyed by that method which has been practiced in other parts of the world before; that is, by rendering them useless—by disarming them. Under various pretences, Congress may neglect to provide for arming and disciplining the militia; and the state governments cannot do it, for Congress has the exclusive right to arm them.” - Justice Stevens’ dissent in “District of Columbia v. Heller"
“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”
“The Congress shall have power to provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions.”
“The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States , when called into the actual Service of the United States”
.
Re: A well regulated militia
Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:41 pm
by General Patton
The only reason the US has the oldest living constitution in the world is because elites can interpret it to mean whatever they want. Judicial activism is the norm now, regardless of which side controls it.
Re: A well regulated militia
Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:57 pm
by backtoiam
The decades-long convergence of increasingly militant rural conservatives and increasingly militarized law enforcement is pretty inexorable. There's no way to opt out of ubiquitous social/mass media culture and that's make primates of all persuasions itchy, itchy as hell.
"militant rural conservative" that made me laugh. Thanx for the smile. When people are not forced into intentional culture jamming things take care of themselves really quick. I know for a fact.
Interesting confluence...I spent most of my life living all over the country. Mostly in "militant rural conservative" America. For 13 years I lived fairly close to where Rosa Parks wasn't allowed to sit on the bus, city of 1.5 million biggest city I ever lived in.
My entire life growing up was like this. No matter what color people were, or anything else, when we got out of the vehicle to head to the door of a convenience store whoever got their hand on the door handle first opened the door for the person that got to the door a couple of seconds behind. Black man, white man, white woman, black woman, etc...
Complete courtesy to all involved. We didn't know what their sexual preference was and we damn sure didn't give a shit.
If you are broke down on the side of the road, no matter what color you are, gay, lesbian, whatever, consider yourself lucky. Somebody of the opposite color or political persuasion will probably pick you up, take you to their house, feed you, let you call somebody, or make DAMN SURE you are safe until you get help.
Of course you can run into the random asshole, but unlikely in the rural "conservative" world. Most of them don't even know what means nor do they care. They think it means what CNN says for five seconds and go about their lives.
The rest is meme driven bullshit.
Re: A well regulated militia
Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 10:23 pm
by Iamwhomiam
The decades-long convergence of increasingly militant rural conservatives and increasingly militarized law enforcement is pretty inexorable. There's no way to opt out of ubiquitous social/mass media culture and that's make primates of all persuasions itchy, itchy as hell.
Certainly has. That plus lost jobs, homes, savings help grow their insecurities. Particularly grating is knowing the bankers were made whole while common folk like them lost everything. And FEMA buying all that ammunition didn't do much to sooth their nerves.
While there is no question that there are some who would like to revoke the 2nd A, they are the extreme minority of those seeking meaningful change in gun regulations.
But most seeking to replace our liberal gun laws with more conservative laws feel as I do, that there should be one firearm license that should be recognized nationally, and that no one is looking to confiscate anyone's weapons.
We just want to be able to trace a gun from the manufacturer through its various owners and assure all who come to possess it do so legally.
Re: A well regulated militia
Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 10:46 pm
by Iamwhomiam
Of course you can run into the random asshole, but unlikely in the rural conservative world.
So, you haven't lived in NY? Cause my proximity is crawlin' with 'em. Blue collar ignoramuses who are fed up with the government taxing them for schools, libraries and fire departments, and the most hated tax of all, Welfare!
Just don't ask them where their tax dollar goes or what percentage goes to pay for essential services, like defense. They won't know and besides, we're under attack from terrorists, so it's good to have a strong defense. Of course they cannot associate their tax dollars with our military's surveillance programs that's paid for the stripping of their privacy they bemoan and decry as being caused by Obama, Liberals, and "The Government."
My LL wholeheartedly believe Obama is a Muslim Communist and that Donald Trump is God's gift to Mankind. (sorry gals!) All are well stocked with multiple weaponry and so much ammunition it will go bad before it's used. They are on edge and they are ready to overthrow the government, or at least try. I cannot imagine what will happen if perchance Bernie Sanders, a Jew, becomes elected president.
And you're South of the Mason-Dixon Line? You know, home of the Klan and other assorted Skin-headed Nazis?
