rigorousintuition.ca

“Whether Lincoln ever went beyond being an anti-slavery white supremacist,” Fredrickson writes, “is a question that is difficult to resolve.”
Abraham Lincoln, Racist - NYTimes.com
Dec 10, 2008 ... The bonanza of Lincolniana is great for obsessives who can never get enough of the man. But I think most readers, if they want to read another ...
artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/12/10/abraham-lincoln-racist/ - Cached - Similar

Comrades- Lincoln was pro-slavery. I repost for your perusal:

Not only did Lincoln support this slavery forever amendment, but the amendment was his idea from the very beginning.

Lincoln’s slavery forever amendment read as follows:

"No amendment shall be made to the Constitution which will authorize or give to Congress the power to abolish or interfere, within any State, with the domestic institutions thereof, including that of persons held to labor or service by the laws of said State. (See U.S. House of Representatives, 106th Congress, 2nd Session, The Constitution of the United States of America: Unratified Amendments, Doc. No. 106-214) ...

In his first inaugural address Dishonest Abe explicitly supported this amendment while pretending that he hardly knew anything about it (i.e., lying) ...

Lincoln was not an abolitionist and, unlike Lysander Spooner, he believed that slavery was already constitutional. Nevertheless, he also favored making it "express and irrevocable."

Thus, let us amuse ourselves as racists or Ron Paul supporters this was a war to free black people from oppression. A war that created a feral national government and martial law, 2 million deaths and gave us Reconstruction, Jim Crow and Black Codes and Corporate personhood. The War was of course not to save Jerusalem or free the slaves but it had to become a mystical crusade to save the Federal State. The logic is of the War Machine and the War Making Executive Branch.

Some years later, not many, Washingon D.C, became not only the seat of the new national government but became the CORPORATE UNITED STATES.

The War Between The States-a dispute between Federal Authority and the states which chose to leave the union. Sovereignty is the quality of having supreme, independent authority over a geographic area, such as a territory. It can be found in a power to rule and make law. Abraham Lincoln as war dictator exercised his power under the former Constitution to create a State of War without Congress declaring war. Macht Politik is not Constitutional Politik. History is written by the winners but we of a later time having repose and leisure are fit I think to scan our pious historical education (as approved by the Federal government) and think: what if no Civil War?

If two million men had not died in combat but the South permitted to leave and return to the union at leisure? If wives had not lost husbands and mothers their sons? If women had not been raped and cities not razed to the ground? If Sherman had never marched? If Gettysburg had not happened?You scoff at me for seeing the Civll War Federal government as Tyrant and for seeing in the modern Presidency some taint of that power as especiallly depicted in the creation of the CORPORATE UNITED STATES. You scoff, but that war proclaimed in blood and bone only the Federal government was Sovereign and now the sovereign citizen is a SLAVE of the Federal Republic.
Woodrow Wilson too was a War Dictator. FDR also a War Dictator and his chosen successor Truman was elevated to American Caesar.

You are apologists for power politics and two million dead. You are the progessive minds of the modern age. The Bureaucratic Welfare State is not a deviation of the Warfare State. The Bureaucratic Welfare State is the open maw of it. War breeds more war, conflict more conflict, just cause follows just cause, Crusade after Crusade, and in American history after the Mexican War the sectional differences mounted to the point of an open contest for relative and absolute political power between the Center and the Periphery. May a soverign people chose to peacefully leave a civic union? On what grounds does become an Insurrection? Is the best and only arena to test this issue among former members of the Federal union Macht Politik? Why not the Supreme Court? Why not simply emancipate the South and live and let live? What harm is caused by accepting local control? Is not peace and amity more benefical to both the Constitution and freedom? Lincoln needed war and prosecution of it created the modern Executive War Dictatorship.

