rigorousintuition.ca

If he's so into world peace, why does he parrot all the standard neocon bullshit about "Russian aggression" and having to "contain" her, and say that Hugo Chavez was a "dead communist dictator?"

You know, I don't know, Nordic. I still like the guy though. He's the best we have with any semblance of a chance. I don't even know what that even means. As far as Russia and "containing her" it sure seems as though he is interested in containing the US too. Who really is to know?

He's definitely not a peace candidate, he's a let-the-people-benefit-a-bit-more-from-our-imperialism candidate.

I've been watching Cindy Sheehan's FB feed with interest, especially her crew's reaction to the birdie landing, which they lampooned. Critics on the left of Sanders are correct about his being beholden to the imperialist war machine, but they're the ones selling hopey-changey mirages when it comes to strategy. There's no left revolution silently waiting on the sidelines to bloom into overwhelming numbers forming a viable third party or other anti-imperialist block, as Hedges dreams about. The current system is too controlled, and the populous too brainwashed to support in large enough numbers any organizational effort without existing institutional backing, ironic as that is. Bernie's campaign is beginning to break apart some of those layers of control, laying the groundwork to build broader, and more left leaning movements.

Project Willow » Sun Mar 27, 2016 3:11 pm wrote:He's definitely not a peace candidate, he's a let-the-people-benefit-a-bit-more-from-our-imperialism candidate.

I've been watching Cindy Sheehan's FB feed with interest, especially her crew's reaction to the birdie landing, which they lampooned. Critics on the left of Sanders are correct about his being beholden to the imperialist war machine, but they're the ones selling hopey-changey mirages when it comes to strategy. There's no left revolution silently waiting on the sidelines to bloom into overwhelming numbers forming a viable third party or other anti-imperialist block, as Hedges dreams about. The current system is too controlled, and the populous too brainwashed to support in large enough numbers any organizational effort without existing institutional backing, ironic as that is. Bernie's campaign is beginning to break apart some of those layers of control, laying the groundwork to build broader, and more left leaning movements.

I'm sure you're right. At the same time I am forced to abstain from anyone promoting business-as-usual on the foreign war-making (I was gonna say "foreign policy" but that's not an accurate term) front.

I won't have anything to do with it except for the taxes they forcibly take from my paychecks. And if I could change citizenship I would.

It's incredible how many really smart people I read on the left don't want to see that. How is this not a move in the right direction when you're demonstrating a 30% base of support in the country for Sanders, and it's obviously about the politics and not the man? (Although he definitely helps - wow, does it help to have someone so non-phony doing it; his supposed marketing weaknesses like age and looks and gruffness are all strengths.)

For once lesser evil would not mean "lesser in moving things in a more evil direction." He's saying break up Wall Street, the oil and gas companies and the media; set price limits on the pharmaceuticals and get the FIRE sector out of health care; and, at least, no more "regime change" wars; and people are upset because he has not yet added Pentagon/MIC/NSS to his explicit enemies' list? I guess they must hate him in a very personal way, because that's the kind of thing in this country that gets people shot.

Although, actually, I think this would be the right move for his campaign at this point - to explicitly address the real sinkhole of taxpayer money, to say it's time to END a whole bunch of wars. And maybe that's where it's heading. The quick response to the bird was a kind of sign in itself. Who else would have said the bird wanted world peace?!

But also this, I think this is worth a repost -- When was the last time you saw something like this from someone within shooting distance of the white house?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QEy0mxfFaM

Here's a cartoon I saw today, though I can't find a graphic that's postable here:

"This is it, Charlie Brown, if you vote one more time there will be real change!" Lucy said as she held the football down for a kick.

My reply:

You realize it would work equally well with, "if you vote third party" and "if you demonstratively announce you are not voting." But also with "if you demonstrate," "if you petition," "if you riot," "if you hold a panel and write an article," "if you make a fiery speech," and sadly (at least in the last couple of decades), "if you strike." None of these have been showing direct results in the U.S., at least not 95% of the time or more. And yet I say real [positive] change has come in some ways and is coming in bigger ones. So let's not be one-dimensional in criticizing any of the ways that honest people try to get closer to it.

