rigorousintuition.ca

Well yes sometimes a cigar is only a cigar. I think that goes without saying. Which is why it's kind of annoying to have someone not just say it but argue it. When they have zero evidence except the "authorities" word.

Nothing personal. I have no reason to dislike you. I'm just being honest about the dynamics here.

We're here to question official stories and find holes in them, not to repeat them. If I wanted to argue with people who believed the authorities I could just stay in Facebook all daylong.

IMO.

I keep seeing this word, evidence, show up again and again. I know I've used it multiple times. I think we need to be honest, here: there is no evidence. None.

Rather than evidence, we have acceptance.

A person here either accepts certain accounts given by authorities or the media, or they chose to not accept those accounts. It's not a binary decision. A poster like myself can accept certain accounts, but that does not mean that he or she is accepting of everything; just as a person can be suspicious of some accounts, but not all.

Now, just to be clear, I have not spent a single minuted arguing for the benefit of Chief Brown, CNN, or any other authority figure. I argue caution and skepticism of what so many here might use as evidence to create an alternative viewpoint. It's not the viewpoint I care about, it's the unrigorous acceptance of non-evidence as evidence.

Nordic, with all respect, if being skeptical of alternative viewpoints is akin to Facebook, then wouldn't an echo-chamber of only alternative viewpoints look a lot like Above Top Secret?

Maybe we need a middle ground. I thought that's what this place was.

I'm going to put three of my own quotes right here, from where I got involved in the the thread. I think my words show that I'm not trying to shut down speculation.

Novem5er » Sat Jul 09, 2016 12:32 pm wrote:We can't take too much stock in pictures of people looking or pointing upwards. It's possible there were rooftop shooters, but it's also possible that people were confused and scared and photos caught them looking up. Gunfire would have echoed loudly, bouncing off the buildings. This could not only create the impression that there were more shooters than were really there, but also might have created the impression that shots were coming from above. Any reasonable person would have looked up, just to be sure, anyway.

Novem5er » Sat Jul 09, 2016 4:45 pm wrote:There may have been more than one shooter. I just don't think the video with the sparks shows that. I could see that it looks like rounds are hitting the railing, but to me the line up exactly with the shooter on the ground and his movements. More than likely the video phone is picking up the bright light of the sparks and is amplifying them, making them look larger and closer than they were in life.

Also, the photos of people looking or pointing up have to be taken with a grain of salt. There were people on balconies and in windows to watch the protest or because it's simply a busy place. The sound of gunfire is echoing between the buildings and people are confused. I'm not saying there wasn't another shooter, I'm just saying that all this internet evidence is pretty weak, as it usually is

Novem5er » Sun Jul 10, 2016 10:33 am wrote:If the above "black sheep" narrative is true, it's another example of a so called beta-male, unsuccessful with women, lacking in peers, and angry at the world for being so miserable.

To be honest, I find this narrative easier to believe than secret agent, high level cover-up conspiracies designed to panic the public and guide public policy. The world is filled with angry young men and throw in a mix of social media and firearms and there's no reason to stage anything IMO.

That last sentence that I bolded is what started some of my back-and-forth with other posters. Other posters responded to me, asking why I found it so hard to believe in various other theories, be they large or small conspiracies. I then argued why I felt most of these conspiracies are pretty weak. I never argued that the official story was true or particularly strong.

I'd like to point out that I also spent a fair amount of time creating my own video analysis to look at bullet trajectories and to display the weird "man in black clothes" walking casually past a murdered cop while the murderer stands but feet away. I also looked into one of the slain cop's tattoos, trying to decide if it was an iron cross or a fireman's shield. I mean, I'm not just in here shitting on everyone and transcribing CNN.

I didn't mean to say you were. You did, however, challenge us to provide evidence to disprove the non-evidentiary basis of the authorities' stories, which seemed to suggest you took gave their stories, with no evidence, more benefit of the doubt than anyone's legitimate distrust.

Which sounded a lot of typical FB posts of people who enjoy believing the authorities' stories "where's your proof??!!"

Thanks for pointing out your lack of insisting that you were right. I appreciate that.

Your use of strawman arguments to support your case - that if the authorities are lying that it's some massive far-reaching conspiracy using super-agents and total complicity in the part of the entire police force and the "press", though, is reminiscent of FB type arguing.

Really all they needed was one damaged and controlled gunman with one or 2 other secret real shooters (guys who didn't flunk out of marksmanship training) to pull it off. Then at the right time the Feds enter the fray, pull rank on the locals and end of story. "Homeland Security".

Have they finally settled on the part of the story that describes what kind of gun he used? SKS or AR? Or do we need to wait for the autopsy reports to see what killed the cops first, and then "figure it out"?

"Not everything is a conspiracy" is incredibly tedious.

Of course not everything is a conspiracy. And of course those with the power to do so routinely decide what true information is spun to the public or what wholly false information is floated instead. Contending that the normal course of human history requires an unfathomably vast conspiracy is so, so, so shallow state. Even Edward Gibbon knew better.