.

publius, such a collection of bullshit questions leading those with whom you disagree into a straitjacket: we are blind followers of Lincoln (as if I care what he "really" thought) and supporters of war, the total state, tyranny, mass murder, racism, bureaucracy, the corporate all-caps UNITED STATES, and all bad things. How is one supposed to respond to such a set of boobytraps, except to walk away?

Last page also started confrontationally, but I believe it turned out more interesting than this one is shaping up:
http://rigorousintuition.ca/board2/view ... &start=570

Hey, didn't someone have a question about Ron Paul, the fuck-ee of this thread?

.

Ron Paul represents the decay of the American Federal system. Ron Paul appeals to a strong anti-Federalist sentiment. He also has a strong nativist white appeal. The Establishment he runs against is the Federal system. In the 60's this was called Pentagonism. Ron Paul poses as a 3d choice, he has his agenda, he plays a part in the Federal election game. He also represents a possibility for an ideology, as do say the La Rouche youth. In the time of Occupy a look back 150 years ago is quite instructive. The Lincoln Presidency and his Civil War. Think of it as premature anti-Fascism. A look back at this one President and his decisions that created the Executive Branch War Dictatorship. "As political theorist Michael Parenti points out, historians often overlook Fascism's economic agenda--the partnership between Big Capital and Big Government--in their analysis of its authoritarian social program. Indeed, according to Bertram Gross in his startlingly prescient Friendly Fascism (1980), it is possible to achieve fascist goals within an ostensibly democratic society."---Richard Heinberg http://www.nexusmagazine.com//corporations.html

sounder wrote:

So, it seems then that principles did come into play and they were a threat to slaveholder moneymaking pursuits.

Yes, but by omission this whole argument and story is a little bit out of context. (not because of you sounder but just because foreign influence hasn't been stressed enough)

So far the conversation has been mostly, but not all, confined to disagreements between the north and south and the slavery issue.

Its not like Europe ever intended to let the United States succeed without controlling it, and Europe did everything under their power to gain control. Europe was successful and it now owns the United States lot stock and barrel. I always roll my eyes when people speak of "U.S. hegemony" because for people as intelligent as RI readers these statements seem like insult to the intellect of most RI readers in my opinion. <Yes, that is the dialectic we are to believe but its hardly accurate. The U.S. army is only a wing of the European empire and its been so for many many decades.

Its not like most of those politicians (Europe or United States) cared if the black slaves were emancipated because quite frankly freedom for the slaves was the last thing on their minds. (most of them anyway)

Most of the politicians in the United States were concerned about enriching themselves and the same goes for the politicians in Europe. As far as slavery goes the European politicians desired not much more than to make wage slaves out the whole of the United States regardless of race, and the same goes for the financiers that backed them.

Europe was actually more of a deciding factor in the outcome of the late 1800's because that is where the true money power was harbored. An enormous amount of non-stop pressure came from Europe. Not only did Lincoln have to contend with the south but he had to contend with heavy financial pressures from Europe.

European financial powers were financing arms shipments for the southern army. European financiers were shipping war supplies to the south. They shipped arms to the south to keep the Hegelian Dialectic in fine shape. You know, the divide and conquer thing. Set up two opposites and knock them both down, the twin towers thing.. In an effort to counter this Lincoln enlisted the help of Russia. Russia sent war ships to the United States to counter the European financial powers.

Why did Russia want to help? Why were the European financial powers so desperate to help the south? Easy answer is the fact that Lincoln was determined to run the foreign lenders out of the country and let the nation print its own currency. Also at this time Russia had control of its own currency and knew that if Europe gained control of the currency of the United States it would lose a valuable ally and become more vulnerable to the European lenders.

So the story goes Lincoln put through anti-usury and other strict banking laws, sold bonds directly to the people and issued hundreds of millions of national currency. Shortly after he caught a bullet with his brain, and his brain hated it. Fast forward to JFK. Same old story, same as it ever was...So to pretend that slavery was the main issue at play here is a far stretch of the imagination.