The AR-15 was not entirely printed, only the "lower receiver", which is apparently the most important part of a gun. Here is a more recent article about printing up an AR-15:
Most are plastic but I did read somewhere about a fully printed metal gun. It used a higher-end 3d printer which the designers suggested would keep the gun out of the hands of regular people but 3d printers are going to be like computers. Soon enough we will all have one which makes the current printers look like toys.
Re: A well regulated militia
Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 1:36 am
by Iamwhomiam
Thank you, jingo.
Wilson’s nonprofit organization, Defense Distributed, released a video this week showing a gun firing off over 600 rounds—illustrating what is likely to be the first wave of semi-automatic and automatic weapons produced by the additive manufacturing process.
Last year, his group famously demonstrated that it could use a 3D-printed “lower” for an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle—but the gun failed after six rounds. Now, after some re-tooling, Defense Distributed has shown that it has fixed the design flaws and a gun using its lower can seemingly fire for quite a while. (The AR-15 is the civilian version of the military M16 rifle.)
What I've set in bold type is the last I had heard about the 3D printed lower receiver.
“This is the first publicly printed AR lower demonstrated to withstand a large volume of .223 without structural degradation or failure,” Wilson wrote on Wednesday. “The actual count was 660+ on day 1 with the SLA lower. The test ended when we ran out of ammunition, but this lower could easily withstand 1,000 rounds.”
Already, he says, over 10,000 people have downloaded the lower CAD file, and more have downloaded it through BitTorrent.
Discounting the curious teenagers without the toys of their extremely wealthy peers and also adults of similar situation, I suppose those downloading the blueprints are all very responsible legal gun owners.
Re: A well regulated militia
Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 3:40 am
by backtoiam
So, you haven't lived in NY? Cause my proximity is crawlin' with 'em. Blue collar ignoramuses who are fed up with the government taxing them for schools, libraries and fire departments, and the most hated tax of all, Welfare!
I You got me. I don't want to tell this story, but in the interest of fairness, I'm gonna let it rip.
I had to go the New York Stock Exchange, every now and then, down into depths of hell, into the traders pit, to talk to some people. Everything was cool there because I had my badge, they knew they should never fuck with me, so it was all good. I wanted to piss on Bull before I left but I knew that would require a lot of extra paperwork so I let that slide. Even though one night, nevermind...
Anyway, the very fine qualities of what feminism "used to be" reared its ugly head on me. I had a plane to catch. I was hungry. I had about three hours to kill and I walked around and looked at a bunch of cool shit.
Here come the "opening the door shit" I previously spoke of. I opened a door for a lady at a sandwich shop. She was hot. Thin. Brunette. High heels. Totally trimmed out and smoking. She drove me into the pavement for opening the door for her.
She said, and I quote, "I'm not a god damned invalid, I can open my own door."
I went and got some cheese crackers down the street instead.
Re: A well regulated militia
Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:49 pm
by General Patton
http://crooksandliars.com/2014/06/so-what-point-do-we-actually-stand-gun Do we have the ATF and BLM agents roll up in armored tanks? Do we use drone strikes? I can see the administration's reluctance to have that confrontation -- after all, it's not as if gun control advocates were flooding the White House switchboard, screaming to 'take them out!' And then we do have the militia types all over the country, just waiting for an excuse to start their own local uprising. These assholes want a civil war so bad, they can taste it.
Some days, I wonder: Should we let them, and just get it over with? You know, settle the burning question about whose is bigger.
This is why we need to ban guns ASAP and bring down the full force of Federal law enforcement on these degenerate gun nuts. With as much violence as we've had you can't call yourself a Liberal unless you're willing to put your money where your mouth is and stop these shootings by taking the guns away.
http://www.salon.com/2014/06/23/gun_nuts_are_terrorizing_america_the_watershed_moment_everyone_missed/ Here is a truth so fundamental that it should be self-evident: When legitimately constituted state authority stands down in the face of armed threats, the very foundation of the republic is in danger. And yet that is exactly what happened at Cliven Bundy’s Nevada ranch this spring: An alleged criminal defeated the cops, because the forces of lawlessness came at them with guns — then Bureau of Land Management officials further surrendered by removing the government markings from their vehicles to prevent violence against them
This is very dangerous, the only thing that keeps us from absolute chaos and disorder is the police and various alphabet soup agencies. We can't allow ordinary people to challenge their authority. We need to go into their houses and TAKE their guns.
