Again I usually roll my eyes at Alex Jones these days, especially with his birther crap...
but I agree with what he said today "This bin Laden thing is the beginning of something big...I think they're getting ready to blow a city with nukes"
JackRiddler wrote:
This I actually felt was necessary prior to September 11th, which is why I was honestly expecting such a thing -- a "Reichstag Fire" event -- on the basis of the Bush mob seizing power in a fraudulent election and the revival of the Central Asian great game. This is not necessary today. In case you haven't noticed, US people barely noticed that a new front was opened in Libya, and they don't even know Yemen exists. What's to stop escalations or new campaigns, other than overstretch or military defeat? However, as those are factors, the crew in the cockpit right now is looking to maintain the ongoing wars, not to open new fronts. We'll see about Pakistan. I'm expecting status quo -- already murderous -- with lots of kabuki diplomatic conflicts.
Jack, doesn't this argument, that America has acute ADD distraction and goldfish memory give credence all the more that only a "big one" will be able to really galvanize support? I literally overnight have seen so many "Obama is a muslim commie blah blah" people on tv and radio change their tune on Obama. After a major nuke attack, he'd be a God. Sure, some would say he failed to protect us, but he'd be Lord Obama. Of course the PTB could also pull the neo Nazi lone wolf card to drum up race wars, hence the baiting the racist right wingers in America("the only brown thing at this protest is my sign")
Also, we're debating this as if the US is acting in its own interests...seems to me the game was to destroy America. Use it like a tampon, and flush it down the toilet. How much has been spent in ten years, trillions? America's name is in the crapper, the financial situation. I suspect much deeper interests are influencing the scenes, and ultimately 9/11 was to get the US sucked into endless protracted wars to spread America thin and bleed us financially. Now some might attribute that to bin Laden's angle, but he's been groomed from birth to be where he is...as has Obama. Kabuki indeed.
JackRiddler wrote:
They never cared a crap about international support for that. Never. Yeltsin's first war on Chechnya had failed because of Russians hating it and hating him. Do you remember that? Do you even know about the mid 1990s Chechnya war? The mothers' protests, as they were called, did that in, forced a withdrawal. The point in 1999 was to mobilize Russians in support of a second Chechnya war -- also to deify the FSB's wonderman Putin as the solution for a Russia seemingly in terminal crisis. It worked.
I misspoke, I meant to type internal support. And I definitely remember the early 90's through mid 90's former Soviet conflicts. Georgia, Azerbaijan, Chechnya. I spent awhile researching Bosnia and the Balkan conflicts of 92-02. I've long believed Bosnia and Chechnya is how the ptb the hijackers and created the spine of sept 11th. But I agree 100% with your take on Chechnya. They even have killed any journalist and whistleblower exposing this stuff. Wikileaks said last year FSB is in bed with mafia running cities.
JackRiddler wrote:
You're not really going to want to debate *what* we saw under Bush in the way of Homeland insanity and repressions, as opposed to what we've seen under Obama? The roundups right after September 11th, all the fake warnings and color-coded panics, renditions, torture, children at Gitmo? Some things have been phased out, but there is a remarkable continuity in the last two years and a continuing salami tactic of expanding the surveillance and control systems, and it's absurd to suggest there's a radical new quality to it that's especially Obama's. (And who mentioned shoes? They've been making me take off my goddamn shoes for almost 10 years now.)
True, but now we could get ready to see this treatment to the public at large. If we see a total collapse of the economy, all bets are off as well. And what happened to all the popular leftist protests against Bush during all the torture, abu gharib, war, etc stuff?
JackRiddler wrote:
Huh? Who forced the US to scale back on Libya? Did you see any protests? Fact is, the US has been ambivalent about Libya from the beginning. That's not an excuse for its participation. UK, France and Italy led the charge politically and now militarily.
Well it seems a lot of the liberal media and self ascribed liberals supported this. "humanitarian wars" are always neo liberal positions.
JackRiddler wrote:
Do you think a "Big One" solves the problem that the US military is overstretched and already draining too much of what's left of the Treasury? They're already spending a trillion dollars a year and the corporations are plundering too much of it to actually field a force that can do much more than what is already in play.
The whole point is to overstretch! To drain, to bleed. To crash the empire and bring about total chaos.
JackRiddler wrote:
You always say this and it's bullshit. A bunch of Obama cheerleaders at the White House yesterday is not "the left." I don't know what you define as "the left" but I see many signs of growing popular mobilization against the class war, and opposition to the military budgets will go with that as it grows. Because that part is unavoidable. War eats any part of this nation's surplus wealth that the super-rich don't rake in as rentier income and plunder.
Maybe I don't live in Austin, Portland, etc...but I just don't see this mass true leftist awakening. Jack, it's certainly not being shown in any of the liberal blog news sites. Huffpo, Dailykoss, Crooksandliars, Firedoglake, Politico, etc is all raw raw go Obama, we got that thar Ay-rab...lock stock with Fox, MSNBC, CNN, etc.
I never saw one damn protest against Afghanistan, unlike the controlled ptb created "anti Iraq" swell. "Iraq war=good/Afghanistan war=justified/Bin Laden did 9/11". Thats been, and has always been the liberal meme. Now and then I run across college kids and others who aren't too sure about Obama anymore, but the message of the media and popular thought is "anti Obama=racist birther tea partier"
Has there been any big anti war demos lately? Any liberal sites questioning this bin Laden stuff? Even conspiracy truther friendly Rawstory was making fun of people who question the bin laden dead story.
everytime I bring up anything regarding oil, finances, war, etc I always hear leftists say "yeah yeah, conspiracy theories". This is why I like Norman Finklestein a lot more than Chomsky...John Pilger a lot more than Naomi Klein, etc
JackRiddler wrote:
You will see continued bombings and attempts to continue the current force commitments in Afpak and to stay in Iraq. That's horrible for the bombed and the occupied. You will not see new ground force commitments. At least, I don't believe that's the plan, because I don't see the logic or the reasons for it you say you do.
And in this case, I certainly hope I'm right!
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True. And they're going back and forth with Pakistan. They double crossed us, no theyre our allies in the war on terruh...no wait, they financed al qaeda and taliban...
Now its "Pakistani ISI was behind Mumbai 2008 massacre". All I know is it seems like war isnt going to ebb, but graduate to the new level beyond these piddly little small time conflicts.