**and with an edit** Russia got theirs later. Europe crashed their economy and it has never recovered. They now cruise their warships near the Straight of Hormuz but with what conviction? Who is actually pulling Russian strings? Maybe its that set up two opposite forces in order to knock them both down thing, that twin towers thing, all over again. Food for thought. This a thousands year old formula. Out of the ashes rises the phoenix. Those who ride the Phoenix (dragon) profit. Those who get ground under the wings of the Phoenix suffer. Those who don't 'ride' the Phoenix, but consider themselves a facilitator of it, get burned and used in the flames as a patsy and wonder why they didn't profit. Same as it ever was...

And since I've decided to speak i'll say this...Is Ron Paul a perfect candidate? No he is not. Does he have warts? He might because there may be some evidence that he doesn't value black people as he does white people. Even if the former is true his voting proves that he is an advocate of freeing an entire nation from the bonds of debt. Debt,and control over it, is the impetus of 99% of racial problems and war in this entire world and has been for thousands of years. Its that set up two opposites and knock them both down thing, that twin towers thing, pitting race against race to protect the debt slavery thing again, as always...

I am watching the debate right now. There are four people in the debate. Paul is the only candidate on the stage, that when he speaks, that the other three candidates crane their necks in an effort to look at his face when he speaks. They want see his face when he speaks because they know he is speaking his convictions. Amazing to watch it too. When the other candidates speak, the non-speaking candidates stare blankly at their podiums, the wall, or the crowd, and they listen blankly because they know their fellows are speaking utter bullshit and they know that none of them, other than Paul, are speaking for the people.

Paul may not be speaking for all the people equally, but at least he is speaking for some of them, and at this point in history i'm willing to settle for that. I'm willing to hope for the best of compassion humanity has to offer, because if some of humanity can be freed, maybe they will take care of the people he may not be whole heartedly speaking for.

Otherwise we are all fucked, lot stock and barrel. Some people have to be free enough to take care of the rest, and as it stands right now, nobody will be free enough to do that shortly. Nobody will be free enough to reach down and take care of the people he 'may' not be speaking for. The way out of debt is the way to freedom and those who don't see that can't SEE or pretend not to. Something has to change or all of humanity is doomed.

They came for the blacks and nobody spoke. They came for the REAL jews and nobody spoke. They came for the browns and nobody spoke. They came for the yellow man and nobody spoke. They are coming for everybody now and if nobody is free then there is nobody to free the rest.

All of humanity may not get out of bondage at the exact same time equally but if some don't get free none get free. ever....end of story.

This is too complicated to extricate every single race, religion, creed, sexual preference, and ethnic background equally at the same time and that is blatantly obvious. But somebody has to be free enough to extricate the rest...Expecting perfection in the process of freeing humanity is a fools game of semantics and dashed dreams.

Humanity better hope somebody frees somebody, even if its not immediately you, so they can free you, or you better be riding the head of the Phoenix...

The only slaves that get freed, get freed by free people. If you think this is a bit dramatic look at the legislation that is being passed in your front yard. If you think that simply because you sit near the Phoenix that the fire won't get you, well then you are sadly mistaken, because you're first on the list as soon as there are no more free black white yellow brown people. Know why? Simple. Your blood isn't Royal enough to live, and mainly because you know too much, according to the fire starters.

Sometimes I just want to shake my fist at the sky, crying out: "Lord, how many more innocent anti-Europeans will have to die before people realize that anti-Europeanism is, was, always has been and always will be a psy-op?"
____________________

That's not a joke, btw. I wish it were.

compared2what? wrote:

Sometimes I just want to shake my fist at the sky, crying out: "Lord, how many more innocent anti-Europeans will have to die before people realize that anti-Europeanism is, was, always has been and always will be a psy-op?"
____________________

That's not a joke, btw. I wish it were.

That was pretty funny but...

