How cynical can you be if you seriously think the Clintonista machine would ever contemplate taking on Sanders as VP?
Well very, because for Clinton to offer it would have to show that either 1. That was the plan all along or 2. She believes he would be that easy to control and manage and his policy planks could be "entertained" but not implemented.
And for Bernie to accept it would show that either 1. That was the plan all along or 2. He's willing to sacrifice most of what he believes in to still get the chance to yak about it.
And realistically what it will come down to (in this scenario) is saying to Bernie, "If you don't join the ticket as VP and heal the party, heal the nation, blah blah, you will get Trump elected. Are you that far opposed to Hilary's policies that you will willingly help implement Trump's?"
It's basically a Games of Thrones type shotgun marriage to end two warring kingdoms so the King of the Underworld won't instead enslave everyone for all time.
And really why do we think Clinton and Sanders hate and loathe each other so much? Because the media told us they do. Because <gasp> Bernie said/implied she's not qualified and takes money from rich people. Yeah, no candidate has ever said that about another candidate before.
Re: Bernie Sanders running for preznit?
Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 7:46 pm
by Laodicean
Re: Bernie Sanders running for preznit?
Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 9:21 pm
by JackRiddler
If Sanders wants real influence nothing is stopping him from continuing the fundraising and rallying and building an organization after the presumed nomination of Clinton.
Re: Bernie Sanders running for preznit?
Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 9:36 am
by Luther Blissett
Have we discussed the Sanders-Trump debate? Jill Stein has asked to be included as well. I have to admit a stupid giddiness.
LANCASTER, Calif. — In the latest twist to this unpredictable 2016 presidential race, presumptive Republican nominee Donald Trump and Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders independently agreed Wednesday night to debate each other.
On ABC's "Jimmy Kimmel Live!" Trump was asked if he would consider holding a debate with Sanders. Trump agreed to the idea.
"If he paid a sum toward charity I would love to do that," said the business mogul, noting that a Sanders vs. Trump debate "would have such high ratings."
Sanders quickly responded with a tweet reading, "Game On. I look forward to debating Donald Trump in California before the June 7th primary."
This response was also a jab at Democratic front-runner Hillary Clinton, who this week declined to face off with Sanders in a previously agreed upon California debate.
Sanders said during a Santa Monica rally Monday that he was "disturbed but not surprised" that Clinton "backed out of the debate."
Clinton's communications director Jennifer Palmieri wrote in a statement that her candidate's time was "best spent campaigning and meeting directly with voters across California."
Neck-and-Neck in California as Sanders Virtually Erases 50-Point Deficit
New poll shows Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton in statistical tie less than two weeks before California's Democratic primary
Re: Bernie Sanders running for preznit?
Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 12:19 pm
by NeonLX
Direct quotes from my Fakebook feed re: the Drumpf/Sanders debate:
"When vapid attention whores collide. Shall we have a Kardashian moderate?"
"Matched Pair"
Jeezuz.
Re: Bernie Sanders running for preznit?
Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 12:23 pm
by JackRiddler
I wouldn't do it if I couldn't get the condition that it will be about issues and not about Clinton.
Re: Bernie Sanders running for preznit?
Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 10:02 am
by 8bitagent
Not only have I not met or seen a Hillary Clinton supporter in real life, I have yet to meet a Sanders supporter who would ever vote for Clinton. And I'd say virtually everyone I encounter or see across the social media spectrum is a rabid Berner. It'd take me pages and pages to type out why I feel Clinton is just as bad as George W Bush, but the "OMG Trump will win tho" argument to fall in line behind Clinton will be immense. If the Democrats are suppose to be liberal and progressive, than we need a real progressive. Not someone whose rapist husband was good buddies with the GOP nominee.
Re: Bernie Sanders running for preznit?
Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 11:43 am
by NeonLX
8bitagent » Fri May 27, 2016 9:02 am wrote:Not only have I not met or seen a Hillary Clinton supporter in real life, I have yet to meet a Sanders supporter who would ever vote for Clinton. And I'd say virtually everyone I encounter or see across the social media spectrum is a rabid Berner. It'd take me pages and pages to type out why I feel Clinton is just as bad as George W Bush, but the "OMG Trump will win tho" argument to fall in line behind Clinton will be immense. If the Democrats are suppose to be liberal and progressive, than we need a real progressive. Not someone whose rapist husband was good buddies with the GOP nominee.
I have a couple of friends who are Clintonistas. Our relationship has cooled considerably as a result of my enthusiastic* support of Bernie. Through them, I've learned that I'm a sociopathic, misogynistic, privileged white feller. Yes, I am personally responsible for The Donald ascending to the preznitcy (the neoliberal, war-hawk DNC is held harmless). ----------------------------------------- *As enthusiastic as I can be after decades of getting kicked in the teeth by the federal gubmint.