Preferably with a camera crew following the SWAT teams broadcasting their location.
http://crooksandliars.com/2014/06/so-what-point-do-we-actually-stand-gun Do we have the ATF and BLM agents roll up in armored tanks? Do we use drone strikes? I can see the administration's reluctance to have that confrontation -- after all, it's not as if gun control advocates were flooding the White House switchboard, screaming to 'take them out!' And then we do have the militia types all over the country, just waiting for an excuse to start their own local uprising. These assholes want a civil war so bad, they can taste it.
Some days, I wonder: Should we let them, and just get it over with? You know, settle the burning question about whose is bigger.
This is why we need to ban guns ASAP and bring down the full force of Federal law enforcement on these degenerate gun nuts. With as much violence as we've had you can't call yourself a Liberal unless you're willing to put your money where your mouth is and stop these shootings by taking the guns away.
http://www.salon.com/2014/06/23/gun_nuts_are_terrorizing_america_the_watershed_moment_everyone_missed/ Here is a truth so fundamental that it should be self-evident: When legitimately constituted state authority stands down in the face of armed threats, the very foundation of the republic is in danger. And yet that is exactly what happened at Cliven Bundy’s Nevada ranch this spring: An alleged criminal defeated the cops, because the forces of lawlessness came at them with guns — then Bureau of Land Management officials further surrendered by removing the government markings from their vehicles to prevent violence against them
This is very dangerous, the only thing that keeps us from absolute chaos and disorder is the police and various alphabet soup agencies. We can't allow ordinary people to challenge their authority. We need to go into their houses and TAKE their guns.
Preferably with a camera crew following the SWAT teams broadcasting their location.
yeah, we're really at the point where we either defend or surrender. I actually worry about one thing, at what point can rawanda happen here? Lone wolves can get together in a hurry sometimes. It's probably not entirely realistic to expect the State as such to functionally Protect "my/our people" vs a domestic right wing uprising. "we" need to start flooding into the ranks of police and military and establish trusted units.
but ya know, it's all a nightmare scenario really, could just be a little too paranoid I hope.
Re: A well regulated militia
Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 10:17 pm
by justdrew
what about some sort of peace summit for "our" various Cultural Tribes At Psudo-Civil War? It could help all sides get past the "self-definition via who-they-oppose" mentality we're all somewhat trapped in.
I think there are areas "we" could most-all agree on, if "we" could bypass the media-mediated political circus and come up with a national consensus platform.
Obviously, a job for a good web site! Register, elect some reps, have a summit. vote. I don't see why millions wouldn't sign up. design of the system is crucial of course, it has to work right to enable people to weight the options and really inspect their own views. Could be done though.
A "Social Consensus System"
SCS, it's got an acronym now, so it's already real
we should write up the wiki page for it as a Requirements Document to aid the design process.
Re: A well regulated militia
Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 10:40 pm
by Grizzly
TITLE: Paprika (ID: a4191) YEAR: 2006 LANGUAGE: Japanese (Original) & English (Dub) SUBTITLES: English & Spanish
SOURCE: Blu-ray Disc VIDEO CODEC: H.264 AUDIO TRACK 1: Japanese AAC-LC 5.1 (6 Channels) AUDIO TRACK 2: English AAC-LC 5.1 (6 Channels) CONTAINER: MP4 RESOLUTION: 1920 x 1040 ( 1.85 : 1 ) RUN-TIME: 01:30:33
SYNOPSIS: When a machine that allows therapists to enter their patient's dreams is stolen -- all hell breaks loose. Only a young female therapist can stop it: Paprika.
http://crooksandliars.com/2014/06/so-what-point-do-we-actually-stand-gun Do we have the ATF and BLM agents roll up in armored tanks? Do we use drone strikes? I can see the administration's reluctance to have that confrontation -- after all, it's not as if gun control advocates were flooding the White House switchboard, screaming to 'take them out!' And then we do have the militia types all over the country, just waiting for an excuse to start their own local uprising. These assholes want a civil war so bad, they can taste it.