I'm not ANTI anybody. You don't know my heritage and don't suppose that you do. European PEOPLE have nothing to do with this. Europe is a place of geography and nothing more. Europe just happens to be the seat of power and its common people are as great as any people on the earth. The people that live there are victims of the same system. The United States is the same. The United States is bombing half the earth but its common PEOPLE have nothing to do with it. End of story.

eyeno wrote:I'm not ANTI anybody. You don't know my heritage and don't suppose that you do. European PEOPLE have nothing to do with this. Europe is a place of geography and nothing more. Europe just happens to be the seat of power and its common people are as great as any people on the earth. The people that live there are victims of the same system. The United States is the same. The United States is bombing half the earth but its common PEOPLE have nothing to do with it. End of story.

Theres been so much diatribic "analysis" of this situation offered by so called "intellectuals" this last couple of pages, that I cant add the only other quote from Elihu that sums the whole state of this thread and election up in a nutshell, and then extend it to the rest of humanity.

I guess its too simple to suggest why Ron Paul actually accurately fits Einsteins model of insanity ? Thats why I admire him all the more for trying, because he probably knows full well what happens next. I guess at 76, at least he's long outlived both Lincoln and Kennedy..... and Hitler ....and Saddam.... and Quaddaffi, and probably any Iranian trying to resist the Spider, so figures he'll give it one last shot.

It appears in this life you can do whatever you like, even become President or dictator /Mass murdering psychotic invading half the world (thats good for the spiders ethereal section). But dont whatever you do start thinking you can print your own money

eyeno wrote:

compared2what? wrote:

Sometimes I just want to shake my fist at the sky, crying out: "Lord, how many more innocent anti-Europeans will have to die before people realize that anti-Europeanism is, was, always has been and always will be a psy-op?"
____________________

That's not a joke, btw. I wish it were.

That was pretty funny but...

I'm not ANTI anybody.

Um....I know? Your username, I mean. Although I also just mean, "I know you're not a hater." That's honestly exactly why the anti-(age-old-cosmic-evil-of-bankers-and-usurers-who-run-the-world-and-aren't-like-regular-people) stuff makes me as crazed with despair as it does. Seriously. Did you ever have one of those nightmares where you try to call out for help (or something like that) and find you can't make a sound?

I feel like that.

You don't know my heritage and don't suppose that you do.

I swear that I do not. I really didn't mean to suggest anything about your heritage.

European PEOPLE have nothing to do with this. Europe is a place of geography and nothing more. Europe just happens to be the seat of power and its common people are as great as any people on the earth. The people that live there are victims of the same system. The United States is the same. The United States is bombing half the earth but its common PEOPLE have nothing to do with it. End of story.

Honestly. Please believe me. I totally got that you were not suggesting that Europe or the United States be wiped off the map.

Or that anybody be.

I don't know. I like you, eyeno. I really do. It's definitely true that I just about never agree with you about anything at all. But that's neither reason nor cause for personal ill feeling, afaic. It mostly just makes me wish I understood other people and/or expressed myself better than I do.

Anyway. No offense intended. I really wasn't just joking either, though. FWIW.

JackRiddler wrote:.


Hey, didn't someone have a question about Ron Paul, the fuck-ee of this thread?

.

I have a few. But I guess I'll start with the one that'll probably go nowhere, just to get it out of the way:

Is he or is he not a Vietnam vet, does anyone know?

I see some general consensus that he was a flight surgeon (active-duty Air Force, '63 - '65; and ??Air National Guard, '65 - '68). But no details about where or with whom or medals/ribbons or any of that stuff. In either case, although I assume that the ANG duty was in the States.

It's just a little unusual for that stuff not to be more fleshed out, especially for a politician who's as popular with members of the military as he is. That's all. You'd think some enterprising member of the press would have looked into it.