8bitagent » Fri May 27, 2016 9:02 am wrote:Not only have I not met or seen a Hillary Clinton supporter in real life, I have yet to meet a Sanders supporter who would ever vote for Clinton. And I'd say virtually everyone I encounter or see across the social media spectrum is a rabid Berner. It'd take me pages and pages to type out why I feel Clinton is just as bad as George W Bush, but the "OMG Trump will win tho" argument to fall in line behind Clinton will be immense. If the Democrats are suppose to be liberal and progressive, than we need a real progressive. Not someone whose rapist husband was good buddies with the GOP nominee.
I have a couple of friends who are Clintonistas. Our relationship has cooled considerably as a result of my enthusiastic* support of Bernie. Through them, I've learned that I'm a sociopathic, misogynistic, privileged white feller. Yes, I am personally responsible for The Donald ascending to the preznitcy (the neoliberal, war-hawk DNC is held harmless). ----------------------------------------- *As enthusiastic as I can be after decades of getting kicked in the teeth by the federal gubmint.
You're fucked up in the head holmes. One should not support who they support. It is a crime that cannot be seen if you are in fact committing it. It's the beauty of it all. Just stand in amazement and let it take over.
Re: Bernie Sanders running for preznit?
Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 12:03 pm
by Luther Blissett
You can remind them that incrementalism is a far more privileged position, since children are starving today and incremental change will never come anyway.
Re: Bernie Sanders running for preznit?
Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 12:10 pm
by Belligerent Savant
.
Alas, Hillary supporters exist, and are relatively plentiful (not necessarily plentiful enough to win an election, of course, but we all know that matters not). This is AMERICA, after all: what passes for objective analysis/discernment is determined by the more prolific/ubiquitous media puppets.
See the comments section within the below link as Exhibit A (you can search throughout Gawker media for the comments section in any postings related to the current Election cycle; invariably you'll find a number of comments/discussions that will inspire gag reflex.)
Who is voting for Hillary? I know people voting for Trump and Bernie, but I don’t know anyone who’s voting for Hillary? Who are these people?
Not Her Real Name Cathy plupien79 5/25/16 9:33am
There’s about 13 million of us, buddy. Time to get some friends.
TaxpayerSubsidy plupien79 5/25/16 9:59am
More people than are voting for Bernie, actually. A lot more.
PaidHillaryShillinCali plupien79 5/25/16 11:03am
Yo, what’s up!
According to the exit polls in the 48 contests that have already taken place, it’s women, black voters, Hispanic voters, y’know... people that don’t have time in their lives to troll people who disagree with them on the internet all day, so we translate that as them being somehow ‘less passionate.’
I haven’t voted for her yet (in this contest, anyway - I was proud to vote for her as my Senator when I was a New Yorker), but I will do on 6/7.
HarvestMoon Not Her Real Name Cathy 5/25/16 11:11am
Of the non-angry white man variety.
keverdene plupien79 5/25/16 11:13am
Maybe no one talks about it with you because every time Hillary supporters announce themselves, they get called cunts or shills?
Just a thought.
plupien79 keverdene 5/25/16 11:47am
That could be it. I do really just want to know. I personally don’t see how she appeals to any of the voting population. I can at least see why people are voting for Trump.
TaxpayerSubsidy plupien79 5/25/16 12:44pm
“I personally don’t see how she appeals to any of the voting population.”
That just might be why your Hillary-supporting friends don’t feel like talking to you about it.
keverdene plupien79 5/25/16 1:59pm
She is indisputably and objectively one of the most qualified and pre-vetted candidates for President in our nation’s history.
She’s also effected more measurable, real, legitimate change for progressive causes than Bernie and his entire campaign staff put together.
If you’re seriously suggesting she’s got no mojo with voters, then you’re either a) a troll; b) only reading Bernie/FoxNews propaganda; or c) legitimately in need of doing a little research to feel better and inform yourself.
[If the answer is a), you’re getting dismissed and flagged. Sorry to be rude, but it’s completely implausible by any objective measure to suggest she’s not a relevant or popular candidate.]
plupien79 keverdene 5/25/16 3:09pm
Again, trying hard to not sound like a troll, but I’ve not gotten to talk with anyone who supports her for any realistic reason.
I find her untrustworthy, this is do to inconsistency during her time in the public eye.
I do see the experience factor, as she’s been in Washington a long time and wouldn’t have a large learning curve coming into office.
gawkophile plupien79 5/25/16 3:28pm
They’re in nursing homes and Southern Baptist churches.
DisinterestedPasserby plupien79 5/25/16 5:57pm
You’re totally right. Those almost thirteen million votes must have been all miscounted Bernie votes.
plupien79 DisinterestedPasserby 5/26/16 10:17am
Maybe I’m having some “Sore Loser” issues from seeing my preferred candidate not get the support that I see in my peer groups.