Nordic » 27 Mar 2016 12:54 wrote:
I'm sure you're right. At the same time I am forced to abstain from anyone promoting business-as-usual on the foreign war-making (I was gonna say "foreign policy" but that's not an accurate term) front.

I won't have anything to do with it except for the taxes they forcibly take from my paychecks. And if I could change citizenship I would.

I respect your position and would not attempt to argue.

At the same time I have to say...

JackRiddler wrote:

You realize it would work equally well with, "if you vote third party" and "if you demonstratively announce you are not voting." But also with "if you demonstrate," "if you petition," "if you riot," "if you hold a panel and write an article," "if you make a fiery speech," and sadly (at least in the last couple of decades), "if you strike." None of these have been showing direct results in the U.S., at least not 95% of the time or more. And yet I say real [positive] change has come in some ways and is coming in bigger ones. So let's not be one-dimensional in criticizing any of the ways that honest people try to get closer to it.

Amen to that!

Listen, if Sanders gets the nomination I might conceivably vote for him, although I would feel comfortable giving a vote to the GP as well seeing as how California would 99.99% likely go to Sanders anyway.

I will never in a zillion years vote for Hillary.

Nordic » 27 Mar 2016 12:54 wrote:

I'm sure you're right. At the same time I am forced to abstain from anyone promoting business-as-usual on the foreign war-making (I was gonna say "foreign policy" but that's not an accurate term) front.

I won't have anything to do with it except for the taxes they forcibly take from my paychecks. And if I could change citizenship I would.

Amen and a woman to that... except, fuck that, last part, I’m American I'll prolly die American. And I fully and explicitly dissent against this war slaughter for money system.



Tangentially related?

Bite, spit or chew: https://voat.co/v/whatever/comments/947485

Nordic » Sun Mar 27, 2016 5:07 pm wrote:Listen, if Sanders gets the nomination I might conceivably vote for him, although I would feel comfortable giving a vote to the GP as well seeing as how California would 99.99% likely go to Sanders anyway.

I will never in a zillion years vote for Hillary.

I hadn't really considered how to vote if he gets the nomination, I've just been supporting Stein all the way through. I didn't want to vote for a democratic candidate in a presidential election ever again.

I won't have anything to do with it except for the taxes they forcibly take from my paychecks. And if I could change citizenship I would.

funny you should mention that.

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/97025.pdf

check out questions six and seven. and read your bc carefully

27,000 people

Bernie Sanders ‏@BernieSanders 38m38 minutes ago
Thank you to the more than 27,000 New Yorkers who came out tonight to join our political revolution. Unbelievable.

Simone Zimmerman as his campaign director for Jewish outreach is the stupidest political decision a presidential candidate has made in a long time. Retarded. He has no intention of winning.

FourthBase » Thu Apr 14, 2016 7:40 am wrote:Simone Zimmerman as his campaign director for Jewish outreach is the stupidest political decision a presidential candidate has made in a long time. Retarded. He has no intention of winning.

Why are you so preoccupied with questions of race and Semitic ethnicities?

You always couch it in some equivocating ponderings on power and deception that usually ends up amounting to some variaton of "on one hand but then on the other" and "iz very important to question everthing".

But it always boils down to race and ethnicity with you.

seemslikeadream » Wed Apr 13, 2016 6:39 pm wrote:27,000 people

Bernie Sanders ‏@BernieSanders 38m38 minutes ago
Thank you to the more than 27,000 New Yorkers who came out tonight to join our political revolution. Unbelievable.

~~~

^^^
FULL EVENT: Bernie Sanders,Tim Robbins,Rosario Dawson Rally in Washington Square Park (4-13-16)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhMoEWgKyW4


~~~

Bernie Sanders AMAZING Speech at Washington Square Park New York Rally (4-13-16)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SJGK1j-x2Q