That's honestly exactly why the anti-(age-old-cosmic-evil-of-bankers-and-usurers-who-run-the-world-and-aren't-like-regular-people) stuff makes me as crazed with despair as it does. Seriously. Did you ever have one of those nightmares where you try to call out for help (or something like that) and find you can't make a sound?

If you ever get those age old tropes and labels out of your head, and get down to brass tacks cause and effect, you won't have those nightmares. This isn't complicated, unless you use all those labels with all those bogus meanings attached to them.

I say this with affection, I really do.


**edit**and added

Um....I know? Your username, I mean.

my username means many things in one. If you look at my avatar, and you understand the hidden, it becomes "transparent." i'm a product of things that are not of 'this' world but 'another' world. and that should be enough for the knows nos nose sowks son etc....and i really won't say more about that

I appreciate it. I get as close to the brass tacks as I can, in my way. It is partly a question of style, after all.

compared2what? wrote:

JackRiddler wrote:.


Hey, didn't someone have a question about Ron Paul, the fuck-ee of this thread?

.

I have a few. But I guess I'll start with the one that'll probably go nowhere, just to get it out of the way:

Is he or is he not a Vietnam vet, does anyone know?

I see some general consensus that he was a flight surgeon (active-duty Air Force, '63 - '65; and ??Air National Guard, '65 - '68). But no details about where or with whom or medals/ribbons or any of that stuff. In either case, although I assume that the ANG duty was in the States.

It's just a little unusual for that stuff not to be more fleshed out, especially for a politician who's as popular with members of the military as he is. That's all. You'd think some enterprising member of the press would have looked into it.

This was from a Veterans site
Ron Paul
Paul’s medical training was interrupted when he was drafted during the Cuban Missile Crisis into the United States Air Force. He remained in the military during the early years of the Vietnam War. He was never sent to Vietnam, instead serving active duty (1963-1965) that took him to other countries, including South Korea, Iran, Ethiopia and Turkey. He served as a flight surgeon out of Kelly Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas from 1963 to 1965. He then served in the Air National Guard from 1965 to 1968 while completing his medical residency in Pittsburgh.

Read more at YouServed: http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/20 ... z1jzxIsH61

From Open Secrets: Presidential candidates generally raise the vast majority of their campaign dollars from donors in states with the largest concentrations of population and wealth: New York, California, Florida, Washington, D.C., Illinois and Texas. In addition, they may also receive significant amounts from within their home state, depending on the size of the state and the wealth of its economic base.

The failure of civic leadership over 150 years has created a decayed Federal structure and an open season for lunacy. Power will not cede her perquisities without a fight and the CORPORATE UNITED STATES aka the Empire of Law building the North American Union also will not roll over and play dead. Ron Paul runs and shouts and drags nativists, racists, and small government types into his train with his propaganda appeal. At the other end of this same CORPORATE SPECTRUM are all the other Republicans including Obama. Ron Paul you note will not abolish CORPORATE PERSONHOOD either, but will agree they are not persons.

This money is for RP:
"No State" means that there was no state listed on contribution report.


Texas $654,989 13%
California $643,209 13%
Florida $366,013 8%
New York $247,435 5%
Other States $2,964,597 61%
Top Metro Areas
HOUSTON $169,111
LOS ANGELES-LONG BEACH $163,910
NEW YORK $151,387
AUSTIN-SAN MARCOS $118,971
WASHINGTON, DC-MD-VA-WV $107,843
Top Zip Codes
89511 (Reno, NV) $16,652
52556 (Fairfield, IA) $11,752
85254 (Scottsdale, AZ) $10,101
10022 (New York, NY) $9,951
18073 (Pennsburg, PA) $9,228
77479 (Sugar Land, TX) $9,201
10011 (New York, NY) $9,051
98004 (Bellevue, WA) $8,851
89451 (Incline Village, NV) $8,750
77566 (Lake Jackson, TX) $8,701
METHODOLOGY: The numbers on this page are calculated from contributions of more than $200 from individuals, as reported to the Federal Election Commission. PAC dollars are not included.