Found a transcript of David Brown's remarks at the press conference on the Thursday night, while the negotiations were continuing.

It won't let me copy text or view source, what is this magic?! Does anyone know how to do that?

Anyway it mentions garage, three other suspects in custody, and that their assumption at that point was that the four people were working together, "triangulating at elevated positions."

Edit - more David Brown transcripts here, but you only get four views on that domain. Please would someone who knows how find some of the weirdness?

And did David Brown definitely say his department "misspoke for days," or did a reporter bring that in?

will it let you do a screen capture?

It should... didn't think to do that though, and now I'm out of views (for today).

Stefano, (if you are using Firefox) just go to preferences->privacy->delete individual cookies. Type in ONLY the particular site that's saying you've "reached your limit" and delete all. Refresh the page and it should work. In the past month I've learned just to keep the preferences tab always active.

Again, only individual cookies not the whole kit and kaboodle.

From the website of El Centro college, July 8 (the day after the shootings):

Dear El Centro College Family,

We are saddened by the incomprehensible tragedy that occurred in downtown Dallas last night right in front of our main building complex.

[...]

You may be watching the local and national news reporting on the tragedy. It is still an ongoing investigation and is under the control of local and federal law enforcement officials; not all of the information being reported is necessarily accurate. The parking garage mistakenly associated with the shooting is owned by Bank of America and not El Centro College, as reported by the news media. We can confirm that the perpetrator entered the second floor of the “C” building.

http://elcentrocollege.edu/category/news/

I think stickdog is right that the DPD only finally changed its story (from parking-garage to college) because the college already knew and had stated publicly that the whole "parking garage" yarn was false.

- Can any of you open this gif (campus map)? -- http://www.elcentrocollege.edu/Campus_I ... p_2010.gif

Here's Chief Brown's press conference on Monday July 11, where -- according to AP -- he said that the Dept had "misspoke for days":



Listening to it right now; 37 mins into this 49-min recording, he's still not addressed this question of the shooter's location. ON EDIT: from 41:50 onwards -"where that happened was in the building proper, not in the garage. We misspoke on that. [...] Second floor ... I can't describe what part, but we'll get the details ..."

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/ar ... d=11674637
Emmy-winning US news producer’s career in tatters after racist online rants, bombing threat

- Can any of you open this gif (campus map)?

Nope.

Some more details here, from July 11:

Eight other staff, mostly custodial, crammed into a ground floor janitorial closet in the "C" building on the western side of the college. Hannigan says the shooter Micah X. Johnson barricaded himself directly above on the second floor of the building.

Hannigan says five officers were assigned to keep the college secure during the rally before the shooting started.

Two officers, Corporal Bryan Shaw and Officer John Abbott were both wounded from flying glass shattering. Shaw also sustained injuries from bullet fragments that entered his abdomen.

Hannigan says none of his officers ever fired at Johnson because they never had a clear line of sight on him.

"They realized he did enter a stair well immediately after entering the Elm Street doors because of a blood trace on the floor," Hannigan says.

El Centro College president Jose Adames said the campus is working on rescheduling finals for the summer session that were originally set for Friday.

A more immediate concern he said was repairing ceilings and walls that have numerous bullet holes in them. He added that the wiring to some computer servers were damaged when the bomb used to kill Johnson was detonated.

http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/dallas-a ... /269930884

and here (Dallas Morning News, July 8 ):

El Centro officials: Shooting occurred from west-side building, not just [sic] east-side garage

By Corbett Smith Follow @corbettsmithDMN corbettsmith@dallasnews.com

Staff Writer
Published: 08 July 2016 06:25 PM
Updated: 08 July 2016 07:33 PM

...

Reports offered by [Dallas County Community College District Chancellor Joe] May and El Centro president Jose Adames diverged from a current narrative on where the majority of the shooting occurred. According to Adames, the sniper, Micah Xavier Johnson, shot out the locked glass doors at El Centro and proceeded to the second floor of Building C, on the west side of the complex, at the corner of Elm and Market streets. Some reports had Johnson shooting solely [sic] from a parking garage owned by Bank of America on Lamar Street, adjacent to the east side of El Centro.

...

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/crime/he ... garage.ece

So, very shortly after the shooting started, at 9pm, police knew (at the very least) that the/a shooter had entered El Centro college and was now somewhere upstairs there. I have no idea why this whole "parking garage" bullshit was ever concocted.

there is a theme park fifteen miles from downtown where they do an old west shoot-out. the guns are real but with blanks and the actors are convincing. i heard the other day that there are present-day dopplegangers for the '86 challenger crew. same names, same looks, various careers. is that an internet meme?

i heard the other day that there are present-day dopplegangers for the '86 challenger crew. same names, same looks, various careers. is that an internet meme?

Elihu, this is offtopic. (But here: http://www.cluesforum.info/viewtopic.ph ... &start=750 )