The thought of the general election being Trump/Hillary makes me ask myself the question. Should I write in the candidate I believe in. Or should I just suck it up and vote for Hillary cause the math says it’s the only way to keep Trump out of office?
plupien79 TaxpayerSubsidy 5/26/16 10:18am
I don’t see how, I’m willing to have a adult conversation about it, as I am here.
keverdene plupien79 5/26/16 11:23am
All I can say to that is, consider the source. People who say she’s untrustworthy tend to be people who oppose her.
Her staff is intensely loyal, she has four decades of proof that she works for progressive causes (children’s health insurance, education reform, voting rights, etc.... all issues she’s done real, demonstrable, lasting work on at the federal and local level), and she’s had more scrutiny on her financial and personal relationships than any other candidate—with zero indictments.
You may also want to do a gut check on how you react to her. Not trying to call you out, but a lot of people have an unrecognized fear of powerful women. That’s especially true if the woman doesn’t fit a traditional model of feminity. Hillary’s not maternal and she’s not sexy. That throws off even the most fair-minded person’s sub-cortex. Maybe your conscious brain doesn’t trust her because your subconscious brain doesn’t know how to categorize her. That’s not an accusation, just pointing out the reality of how systemic sexism happens. It may not be a factor for you, but it’s def a factor for a lot of people who can’t seem to put their finger on why they don’t like her.
TaxpayerSubsidy plupien79 5/26/16 1:29pm
“I’m willing to have a adult conversation about it, as I am here.”
Excellent. I’m glad to hear it.
I’d recommend you start by reviewing her actual record. Read about her advocacy for health care, for which she was excoriated back in the 1990s. Start with the Rural Health Advisory Committee in Arkansas, then jump to her work on the State Children’s Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) when she was First Lady.
If you think it’s good that the Department of Justice has an “Office on Violence Against Women”, you have Hillary in part to thank for that.
I personally think guns are a huge issue, and one of the biggest differences between the two Democratic candidates. Hillary has a long record of supporting gun control, both as First Lady and in the Senate. That’s important in earning my vote.
Then there’s the historic speech on LGBT issues she gave as Secretary of State, saying that gay rights “are human rights”. She elevated the debate as the highest-profile advocate for gay rights in American history, second only to President Obama. That speech has to be on YouTube, so it should be easy to find.
You should also probably read about her work in the Senate, securing federal funds for New York after 9/11 and her bills securing better health care for 9/11 first responders. While we’re on the Senate, Google “Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act”, which President Obama thought significant enough to be the first bill he signed into law.
I’m not saying that she has to be everybody’s first most favorite candidate. But there’s a reason why more people have voted for her than any other candidate of either party in this campaign. Over thirteen million people so far, and she appeals to them for all the reasons above and more.
If, after all that, you still “don’t see how she appeals to any of the voting population”, then I can’t help you.
Re: Bernie Sanders running for preznit?
Posted: Sun May 29, 2016 7:54 am
by conniption
Real Time with Bill Maher: Bernie Sanders Interview – May 27, 2016 (HBO)
Sanders is quite good in that clip and so is Maher, since he can do that, but if they wanted to make me feel that the identity of one of Sanders' supporters is a reason not to support him, they could start with Maher. You know what I mean?
8bitagent » Fri May 27, 2016 9:02 am wrote:Not only have I not met or seen a Hillary Clinton supporter in real life, I have yet to meet a Sanders supporter who would ever vote for Clinton. And I'd say virtually everyone I encounter or see across the social media spectrum is a rabid Berner. It'd take me pages and pages to type out why I feel Clinton is just as bad as George W Bush, but the "OMG Trump will win tho" argument to fall in line behind Clinton will be immense. If the Democrats are suppose to be liberal and progressive, than we need a real progressive. Not someone whose rapist husband was good buddies with the GOP nominee.
I have a couple of friends who are Clintonistas. Our relationship has cooled considerably as a result of my enthusiastic* support of Bernie. Through them, I've learned that I'm a sociopathic, misogynistic, privileged white feller. Yes, I am personally responsible for The Donald ascending to the preznitcy (the neoliberal, war-hawk DNC is held harmless). ----------------------------------------- *As enthusiastic as I can be after decades of getting kicked in the teeth by the federal gubmint.
You're fucked up in the head holmes. One should not support who they support. It is a crime that cannot be seen if you are in fact committing it. It's the beauty of it all. Just stand in amazement and let it take over.
Countdown to when my fellow Bernie friends IRL and online start screaming at us for not falling in line behind Clinton, because "lesser of two evils". How horrible is it, that the Im With Her cultists only have "she's the lesser of two evils" argument...given Hillary and her rapist husband were close friends and golfing buddies with Trump
