I chose the simulation / dream / matrix option ... although I definitely make a distinction between the unreality that is being spun out around us on a daily basis at the local level and the non-physical nature of our larger existence.
Plato and Aristotle agreed that there was more to it than simple physical matter, but Aristotle felt it was more practical to create reality for others while Plato thought it would be better to teach people to know it for themselves. It was such a powerful idea to give people stories instead of The Story ... drama instead of The Drama.
The Story is real but the stories are just ... simulations.
And I can't find the smuggled hacksaw to cut through those black iron bars.
Re: How far down the rabbit hole do you go?
Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:29 am
by 8bitagent
I choose option #11: What does anything matter?
You're born without consent...you go through sandbox playing, bullying, forced school indoctrination, meet someone because of geographic circumstance, swap viscous fluid, pump out a baby or two, grow old and die.
I've come to realize ultimately it doesn't matter what is real, what is true, or any of this para-politic wankery game of Clue we seem fascinated with:)
Tho I also fully endorse this film too
Re: How far down the rabbit hole do you go?
Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:39 am
by Hammer of Los
...
When I saw a Walter Mitty remake was gonna be "the next big thing," my heart sank.
Personally, I am wary of anythinng that looks like a multiple choice. Especially as our present culture seems to rest mainly upon the number of those choices being two, maybe three on a good day.
(Even Neo got knocked upside the head with this one)
I tried to post the particular section of the movie, but Studio Canal have copyright-itis. ( unless anyone else can find it)
Must be your part of the world because I got it fine from the UK. There are some things that are resticted for UK viewers and I use a VPN/proxy to get around this (has to be downloaded as the proxy is too slow for streaming).
Does this work?:
(don't really like the specific 'Youtube' function on here)
Re: How far down the rabbit hole do you go?
Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:44 am
by Hammer of Los
...
I think we've seen that clip around here before.
...
Re: How far down the rabbit hole do you go?
Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:10 pm
by JackRiddler
jakell » Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:18 am wrote:Personally, I am wary of anythinng that looks like a multiple choice. Especially as our present culture seems to rest mainly upon the number of those choices being two, maybe three on a good day.
(Even Neo got knocked upside the head with this one)
Your answers are being logged for study. Thank you. Would you like to follow this link? You won't believe how inspired you will be by this video on Upworthy!
Re: How far down the rabbit hole do you go?
Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 6:52 pm
by brainpanhandler
Curious... for those of you who chose "This whole thing is a simulation / dream / matrix", how does that belief effect you? How do you view the suffering in the world? Do you vote? Why do you get up in the morning? How do you experience a beautiful sunset? What is your search for truth like? Do you search for the truth? Do you carry on as though everything were "real" and not a simulation/dream/matrix? If so, are you sure you really believe it? Do you feel you are more or less cynical/optimistic than the rest of us consensus reality folks? How do you maintain purpose in life? What is your purpose? How are your ethics effected by this belief? If consensus belief was that we inhabit a simulation / dream / matrix would you be the minority claiming that in fact reality really is real? How long have you believed this? How did you arrive at your belief? What books on the subject have you read? What movies have you seen on the subject?
Re: How far down the rabbit hole do you go?
Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:09 pm
by 82_28
It's not that it's not part of the "matrix" it's that is a constantly improving matrix in order for the matrix to exist in virtualization of every facet of life. So, yes. Matrix all the way -- even though I think I voted for the inside job.
We live within a sphere of constantly "improving" technology. And thus we are the matrix we are seeing/experiencing. Time flows backwards and forwards whether we like it or not. The only hiccup is that as units in this matrix we are forced to face natural entropy. Thus we, here now, because of entropy cannot pick a date out from the "past" and "go back to". Thus, we live in "the matrix" within the "time" of its most advanced development which will turn out to be pure virtualization. Virtualization is the old real. No not new real, old real.
The Empire Never Ended.
Re: How far down the rabbit hole do you go?
Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:35 pm
by Sounder
Saurian Tail wrote...
Plato and Aristotle agreed that there was more to it than simple physical matter, but Aristotle felt it was more practical to create reality for others while Plato thought it would be better to teach people to know it for themselves. It was such a powerful idea to give people stories instead of The Story ... drama instead of The Drama.
My impression of Aristotle's thinking is that even if forms are backed by or represent an ideal, we still only know that ideal in terms of the questions we ask.
So then, nobody knows it for themselves, they can only know it in terms of the questions asked.
Re: How far down the rabbit hole do you go?
Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:18 pm
by Wombaticus Rex
The Simulation Thesis has always kinda baffled me -- much like the hooplah over the "Anthropic Principle," it seems like an uroboros of cascading tautologies snuffing themselves out of existence in a single simmering second. You know?
Roll with me here. The Universe is precisely tuned to support human life precisely because human life has evolved to be here to take those measurements. It doesn't signify an intelligent creator, it just signifies the inevitable system requirements for the current moment, which, as we all know and often forget, it completely non-negotiable, unlike almost everything else humans talk and think about while we're here. Then again, I always thought the Descartes aphorism "I think, therefore I am" was a sad lament about the limitations of thought, rather than an inspirational spark of insight.
I see the Simulation Thesis the same way -- when you consider the system requirements for a simulation of this scale, it's basically 1:1 isomorphic to the Universe Thesis, which is based on the observation that HOLY FUCK WE ARE ALL INSIDE THIS HUGE THING RIGHT NOW AND IT IS ALIVE. Same reason I think the Singularity Thesis is just as much of an intellectual shrug as the recourse to theodicy, though: because I am.
Re: How far down the rabbit hole do you go?
Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:53 pm
by Hammer of Los
...
bph wrote:Curious... for those of you who chose "This whole thing is a simulation / dream / matrix", how does that belief effect you? How do you view the suffering in the world? Do you vote? Why do you get up in the morning? How do you experience a beautiful sunset? What is your search for truth like? Do you search for the truth? Do you carry on as though everything were "real" and not a simulation/dream/matrix? If so, are you sure you really believe it? Do you feel you are more or less cynical/optimistic than the rest of us consensus reality folks? How do you maintain purpose in life? What is your purpose? How are your ethics effected by this belief? If consensus belief was that we inhabit a simulation / dream / matrix would you be the minority claiming that in fact reality really is real? How long have you believed this? How did you arrive at your belief? What books on the subject have you read? What movies have you seen on the subject?
How do you view the suffering in the world?
Start with the easy ones, eh?
If consensus belief was that we inhabit a simulation / dream / matrix would you be the minority claiming that in fact reality really is real?
Yes.
Do you vote?
Yes.
...
Re: How far down the rabbit hole do you go?
Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:46 pm
by KUAN
bph wrote:
Curious... for those of you who chose "This whole thing is a simulation / dream / matrix", how does that belief effect you? How do you view the suffering in the world? Do you vote? Why do you get up in the morning? How do you experience a beautiful sunset? What is your search for truth like? Do you search for the truth? Do you carry on as though everything were "real" and not a simulation/dream/matrix? If so, are you sure you really believe it? Do you feel you are more or less cynical/optimistic than the rest of us consensus reality folks? How do you maintain purpose in life? What is your purpose? How are your ethics effected by this belief? If consensus belief was that we inhabit a simulation / dream / matrix would you be the minority claiming that in fact reality really is real? How long have you believed this? How did you arrive at your belief? What books on the subject have you read? What movies have you seen on the subject?
Quote:
How do you view the suffering in the world?
Start with the easy ones, eh?
Quote:
If consensus belief was that we inhabit a simulation / dream / matrix would you be the minority claiming that in fact reality really is real?