Some days, I wonder: Should we let them, and just get it over with? You know, settle the burning question about whose is bigger.
This is why we need to ban guns ASAP and bring down the full force of Federal law enforcement on these degenerate gun nuts. With as much violence as we've had you can't call yourself a Liberal unless you're willing to put your money where your mouth is and stop these shootings by taking the guns away.
http://www.salon.com/2014/06/23/gun_nuts_are_terrorizing_america_the_watershed_moment_everyone_missed/ Here is a truth so fundamental that it should be self-evident: When legitimately constituted state authority stands down in the face of armed threats, the very foundation of the republic is in danger. And yet that is exactly what happened at Cliven Bundy’s Nevada ranch this spring: An alleged criminal defeated the cops, because the forces of lawlessness came at them with guns — then Bureau of Land Management officials further surrendered by removing the government markings from their vehicles to prevent violence against them
This is very dangerous, the only thing that keeps us from absolute chaos and disorder is the police and various alphabet soup agencies. We can't allow ordinary people to challenge their authority. We need to go into their houses and TAKE their guns.
Preferably with a camera crew following the SWAT teams broadcasting their location.
You are a tricky one, General Patton! I hafta wonder who you're sharing your conversation with.
No one is coming to collect anyone's gun or guns! Never gonna happen. A statistical impossibility, anyway.
Funny thing is that most of those complaining about eroding Gun Rights and impediments to and infringements of their second amendment rights already own firearms legally.
What is needed is for all states to play by the same rules and regulations.
Firearm licenses must be made mandatory for legal firearm possession anywhere in the USA and would be valid everywhere. Mandatory prior to license issuance, certifiable training assures competency for general firearm uses and mandatory annual training thereafter.
An FBI background check for all firearms sales and transfers.
Although extremely emotive, a firearms registry should be maintained - Not for collection of firearms by the government - but to curtail the illicit trade of firearms on the black market.
I've also called for out-of-state travelers who possess firearms to be required to report to the policing authority closest to their point of entry what weapons they have brought into their state.
WE protect of croplands by having security Dept. of Agriculture checkpoints at state borders to assure no non-native crop-damaging insects are transported across states' borders - shouldn't we do the same with firearms, to at least know who's bringing what deadly weapons to where?
DO we really care more about our breakfast cereal than we do our children? more than our loved ones?
General, you are acting quite trollish. (Yes. I said it, the "T" word.)
You don't believe a damned thing you've written.
Re: A well regulated militia
Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2015 12:44 am
by 82_28
Here come the "opening the door shit" I previously spoke of. I opened a door for a lady at a sandwich shop. She was hot. Thin. Brunette. High heels. Totally trimmed out and smoking. She drove me into the pavement for opening the door for her.
She said, and I quote, "I'm not a god damned invalid, I can open my own door."
Who doesn't hold the door open for everyone? It's common sense and common courtesy. Gah. If you're going out the person coming in holds the door and if you're going in you hold the door for those going out.
Re: A well regulated militia
Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2015 1:28 am
by General Patton
What is needed is for all states to play by the same rules and regulations.
Is this the part where Texas, Wyoming and Washington DC make amends and agree not to burn one anothers Capitol's to the ground?
Although extremely emotive, a firearms registry should be maintained - Not for collection of firearms by the government - but to curtail the illicit trade of firearms on the black market.
Find me a conservative that votes that doesn't believe in the slippery slope. The larger problem here is that trust in Congress and various Federal institutions is hovering around all-time lows. And not without good reason...
WE protect of croplands by having security Dept. of Agriculture checkpoints at state borders to assure no non-native crop-damaging insects are transported across states' borders - shouldn't we do the same with firearms, to at least know who's bringing what deadly weapons to where?
DO we really care more about our breakfast cereal than we do our children? more than our loved ones
There you go trusting Federal agencies to perform their jobs again. I will never trust a Federal agency to perform any job in any capacity without an external watchdog. Internal checks to power are always enfeebled by politics, somehow the guy who does oversight always ends up answering to the man at the top. Even then it's pretty damn sketchy.
You don't believe a damned thing you've written.
You don't think I want a camera crew streaming live footage of every SWAT team in the US?