Searcher08 wrote:
This was from a Veterans site
Ron Paul
Paul’s medical training was interrupted when he was drafted during the Cuban Missile Crisis into the United States Air Force. He remained in the military during the early years of the Vietnam War. He was never sent to Vietnam, instead serving active duty (1963-1965) that took him to other countries, including South Korea, Iran, Ethiopia and Turkey. He served as a flight surgeon out of Kelly Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas from 1963 to 1965. He then served in the Air National Guard from 1965 to 1968 while completing his medical residency in Pittsburgh.

Read more at YouServed: http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/20 ... z1jzxIsH61

Well, that's sure not what I was expecting to hear.

A few points of interest/note:

* He's exploiting the same semantic loophole that Bush did back in his gubernatorial days wrt claiming service in the USAF. If he was based at Kelly, he served in the Texas Air National Guard.

* The Cuban Missile Crisis was in 1962, and had no effect on conscription.

* The "Doctor Draft" had been in force for eons at that point. So it belatedly dawns on me that he always would have known that he was basically enlisting by going to med school, and presumably always would have had plans for meeting his service obligation.

* "South Korea, Iran, Ethiopia and Turkey"? Between 1963 and 1965, as a junior officer serving as a flight surgeon in the (probably) 149th?

I'd say that there's some specialty training of an extra-medical nature somewhere in that service record.
__________________

Fascinating.

http://www.ufocasebook.com/kellyafb.html
Confessions of an ex-Airman on Kelly AFB

Timeline 1960-1963.....We will call him airman Smith:

At the time this occured, airman Smith was stationed in W.Germany. One night he was orded to fly stateside for a hush-hush emergency. His orders were to secure damaged equiptment,store said equiptment in footlocker provided to him, sit on the locker, guard it with his life until he delivered it to an undisclosed location, where he was to disembark & repair damaged equiptment.

He landed in some unmarked landing strip somewhere in the Nevada desert, where he met up with two other airmen from two other spots on the globe. They all traveled together to the CRASH site in an old jeep. The craft was one of ours, proto-pre-SR71 or something like that. He stated it was some kind of (fast) recon bird. They (the technicians) each had a piece of equiptment assigned to them. They were each responsable for those individual pieces & were not allowed to talk to each other about what they were doing.

After retrieving the required parts, the were flown to Kelly/Kelley? AFB in Texas. They landed with no problem, this is where it gets kinda weird. As they are taxiing down the runway, they pull in between two hangars & were waiting for what he assumed would be one of thoses tow-vehicles to pull them into the hangar. The next thing he felt was very strange, he felt like they were going down, & after about 15 seconds as things got darker, he was quite sure of it. He estimated that it took about 3-5minutes to get to what he thought the bottom was. After diembarking from the plane, he was greeted by some gents that had black uniforms & black berets'. They had no markings or insignias at all. He did recall what he perceived as an enlisted man call one of the soliders Lieutenant.

The Hanger/ was estimated to be about 100yds long & 60-100ft high, in a semi-dome configuration or quansit-hut(sp?) I didn't get a chance to ask how wide, but he did say the aircraft could be turned around fully in the area. There were no windows in the walls, only reinforced steel doors. He(airman Smith) felt that this area branched off in four different directions, he didn't elaborate why he felt this except to say that that is the impression he got.

He & the other technicians were then escorted to separate small but highly sophisticated labs. He said the equiptment that he was allowed to use was years ahead of whatever was on the open market. He said that the most of the test equiptment he used was fairly easy to use as opposed to some of the equiptment he used on a daily basis.

They (The airmen) were to analyze the equiptment & repair it. Each of the labs were equipped with sleeping quarters & all meals were brought to them. He was there for three days & did not see another soul(with the exceptions of the guards of course) , & was not allowed to roam the area at all. He was debriefed before he left for quite a few hours.